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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Russia 2014 solution: citizenship plus $$$ for NA players to play for Russian NT...

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Old
03-02-2010, 07:06 PM
  #51
Davebo
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They don't need Canadian players.

They need Canadian coaching.

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03-02-2010, 07:27 PM
  #52
chopkins
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Add Dale Begg-Smith to your list of athletes. He left Canada because he wasn't allowed to run some software or something here and set it up in Australia. Won a silver in moguls.

Anyways, I doubt any Canadians or Americans are greedy enough to take money from a country they have no affiliation to in order to play in the Olympics.

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03-02-2010, 07:30 PM
  #53
Vladiator
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This idea is just ridiculous. We didn't lose because the players are that bad. Individually, our defenders better are better than many of Slovakia's, Czech, Swidish, Finish, and even American defenders. They just had an autrocious tournament. All of them, including those who play in NHL and who are considered to be good players by North Americans, e.g. Gonchar and Markov. Same goes to forwards.

The 7th place is not where Russia should be. That was one off situation. No need to overreact.

I would never support any poached foreigners in our team. I would rather us to lose with a team full of Russians than to win with a team of Russians/Canadians/Americans. This is not football or basketball, where we have never been that good. In hockey, we have history, traditions and victories. This tournament has been a disappointment, and we'll need to analyse why that happened and improve where we need to. By ourselves.

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03-02-2010, 07:37 PM
  #54
Canuck21t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
Any American or Canadian good enough to make the Russian team likely already played for their countries at the WJC and would thus be ineligible.
You can change countries after the WJC. Once you play for a country at the WC though then that's it, no more change.

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03-02-2010, 07:38 PM
  #55
Zine
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That Kevin Dallman guy said he might be interested in playing for the Kazakhstan national team.

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03-02-2010, 08:00 PM
  #56
almostawake
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Players, nope, not going to happen.

A coach, IMO this is an avenue that Russia should look at.

Most of Russia's players are coached by North American coaches, in a North American style of game.

I think it is pretty hard for them to adjust to a Russian style coach for a 2 week tournament. I also don't feel like they have much respect the coach.

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03-02-2010, 10:23 PM
  #57
finchster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
That Kevin Dallman guy said he might be interested in playing for the Kazakhstan national team.
No Problems with Kevin Dallman playing for Kazakhstan, he couldn't make Team Canada 10 or, team Russia 10. Generally players who swtich are the players not good enough for their nations and it improves the nation they moved to hockey system. I don't think there will ever be high profile poaching

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03-03-2010, 02:07 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
You can change countries after the WJC. Once you play for a country at the WC though then that's it, no more change.
No, you can still change after a WC.

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03-03-2010, 02:17 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
...and I am not talking about marginal players like Darcy Verot.

I can easily imagine this happening, with Russian Hockey Federation going after decent Canada or US D-men, who would make 2nd or 3rd teams in their respective countries. While this will not cure all of their current and inevitable future defensive pains, Russia may still become stronger at the blueline.

Changing nationalities (only as a formality, they would still keep their original citizenship) is not uncommon in other sports. This year, a Russian-born female biathlete won Olympic gold for Slovakia, and I remember a Nordic-born skier racing for Spain some years ago. And there are more than a few cases in international soccer (mostly involving African or LA players).

Would such thing be possible? Discuss.
just one word -RUBBISH

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03-03-2010, 02:19 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Vladsky View Post
I agree, but 2014 is too close to allow for any major defensive talent to come up to compete on best-on-best level, and I can easily imagine Russian hockey bosses swallow their pride, rather than run the risk of not winning it in Sochi.
Kulikov,Voinov and Goncharov are definitly good ones from new generation.

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03-03-2010, 02:20 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Vladiator View Post
This idea is just ridiculous. We didn't lose because the players are that bad. Individually, our defenders better are better than many of Slovakia's, Czech, Swidish, Finish, and even American defenders. They just had an autrocious tournament. All of them, including those who play in NHL and who are considered to be good players by North Americans, e.g. Gonchar and Markov. Same goes to forwards.

The 7th place is not where Russia should be. That was one off situation. No need to overreact.

I would never support any poached foreigners in our team. I would rather us to lose with a team full of Russians than to win with a team of Russians/Canadians/Americans. This is not football or basketball, where we have never been that good. In hockey, we have history, traditions and victories. This tournament has been a disappointment, and we'll need to analyse why that happened and improve where we need to. By ourselves.
i would sign here. people are just getting senile here.

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03-03-2010, 02:23 AM
  #62
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It's not that common in soccer to have a foreign coach, most of the top nations wouldn't do it. When England did it it caused strong media criticism as well. It's usually the crappy nations who need assistance from outsiders who do it and that happens in hockey as well.
I don't know... 7 of the top 20 nations in the (admittedly stupid) FIFA world rankings are managed by foreigners including, for the moment, Russia. I think England has ushered in an era where it's about finding the best manager for the team... situations like the one in Argentina only exist in hockey.

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03-03-2010, 03:15 AM
  #63
Diamonddog01
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The Swiss situation is totally different. Those players play and live in Switzerland. What the OP is suggesting is more akin to poaching.
I was alluding to having a NA coach on the Russian team, not poaching players and giving them citizenship.

Coaching was a big factor for both Russia and Sweden, and I don't see why hiring at least one NA coach, even as an assistant, is an issue.

KHL teams have done it, and now national teams have done it. Russia hasn't done much in the Olympics since they started allowing NHL players to play in them, they need to change things up a bit if they want better resutls.

