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Is a Canada vs. US summit series a good idea?

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Old
03-03-2010, 02:31 AM
  #26
Walkingthroughforest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan MacLeod View Post
Gordie Howe??

It counts dude. And the Soviets whooped our ass.
A 46 year old Gordie Howe.
It wasn't best on best. No Esposito, No Orr, No Dryden, No Dionne, No Lafleur, No Peter Mahovlich, No Clarke, No Parent, No Potvin.

It was what it was, but it definitely doesn't stand in the books of best on best Canada-Russia hockey.

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03-03-2010, 02:50 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole435 View Post
A 46 year old Gordie Howe.
It wasn't best on best. No Esposito, No Orr, No Dryden, No Dionne, No Lafleur, No Peter Mahovlich, No Clarke, No Parent, No Potvin.

It was what it was, but it definitely doesn't stand in the books of best on best Canada-Russia hockey.
46-year-old Howe had 7 points in 8 games and was tied for 3rd out of all players.

We lost man. You're no different than the Russians that say 72 wasn't for real since their best player was destroyed by Clarke.

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03-03-2010, 02:55 AM
  #28
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Calling anything involving all-NHL players a new "Summit Series" is stupid ... you can't recreate that tournament; don't try.

We already have a decent international competition in the World Championships; Olympics every four for best-on-best is good enough. An Under-20 tournament might be fun, but we have World Juniors tournaments that involves the US and Canada ... and a bunch of other good teams.

Less is more ... let's all enjoy these Olympics for what they were and move on to more important things: like how Dallas is going to beat Atlanta in the finals in June.

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03-03-2010, 02:59 AM
  #29
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No, screw that. What made this so great was having to go through all the different teams. A 1 vs 1 series is stupid... back in the day is was great because it was basically only 2 elite nations, that is not the case anymore. The only reason the Super Series(2007) was good is because Canada vs Russia is the best all-time rivalry. Its and ode to the past and reflects the history of the great rivalry.... Even then the super series was a mismatch


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03-03-2010, 08:32 AM
  #30
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No. LOL
A Canada cup invitational in two years would be great though.

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03-03-2010, 08:36 AM
  #31
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I would love to see a 7 game series between the US and Canada every year in September.

2013- 7 games USA Canada mens
2014 -Olympics
2015- 7 games US juniors-Canada juniors
2016 - Canada Cup -screw the world cup
repeat forever

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Old
03-03-2010, 06:07 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rometiklan View Post
You may be correct. When it's all said and done, we may very well end up looking back on it negatively. On the other hand, I prefer to think of how potentially earth-shattering a summit series could be and we'll all look back on it as a benchmark in the rivalry between our 2 nations.

Given the very real possibility that NHL players will no longer be participating in the 2014 Olympics, that will be one less international tournament for NHLers to meet. Staging a summit series will make up for that. Imagine a best of 5 or 7 playoff format for the summit series. It would be pretty intense. There is a whole new generation who never knew the 1972 Summit series against the Russians. A Canada-USA Summit would define the state of hockey for another generation.
IF it comes to that, which I don't think it will (The NHL isn't going to risk losing players like Ovechkin, who are going to go to the Olympics whether the league wants them or not), then you may have a point, and we'll discuss it then because the circumstances would give some reason for it. Pointless to suggest it now, though.

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03-03-2010, 06:27 PM
  #33
Walkingthroughforest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan MacLeod View Post
46-year-old Howe had 7 points in 8 games and was tied for 3rd out of all players.

We lost man. You're no different than the Russians that say 72 wasn't for real since their best player was destroyed by Clarke.
That was part of the series, it happened in it.
There was not one player in the NHL that year playing in that series.
There happened to be a few superstars on that team, but after that it really was WHA fodder.

The Russians that say 72 didn't count because Clarke hurt Kharlamov, don't make sense because hockey is a team game. But the team Canada iced in 74 wasn't a good enough team to win, because we didn't have any of the best players dressed.
Half of the Canadiens would have been on that team, as well as half the Bruins.

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03-03-2010, 06:27 PM
  #34
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this series would be a chance for americans to prove that they are at par with Canadian hockey..i don't believe a tournament where you play one game proves much..a 7 game series would be unreal..

