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moving up in the draft

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04-29-2004, 01:36 PM
  #1
Son of Steinbrenner
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moving up in the draft

our two first round picks and the rights to umberger to pittsburgh

2nd pick in the draft and a 5th round pick to the rangers

is it enough? i think without the first pick in the draft pittsburgh might just want to move out of the 2nd spot. umberger could either give pittsburgh a hometown discount or the pens get the second round pick for him. what does everybody think?

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04-29-2004, 01:46 PM
  #2
in the hall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
our two first round picks and the rights to umberger to pittsburgh

2nd pick in the draft and a 5th round pick to the rangers

is it enough? i think without the first pick in the draft pittsburgh might just want to move out of the 2nd spot. umberger could either give pittsburgh a hometown discount or the pens get the second round pick for him. what does everybody think?
i think that is enough but i also think we shouldnt go for it if that is the price

one top 6 pick and an additional first as well as a mid first valued prospect

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04-29-2004, 02:07 PM
  #3
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Rangers stay at #6 and select Ladd.
What do people see in Ladd that they don't like? He seems to be an unpopoular choice around here. He could might very well turn out to be the top 2-line LW of the future that the Rangers are lacking.
I can see Sather trying to move up their second 1st rounder to maybe in the teens.
Why don't the Rangers just sign RJ Umberger? How can the Rangers, being in their current situation not afford (risk.money) to sign RJ. He's another kid that could turn out to be a top 2-line player.
Sather has to do his HW. I can see him selecting Schremp or Olesz if they fall to #6, I'm a Ladd fan. I think he can develop into a real impact player.

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04-29-2004, 02:08 PM
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we'll lose the rights to umberger before the draft unless he is signed...so odds are the pens will be able to just sign him

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04-29-2004, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
we'll lose the rights to umberger before the draft unless he is signed...so odds are the pens will be able to just sign him

Exactly. The Rangers wouldn't have his rights to trade if he was unsigned by draft day. Change the player, SOS, to say...Lundmark ( :lol ) and you may make it work.

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04-29-2004, 03:22 PM
  #6
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We need LWs..but we also need a center...

Ladd doesn't have the upside of some of the other guys, tho he might be more of a sure thing.

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04-29-2004, 03:33 PM
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I'd rather keep what we have than give up that much for the #2. The #2 is no guarantee of anything, except that we'll get Malkin. There's no guarantee he'll be that player we want. I'd rather keep the #6 and the #26 as well as the 2nd we'll get for Umberger and get 3 bites at the apple.

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Old
04-29-2004, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
we'll lose the rights to umberger before the draft unless he is signed...so odds are the pens will be able to just sign him
You could do the trade b/f we lose his rights. But if i'm Penn why would i care about that part of the proposal. It seems to be common knowledge that we won't sign him, so if i'm Penn I'll wait it out.

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04-29-2004, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zestystrat
You could do the trade b/f we lose his rights. But if i'm Penn why would i care about that part of the proposal. It seems to be common knowledge that we won't sign him, so if i'm Penn I'll wait it out.
Actually Umberger's from the Pittsburgh region and has said he'd consider a hometown discount...

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04-29-2004, 08:36 PM
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Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron
Exactly. The Rangers wouldn't have his rights to trade if he was unsigned by draft day. Change the player, SOS, to say...Lundmark ( :lol ) and you may make it work.
why can't a deal be made before june 1st? i doubt pittsburgh wants to add a no heart less talent player like lundmark

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04-30-2004, 02:35 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
why can't a deal be made before june 1st? i doubt pittsburgh wants to add a no heart less talent player like lundmark

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04-30-2004, 10:12 AM
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zestystrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
Actually Umberger's from the Pittsburgh region and has said he'd consider a hometown discount...
All the more reason why if I'm Penn, I don't add his rights to any trade with the NYR. Why get less in a trade if he can be had after 6/1. Penn can't afford to make a bad trade, I think they have to hope they can get him after 6/1.

