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Keep Clowe away from Pavs!!!

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Old
03-03-2010, 04:16 PM
  #26
Eid Ma Clack Shaw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharksAddict View Post
Comparing Seto to Cheech is laughable. Seto has youth on his side, and more importantly, is a very good skater.
Can also create his own chances and surprisingly lays down some huge hits.

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03-03-2010, 04:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by blackholesun View Post
Clowe gets points when he gets into the ugly areas of the ice. He doesn't do that with Pavs. What sucks is that Pavs has a really nice shot but it's always Pavs going to the front of the net and Clowe holding it along the sideboards. Mehhh.
Clowe is better at using his body to hold the puck though. Pavs gets pushed around more often when he does that.

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03-03-2010, 04:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheGooooch View Post
Clowe is better at using his body to hold the puck though. Pavs gets pushed around more often when he does that.
What if we clowened Clowe and then had one of them go to the net and the other along the half boards and Pavs open for shots?

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03-03-2010, 04:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
Am I mis-remembering that before Malhotra got hurt, we had switched the lines such that the 2nd was Manny-Pavs-Seto, and the 3rd was Clowe-Nichol-Ort, and when that switch was made there was secondary scoring all over the place? Like, that got messed up when Manny was hurt, but he's back now, so why aren't we running with those lines in the middle, and the usual top line (or swapping Seto with Patty if it seems worth it)? They were effective, and I don't recall them losing effectiveness until Mitchell was injured.
You mis-remember nothing. The one people who conveniently forget that are the ones who overrate Clowe and are just dying to see him get on the first line. There are *still* some who think he can be our version of Tomas Holmstrom.

Clowe fits very nicely on a third line with Scott Nichol and Jed Ortmeyer. If anything, there is (should be?) more of a concern in getting Seto scoring again (consistently!) than Clowe.


Last edited by ChompChomp: 03-03-2010 at 04:43 PM.
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03-03-2010, 07:04 PM
  #30
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You mis-remember nothing. The one people who conveniently forget that are the ones who overrate Clowe and are just dying to see him get on the first line. There are *still* some who think he can be our version of Tomas Holmstrom.

Clowe fits very nicely on a third line with Scott Nichol and Jed Ortmeyer. If anything, there is (should be?) more of a concern in getting Seto scoring again (consistently!) than Clowe.
The fact that Clowe fits nicely on the 3rd line and doesn't fit and/or work on either of the top two lines is a problem. If that continues to be the case through the end of this season, I think you can kiss Clowe goodbye in the off-season. A 3.625 million dollar 3rd liner is a humongous waste. And he was fine as the Holmstrom-type player for the team when he was going to the front. I only want him up top to try and have him with someone that will force him to not play the game he's been playing.

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03-03-2010, 07:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The fact that Clowe fits nicely on the 3rd line and doesn't fit and/or work on either of the top two lines is a problem. If that continues to be the case through the end of this season, I think you can kiss Clowe goodbye in the off-season. A 3.625 million dollar 3rd liner is a humongous waste.
He would absolutely be overpaid for playing on the 3rd line, but I'd much rather him be that than bring down the top 2 lines with his play.

I think he's almost a guaranteed goner in the offseason with Pavelski and Seto being RFA's. Not to mention trying to re-sign Patty and possibly Nabby.

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03-03-2010, 07:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Pavs and Clowe aren't very far apart in scoring.

Pavelski PPG: .75
Clowe PPG: .65
And if you exclude Clowe's horrible start (0-2-2 in his first 13 games) - he's been scoring at a .76 PPG pace since Oct 30.

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03-03-2010, 07:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
And if you exclude Clowe's horrible start (0-2-2 in his first 13 games) - he's been scoring at a .76 PPG pace since Oct 30.
But because he is Clowe that PPG doesn't matter.

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03-03-2010, 07:43 PM
  #34
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If we're going to use PPG as an argument, then no one should ever bash Thornton again. Keep it consistent boys.

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03-03-2010, 07:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGooooch View Post
But because he is Clowe that PPG doesn't matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SharksAddict View Post
If we're going to use PPG as an argument, then no one should ever bash Thornton again. Keep it consistent boys.
I don't bash Thornton. And I happen to think Clowe is one of the most valuable players on the team.

It seems like you have to be small, speedy and physical to gain any respect on these boards. Basically Scott Nichol. You have to be Scott Nichol to be respected on HF.

Even Mitchell has plummeted in the HF respect chart due to him not being as fast and physical people remembered him being. He is still small though, so Clowe is definitely worse than him.

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03-03-2010, 07:55 PM
  #36
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Clowe is a turnover machine and refuses to do what he does best (use his size in front of the net). Has nothing to do with his lack of speed. If speed was such an issue, Cheechoo would have been hated on these boards.