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03-03-2010, 05:59 AM
  #64
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Russia - learn from Switzerland, the team that almost defeated both Canada and USA and kept both teams within one goal into the 3rd period.

Defense and teamplay can be taught by proper coaching. None of this KHL crap.

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03-03-2010, 07:51 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Coaching was a big factor for both Russia and Sweden, and I don't see why hiring at least one NA coach, even as an assistant, is an issue.
The Swedish coach BÅG won the Olympics, why would he be any worse than an NA coach?

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03-03-2010, 11:13 AM
  #66
Lauro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I don't know... 7 of the top 20 nations in the (admittedly stupid) FIFA world rankings are managed by foreigners including, for the moment, Russia. I think England has ushered in an era where it's about finding the best manager for the team... situations like the one in Argentina only exist in hockey.
No soccer power - Brazil, Germany, Italy or Argentina - would do this. So Russian hockey won´t.

(Yes, England had Eriksson, but I wouldn´t call them a soccer power. One WC at home - not to speak of the "Wembley goal" - and a fourth place plus two third places at the European Championships...)

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03-03-2010, 01:08 PM
  #67
Drake1588
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On the subject of foreign coaches and national teams, the Swiss federation has reportedly hired Andy Murray today, to replace Ralph Krueger as Swiss national coach.

A few years back, Glen Hanlon did some coaching with the Belarus team.

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03-03-2010, 01:17 PM
  #68
Siberian
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Again. Russia lost only once in regular time in its last 38 games at IIHF level. This is a hockey domination similar to the domination of great Soviet teams. Almost the same Switzerland team was beaten by Russia at the last Worlds 6:0, made Swiss panic like there is no tomorrow with one player scoring a goal in his own net.

I believe the proper analysis of team Russia at the Olympics must be conducted. Obviously the small ice has way more differences than Russia previously thought.

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03-03-2010, 01:41 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Again. Russia lost only once in regular time in its last 38 games at IIHF level. This is a hockey domination similar to the domination of great Soviet teams.
It's not even remotely close to those legendary Soviet teams. Firstly a loss is a loss regardless of whether it's regular time or overtime. Secondly, how many of those 38 IIHF games were in World Championships which are fairly insignificant compared to the olympics? I wouldn't trade 1 Olympic Gold medal for 10 World Championships.

I don't think Russia should panic, but 0 wins in the last 4 olympics has to be a big concern. Winning in Sochi should be a huge focus for this team, with the right preparation I think they can do it - they just need to focus on team defense IMO.

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03-03-2010, 02:24 PM
  #70
Siberian
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Originally Posted by thomasincanada View Post
It's not even remotely close to those legendary Soviet teams. Firstly a loss is a loss regardless of whether it's regular time or overtime. Secondly, how many of those 38 IIHF games were in World Championships which are fairly insignificant compared to the olympics? I wouldn't trade 1 Olympic Gold medal for 10 World Championships.

I don't think Russia should panic, but 0 wins in the last 4 olympics has to be a big concern. Winning in Sochi should be a huge focus for this team, with the right preparation I think they can do it - they just need to focus on team defense IMO.
Overtime losses didn't exist in the IIHF competitions when Soviet team dominated. OTL means it was a tie game after 60 minutes and would have been a tie if the rules weren't changed.

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03-03-2010, 02:46 PM
  #71
thomasincanada
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Overtime losses didn't exist in the IIHF competitions when Soviet team dominated. OTL means it was a tie game after 60 minutes and would have been a tie if the rules weren't changed.
Changing the rules for overtime doesn't change the fact that Russia has not won in the olympics in over 20 years. This to me is why they are nothing like the old USSR teams.

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03-03-2010, 02:53 PM
  #72
Siberian
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Originally Posted by thomasincanada View Post
Changing the rules for overtime doesn't change the fact that Russia has not won in the olympics in over 20 years. This to me is why they are nothing like the old USSR teams.
Russian Hockey had been in funk for 15 years - from 1993 to 2008 no gold at the Worlds, medalled only three times in that spun with 1 silver and two bronzes. It's only in the last three years Russia started winning the games against top opposition with consistency. So to expect Russia to win the Olympics in that spun is a little overestimating.

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03-03-2010, 02:57 PM
  #73
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Not that they need more fire power, but it would make sense to get players that aren't represented like Kopitar and Antropov to play for them

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03-03-2010, 03:01 PM
  #74
thomasincanada
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Russian Hockey had been in funk for 15 years - from 1993 to 2008 no gold at the Worlds, medalled only three times in that spun with 1 silver and two bronzes. It's only in the last three years Russia started winning the games against top opposition with consistency. So to expect Russia to win the Olympics in that spun is a little overestimating.
This is all true - but that is why the "This is a hockey domination similar to the domination of great Soviet teams" comment you made didn't make any sense to me.

Russia can be great again, and possibly will, but they still have some work to do. You can't blame their olympic performance on the ice alone.

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03-03-2010, 03:07 PM
  #75
Siberian
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Originally Posted by thomasincanada View Post
This is all true - but that is why the "This is a hockey domination similar to the domination of great Soviet teams" comment you made didn't make any sense to me.

Russia can be great again, and possibly will, but they still have some work to do. You can't blame their olympic performance on the ice alone.
Do you have reading difficulties? I am talking about the last 38 games where Russia lost only one game in regular time - this is very like the Soviet teams of the early 80-es. These 38 games fall on the last 3-4 years. If Russia showed these type of numbers in the last 20 years consistently - trust me, Russia would have had some Olympic gold.

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