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04-30-2004, 10:36 AM
  #13
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Umberger is they type of player this organization needs to stay away from. He is greedy and all he cares about is money. Why would you ever take away a roster spot from a kid like Moore, Wiseman, Pruch or Immonen for that dumbazz. All the above have done is played hockey and produced without complaining while Umberger hasn't played hockey and has been sulking for over a year.

You have to ask yourself this about R.J. If he really believed he could be a high quality NHL player he would have to be the dumbest fool on the face of the planet not to want to play in New York when they are rebuilding because if he did anything positive at the NHL level the Rangers would probably be happy to throw money at him. The fact he is making these contract demands now tells me he is a career minor league player.

 
Old
04-30-2004, 10:44 AM
  #14
Shadowtron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
why can't a deal be made before june 1st? i doubt pittsburgh wants to add a no heart less talent player like lundmark

Itís possible. Iím saying if itís a draft day deal youíll have to change the player because RJ would be unrestricted. However, I donít see Pitts dealing for someone theyíd be able to get for free the day of the draft. Also, if the Rangers finally do sign RJ I donít see them dealing shortly after.

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04-30-2004, 11:22 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by zestystrat
All the more reason why if I'm Penn, I don't add his rights to any trade with the NYR. Why get less in a trade if he can be had after 6/1. Penn can't afford to make a bad trade, I think they have to hope they can get him after 6/1.
yeah but if the rangers trade umberger to pittsburgh the penguins can just do what the rangers wanted to do. sign umberger after june 1st and get the second round pick. pens get 2 first round picks a 2nd round pick and umberger while the rangers only give up 2 first round picks and a prospect that sather doesn't want to sign. we would still have 4 2nd round picks.

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04-30-2004, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
yeah but if the rangers trade umberger to pittsburgh the penguins can just do what the rangers wanted to do. sign umberger after june 1st and get the second round pick. pens get 2 first round picks a 2nd round pick and umberger while the rangers only give up 2 first round picks and a prospect that sather doesn't want to sign. we would still have 4 2nd round picks.
Second round picks are worth the same no matter how many of them we have.

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Old
04-30-2004, 04:11 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by HighlyRegardedRookie
Second round picks are worth the same no matter how many of them we have.
I wouldnt give up that much for Malkin when they could draft Schremp at #6, sign Umberger after June 1, have another 1st round pick and 5 2nd round picks. I would do that trade in a heartbeat with Washington for Ovechkin, he is the real deal.

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04-30-2004, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717
I wouldnt give up that much for Malkin when they could draft Schremp at #6, sign Umberger after June 1, have another 1st round pick and 5 2nd round picks. I would do that trade in a heartbeat with Washington for Ovechkin, he is the real deal.
I don't think it's worth the cost to move up. The prices being bandied about are just out of sight. EVERY ONE OF THESE GUYS IS A RISK. Paying too high a price to move up is exactly how we managed to get Pavel Brendl and lose Sundstrom, Cloutier, and a top 10 pick the next year.

I'm not high on Schremp. With the criticisms around him, I just get a certain "Terrell Owens" feel about him. Very talented, but even if he works out he may be more trouble than he's worth. Hockey is, much more than other sports, a TEAM sport, where everyone has to be on the same page and play unselfishly or the team will not be successful.

Oh, and FWIW, I hear that the "sign Umberger after June 1" idea is illegal and it would be shot down by the league. Basically, Umberger will be a free agent and can sign with any team... except us, unless no other team wants him. Bad faith dealing just won't cut it I'm afraid.

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Old
05-01-2004, 11:59 PM
  #19
charliemurphy
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Oh, and FWIW, I hear that the "sign Umberger after June 1" idea is illegal and it would be shot down by the league.
How can the league prove something like that? What type of evidence would be nedded? Just asking .
Definitley stay at #6.
Rangers should sign Umberger. How can they not afford to take a shot on this kid?

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