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03-03-2010, 07:57 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SharksAddict View Post
Clowe is a turnover machine and refuses to do what he does best (use his size in front of the net). Has nothing to do with his lack of speed. If speed was such an issue, Cheechoo would have been hated on these boards.
He refused? As if someone had asked him to and he declined?

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03-03-2010, 08:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
He refused? As if someone had asked him to and he declined?
I've yet to see him do it all year, other than in minor spurts here and there. I have a hard time believing TMac wouldn't want him using his size in front of the net. In fact, I remember that topic coming up quite often when Clowe was struggling mightily to start the year.

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03-03-2010, 08:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SharksAddict View Post
Clowe is a turnover machine and refuses to do what he does best (use his size in front of the net). Has nothing to do with his lack of speed. If speed was such an issue, Cheechoo would have been hated on these boards.
****... i forgot "heart". you gotta have heart.

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03-03-2010, 08:03 PM
  #40
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Sorry, there is no way that Clowe plays the game he does without the coach's consent. Unless McLellan is the worst coach of all time, and has absolutely no control over his players then Clowe has been given the green light to play exactly the way he does.

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03-03-2010, 08:07 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Sorry, there is no way that Clowe plays the game he does without the coach's consent. Unless McLellan is the worst coach of all time, and has absolutely no control over his players then Clowe has been given the green light to play exactly the way he does.
I'm not buying that argument. McLellan should be fired on the spot if he is instructing Clowe to play the way he is. Clowe is built to be a power forward, not a playmaker. Pavelski is more than capable of being the playmaker on that line.

In addition, watch how many times Clowe enters the zone, delays, and passes back to the point instead of dumping the puck in or putting it on net. A lot of the time those very decisions he makes lead to high turnovers. Its like Drew and the coaching staff always say, play a north/south game, not an east/west game.

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03-03-2010, 08:16 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SharksAddict View Post
I'm not buying that argument. McLellan should be fired on the spot if he is instructing Clowe to play the way he is. Clowe is built to be a power forward, not a playmaker. Pavelski is more than capable of being the playmaker on that line.

In addition, watch how many times Clowe enters the zone, delays, and passes back to the point instead of dumping the puck in or putting it on net. A lot of the time those very decisions he makes lead to high turnovers. Its like Drew and the coaching staff always say, play a north/south game, not an east/west game.
Yeah, I won't defend his turnovers high in the zone, nor would I do the same for Boyle - who's turnover cost the Sharks a goal last night.

But I think your perception of what Clowe is built to do is incongruent to what he excels at doing. Battling on the boards, hitting and making plays to the net. Pavelski has proven himself a goal scorer, not a playmaker. Their collective statistics illustrate it pretty clearly.

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03-03-2010, 08:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Sorry, there is no way that Clowe plays the game he does without the coach's consent. Unless McLellan is the worst coach of all time, and has absolutely no control over his players then Clowe has been given the green light to play exactly the way he does.
I cannot provide a link but I am fairly certain in the post-game interviews MC mentioned a couple of times that he'd like him to in front of the net more.

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03-03-2010, 08:45 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
Yeah, I won't defend his turnovers high in the zone, nor would I do the same for Boyle - who's turnover cost the Sharks a goal last night.

But I think your perception of what Clowe is built to do is incongruent to what he excels at doing. Battling on the boards, hitting and making plays to the net. Pavelski has proven himself a goal scorer, not a playmaker. Their collective statistics illustrate it pretty clearly.
How is Pavelski so much more the goal scorer when he had 25 goals last year and Clowe had 22? This year, the gap is slightly larger because of Pavs missing some games but not so much that Clowe's a playmaker and Pavs' is the sniper. In reality, both are actually quite good at both passing and scoring when they want.

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03-03-2010, 09:59 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
How is Pavelski so much more the goal scorer when he had 25 goals last year and Clowe had 22? This year, the gap is slightly larger because of Pavs missing some games but not so much that Clowe's a playmaker and Pavs' is the sniper. In reality, both are actually quite good at both passing and scoring when they want.
I'm not sure where I made it sound like they could only do one thing, in fact that's what I'm arguing against here in Clowe. He is not a front of the net pylon, garbage goal scorer. It's shocking to me that people don't realize his talent extends beyond that.

And I just refuse to believe that Clowe is only playing that way because he enjoys it more. He simply doesn't hold the clout that Thornton does. Maybe I'm giving McLellan too much credit, and he is not able to control the way his players play. Maybe he wants Clowe to be Holmstrom and he won't?

But that sounds pretty far fetched.

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03-03-2010, 10:08 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
I'm not sure where I made it sound like they could only do one thing, in fact that's what I'm arguing against here in Clowe. He is not a front of the net pylon, garbage goal scorer. It's shocking to me that people don't realize his talent extends beyond that.