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03-03-2010, 06:28 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
Given the ratings for the gold medal game in both countries and the fact that many American's are now claiming that they have dethroned the Russians and now are Canada's main rival, I think this wouldn't be such a bad idea.

As a Canadian I really want to see if the American's can give us a run for our money in a 7-9 game series. I would probably say not but then again the Russians surprised us in '72.
The USA have been Canada's top rival since probably 1991.

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03-03-2010, 07:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
The USA have been Canada's top rival since probably 1991.
i respectfully disagree

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03-03-2010, 10:24 PM
  #37
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You cant fabricate a series like this...it just doesnt work.

This type of thing could potentially happen but I think its kind of far away right now.

For it to happen it has to happen on its own, but how?

1. US must over time rise as a top 2 hockey nation.

2. US would likely have to devastate Canada atleast once in a serious "deciding" game in international competition. Both 2002 and 2010 Olympic finals are good examples. The world junior loss this year counts in the US favour but not does not carry as much weight.

3. Fierce rivalry. With guys like Ryan Kesler, it becomes feasible.

4. US must seriously begin to claim they are ahead of Canada in hockey, and the hockey world would likely have to agree that its possible. And they will when or if it happens.

5. A Challenge.

Perhaps this happens by 2030.

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03-03-2010, 10:42 PM
  #38
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would say no to a summit series.. but this made me think that if the NHL ever has an extended lockout again it would be interesting to see if they could drum up enough interest and financing to host a major international competition. (say pitting 6-8 teams against each other in best of 3 series)

Would have been spectacular to have had something like that going on during the last lockout. Hell, use the money raised to fund youth hockey across the globe.

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Old
03-03-2010, 11:35 PM
  #39
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No on a summit. I would like to see a Canada Cup series in 2 years though. An 8 team tournament with CAN, USA, SWE, FIN, RUS, CZH, SLV, BLR. That would be exciting. Could stage some of the early games in the US.

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03-03-2010, 11:39 PM
  #40
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No at least not for a few years. If US can keep it up then go for it

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03-04-2010, 12:05 AM
  #41
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With the 2014 games in question as far as NHL player go we may see this on a professional level in time..

To be honest the USA has a lot to prove in international hockey, beating the Russians in 1980 and the Canadians in the non medal round of the 2010 Olympics mean nothing these days.. (note: every big four sport fan I talked to said the USA was not likely to beat the same top ranked team twice in a short 7 game multi country tournament such as the Olympics).


The USA is clearly on par with Canada and getting better every year, the days of Canada thinking they will win every international competition is over. That said Canada is tough but not only is the USA getting better so is the world.

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03-04-2010, 12:22 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerRed View Post
I'd like to see a version similar to what we did with the Russians back in 2007, our best Under 20 players.
Exactly what I was thinking. Instead of highlighting the greatness of hockey, one team gets pulverized back to the stone age. That could be a mess.

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03-04-2010, 12:27 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcarnegie View Post
No at least not for a few years. If US can keep it up then go for it
Are you serious? 10 million USA 3 year old boys and girls are skating as I speak....in time, in time...

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03-04-2010, 12:30 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
i respectfully disagree
Well, the last I looked Russia has few colleges...even your boys play in the USA college system... The USA is your top competition currently and for the foreseeable future like it or not.

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03-04-2010, 01:02 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
With the 2014 games in question as far as NHL player go we may see this on a professional level in time..

To be honest the USA has a lot to prove in international hockey, beating the Russians in 1980 and the Canadians in the non medal round of the 2010 Olympics mean nothing these days.. (note: every big four sport fan I talked to said the USA was not likely to beat the same top ranked team twice in a short 7 game multi country tournament such as the Olympics).


The USA is clearly on par with Canada and getting better every year, the days of Canada thinking they will win every international competition is over. That said Canada is tough but not only is the USA getting better so is the world.
1- the US is not on par with Canada because of a 5-3 game where Brodeur let in 3 bad goals. 9 times out of 10 Luongo doesn't allow any of those goals and he didn't in the final. They are closer however than the Russians because they play as a team. Talent wise, the Russians, if they ever figure that aspect out, are better than the US.