And I just refuse to believe that Clowe is only playing that way because he enjoys it more. He simply doesn't hold the clout that Thornton does. Maybe I'm giving McLellan too much credit, and he is not able to control the way his players play. Maybe he wants Clowe to be Holmstrom and he won't?

But that sounds pretty far fetched.
he was ripping it up, the 1st half of the season before he got his contract extension. going hard to the net, hitting, fighting, standing in front of the net. he was the prototypical power forward. then he got a foot or leg, or knee injury (can't remember exactly which one), then when he came back his game changed and became more of an perimeter player like thornton, trying for the fancy passes and he stopped altogether going to the front of the net, and being that power forward type player which made him so successful in the nhl.

he got his contract, and he's still not being the power forward. so the excuse about his injury that i used at the start of the year, has been thrown out the window and now its just the way he wants to play.

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03-03-2010, 10:14 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
And if you exclude Clowe's horrible start (0-2-2 in his first 13 games) - he's been scoring at a .76 PPG pace since Oct 30.
That's a pretty sizable chunk of games to ignore, particularly if his 13 games to end the season are anything like his 13 games to start it...

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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The fact that Clowe fits nicely on the 3rd line and doesn't fit and/or work on either of the top two lines is a problem. If that continues to be the case through the end of this season, I think you can kiss Clowe goodbye in the off-season. A 3.625 million dollar 3rd liner is a humongous waste. And he was fine as the Holmstrom-type player for the team when he was going to the front. I only want him up top to try and have him with someone that will force him to not play the game he's been playing.
Hey, I don't care what line number he plays on or who he plays with if he can score consistently. Sure he would seem overpaid, but if he can get 60 points with Nichol and Ortmeyer, he should do it. As long as we keep Nichol and Ortmeyer this offseason.

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03-03-2010, 10:17 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by SactoShark View Post
I'm not sure where I made it sound like they could only do one thing, in fact that's what I'm arguing against here in Clowe. He is not a front of the net pylon, garbage goal scorer. It's shocking to me that people don't realize his talent extends beyond that.

And I just refuse to believe that Clowe is only playing that way because he enjoys it more. He simply doesn't hold the clout that Thornton does. Maybe I'm giving McLellan too much credit, and he is not able to control the way his players play. Maybe he wants Clowe to be Holmstrom and he won't?

But that sounds pretty far fetched.
When you said that Pavelski has proven himself to be the goal scorer and Clowe the playmaker. Also, players are creatures of habit. It's not all that uncommon for a coach to have to nag a player to do the same things over and over again because they tend to fall back to something else that's natural for them. It happens all the time with Thornton and the sideboards. Clowe and Thornton both have problems with high zone turnovers. All of the players have some form of puck management issues that are consistent errors that you come to expect from them.

It's not limited to those two either. Seto has the same involvement issues. McGinn when he's up. Marleau has aggressiveness and shooting issues. They refuse to dump the puck, the skill guys. The blue liners make a lot of the same defending zone turnovers. There's only so much a coach can do. Limit ice time is about it but he can't do that to more than maybe one or two guys in a game. And they don't have the room to bench anyone. How often do we still see Joe Thornton pull up at the blue line or the half boards or try a stupid little pass in his own zone trying to keep the puck on a change and turn it over?

It sounds far-fetched but it really is pretty common.

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03-03-2010, 10:55 PM
  #49
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Understood. What I have a problem believing is that the coaching staff wants Clowe to play like Holmstrom. I haven't seen that a single bit in Ryane's game, but most here seem to think that he is the prototypical, front of the net garbage goal scorer.

You would have to think that if the coaching staff was of the same view as this, they would bench Clowe indefinitely, because he doesn't remotely resemble that type of player when he hits the ice.

My opinion base on observation: Clowe can play inside and down low effectively. He is also very good on the perimeter and excellent along the boards. Pavelski has played fantastic in front of the net, with a great shot release in tight. When they play together, it is in fact Pavs role to go to the front, and Clowe's to stay along the boards on the perimeter.

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03-04-2010, 12:52 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by gregpalm76 View Post
Clowe-Thornton-Heatley
Marleau-Pavelski-Setoguchi
Nichol-Malhotra-Ortmeyer
Mcginn-Mitchell-Staubtiz

I think if we put Thornton with linemates (i.e. Clowe) that make him more responsible by moving his feet instead of coasting, he won't get too lazy and passive on us.
Smart person here. This is close to what I think is a good set up. Spread the top line, Marleau and Seto add speed and Pavs can either set up or score. Jumbo and Clowe are good down low and with the puck. Joe will find Clowe or Heater to score, and Joe and Clowe can take turns on the screen for Heatley. Speed into the zone is good but there are lots of players like Grier for instance, who are fast but wont help puck possession in the O zone. Bottom lines are good, especially if we bag Staubitz.

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