2- Canada hasn't thought they could win every tournament since they lost to the US in '96. Earth became very clear when the final whistle blew. Since then the US has failed to live up to that far more often than Canada, and Canada is beatable, as history has shown in tournaments since. Don't allow a bunch of Canadian teens to cloud reality because they spend all their time tossing teen angst insults toward the south. We aren't all under the illusion we're the best at anything, including hockey. We are however, the country to beat more times than not, like the US in basketball. Both can, and have been beaten, and they are still the team to beat.

3- If you take a look at the world, at this very moment, only Canada, US, and Russia are spitting out young talent on a yearly basis that look to be elite. Nothing against Sweden, Finland, Czechoslovakia, or Slovakia, but their teams are aging and it'll be a couple years before they do catch up to the talent coming out of the previous 3. Each has a couple guys that look great, but that is the problem. There's just a couple. As a percentage of players enrolled, it is amazing Russia is as good as they are. If that changes, both Canada and the US would be in serious trouble.

You can argue any point I made, I actually expect it, but none is based on where I live, my nationality, or my intentions. I am in fact, a Russian living in Canada. I won't insult you by saying some of my best friends are Americans. They aren't. I do however respect the US and their ability to always put up a great fight even with less talent, and a silver medal this year proves just that, but don't be fooled, they have less talent.

One other thing, no on the summit series. World cup or the Olympics is just fine

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03-04-2010, 01:06 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nogoalov View Post
1- the US is not on par with Canada because of a 5-3 game where Brodeur let in 3 bad goals. 9 times out of 10 Luongo doesn't allow any of those goals and he didn't in the final. They are closer however than the Russians because they play as a team. Talent wise, the Russians, if they ever figure that aspect out, are better than the US.

2- Canada hasn't thought they could win every tournament since they lost to the US in '96. Earth became very clear when the final whistle blew. Since then the US has failed to live up to that far more often than Canada, and Canada is beatable, as history has shown in tournaments since. Don't allow a bunch of Canadian teens to cloud reality because they spend all their time tossing teen angst insults toward the south. We aren't all under the illusion we're the best at anything, including hockey. We are however, the country to beat more times than not, like the US in basketball. Both can, and have been beaten, and they are still the team to beat.

3- If you take a look at the world, at this very moment, only Canada, US, and Russia are spitting out young talent on a yearly basis that look to be elite. Nothing against Sweden, Finland, Czechoslovakia, or Slovakia, but their teams are aging and it'll be a couple years before they do catch up to the talent coming out of the previous 3. Each has a couple guys that look great, but that is the problem. There's just a couple. As a percentage of players enrolled, it is amazing Russia is as good as they are. If that changes, both Canada and the US would be in serious trouble.

You can argue any point I made, I actually expect it, but none is based on where I live, my nationality, or my intentions. I am in fact, a Russian living in Canada. I won't insult you by saying some of my best friends are Americans. They aren't. I do however respect the US and their ability to always put up a great fight even with less talent, and a silver medal this year proves just that, but don't be fooled, they have less talent.

One other thing, no on the summit series. World cup or the Olympics is just fine
Well, we will see.... stick around.

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Old
03-04-2010, 01:09 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Well, the last I looked Russia has few colleges...even your boys play in the USA college system... The USA is your top competition currently and for the foreseeable future like it or not.
Last i looked the Russians play in the CHL, just like the Americans do.

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Old
03-04-2010, 01:25 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Last i looked the Russians play in the CHL, just like the Americans do.
A few (Russians that is), as is the case for some from all over the world if they are good enough. But in the end the USA system is gaining ground even in light of the Canadian jrs offering college opportunities...

Trust me, there is nothing sweeter than playing for Michigan, Boston College or Ohio State or many other top 50 USA hockey schools... in time...in time.

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03-04-2010, 01:28 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Dalton View Post
No. LOL
A Canada cup invitational in two years would be great though.
Invitational tournaments suck.

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Old
03-04-2010, 01:43 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
A few (Russians that is), as is the case for some from all over the world if they are good enough. But in the end the USA system is gaining ground even in light of the Canadian jrs offering college opportunities...

Trust me, there is nothing sweeter than playing for Michigan, Boston College or Ohio State or many other top 50 USA hockey schools... in time...in time.
Which school is #50? I'd like to check out the % of NHL players coming out of there. Actually, what is #20. Heck, give me #10

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