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Trade deadline is over and... Sather does nothing!

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Old
03-03-2010, 07:47 PM
  #201
UAGoalieGuy
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Greg Wyshynski (Puck Daddy) on Yahoo gave the Rangers a B- on their trade deadline moves:

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New York Rangers: Already made their epic move in acquiring Olli Jokinen before the Olympics, and tweaked the lineup with defenseman Anders Eriksson(notes) from the Coyotes. Another team whose bed was made well before the deadline. GRADE: B-
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl,225671

It's true. The Rangers made their moves before the Olympics where their acquisitions could have a bigger impact on the team, playing in 6 extra games, then waiting for today to make a move. 6 more games with an improved roster to gain much needed points to make the playoffs. Another analysis of the deadline from another writer who was doing winners/losers stated the Rangers were neither (can't find the link though).

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Old
03-03-2010, 08:32 PM
  #202
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I'd love to get Horton in the off-season...I'd be willing to part with Grachev in the package to get him. I think adding Horton to a line with a developing Dubi on LW and a short term deal for Jokinen would be a very productive 2nd line behind Prospal/Gaborik + whomever. Follow that with a 3rd line of Avery/Drury/Cally, and you start to put players in their proper positions.
I'm a Horton fan too. Power forwards due tend to take a little longer to develop. If Florida is willing to give up on him and I'm Sather I definitely am willing to move some quality assets to acquire him.

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03-03-2010, 09:00 PM
  #203
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I'm a Horton fan too. Power forwards due tend to take a little longer to develop. If Florida is willing to give up on him and I'm Sather I definitely am willing to move some quality assets to acquire him.

This organization has a hole at 2nd line RW. I prefer Cally in his role as quality 3rd liner. Horton is the perfect. And, since, I actually like the development we are seeing in Dubinsky this year - he could reach 20 goals in 69 games - and looks to be on his way to becoming a 2nd line LW with good size and the ability to use it, and given that I'm a bigger fan of Kreider, I'd be willing to part with Grachev from a position of depth - LW - to fill a need at RW.

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03-03-2010, 09:05 PM
  #204
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great job Slats
this dead line was dead i would not want to trade for any of those players besides we are not contenders nor should we be sellers nobody here wants to see us loose. even if we sneak in to the playoffs its worth it

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03-03-2010, 09:13 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
This organization has a hole at 2nd line RW. I prefer Cally in his role as quality 3rd liner. Horton is the perfect. And, since, I actually like the development we are seeing in Dubinsky this year - he could reach 20 goals in 69 games - and looks to be on his way to becoming a 2nd line LW with good size and the ability to use it, and given that I'm a bigger fan of Kreider, I'd be willing to part with Grachev from a position of depth - LW - to fill a need at RW.
While you're correct in acquiring more RW depth, I don't think it's a question of whether or not Callahan can handle those minutes or not, however, I'd address LW before RW, wouldn't you? I'd say a combination of Gaborik-Callahan is stronger than Avery-?, where there are no real natural LW's. Yeah, we have Dubi and Prospal who can play LW, but I prefer Prospal at center. Dubi... not so sure.

Regardless, I'd upgrade LW before RW. I believe Callahan is a 2nd liner (on this team at least).

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03-03-2010, 09:32 PM
  #206
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youre out of your mind if you think a team intentionally pissing away a playoff spot isnt a huge turnoff for their current players, and for their potential targets in free agency....absolutely out of your mind.
You're absolutely out of your mind if you think that for THIS team in THIS situation, making a half-cocked run at the playoffs is more important than getting whatever you can get for players that are not part of the future.

This team is going nowhere. You're afraid of wasting Lundqvist? This type of strategy will only ensure that his entire prime will be wasted.

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Originally Posted by BwayBshirt View Post
That's a big assumption you're making. Even you and those like yourself must acknowledge that.

Fact is, if the Rangers became sellers this year, as close as they are to making it in, they would have suffered a backlash publicly around the league and even in some mainstream circles that would have been more of a disaster than what they are doing now.

Hockey fans like us sit and laugh at Redden's contract. On the whole, it's not a huge blow to the team. But blowing things up when they are so close would incite heavy criticism. The Chicago White Sox had to live with the stigma of tanking back in 1997 for many, many years for example.
Of course it would incite heavy criticism, the majority of this team's fans don't have a clue about what's going on. All they care about is acquiring big name players and seeing instant results. But this is New York, and the tickets will sell.

Nearly ever person that is "in hockey" that I've spoken to in the last year or so agrees that until the Rangers rebuild, really rebuild, they're going nowhere. Then again, the same has been true for many years, not just the last one.

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This.

Kovalchuk spent his whole career playing for a mediocre Thrashers team. He would not want to join a team that sold of some its assets whilst they were fighting for a playoff spot because that could be him in taht situation following season if he chooses to sign there.

While Kovy does want big bucks IMO i'm pretty sure that's not all he cares about. He wants to play for a winner.
What? Pretty sure, wherever he signs, he's going to get some sort of no-trade clause. Besides, selling this year would be toward helping the future.

And from what I understand, the fact that this is NYC (and all the things that go along with that) is a lot more important to Kovalchuk than anything else. The same is true of LA, which I mention because I believe he will either be a King or a Ranger come this summer.

Again, if you all support this type of stance, then to me that signals that you not only enjoy seasons/teams like this one, or last year, but you are hungry for more of the same. I don't find derive much pleasure out of watching this team. It's a lottery team with a superstar goaltender, plain and simple. It's painful watching this team play. It's not a team, it's a couple of guys dragging along a big pile of steaming **** behind them.

I'd sarcastically say something like "let me know how much you all like it this time next year, when the same thing is happening," but knowing this fan base, you WILL like it next year, because these are the same arguments that have been made every year that Sather has been here, and even before then.

I've never seen people who love to get spoon fed ******** this much.

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03-03-2010, 09:56 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
.



Of course it would incite heavy criticism, the majority of this team's fans don't have a clue about what's going on. All they care about is acquiring big name players and seeing instant results. But this is New York, and the tickets will sell.

Nearly ever person that is "in hockey" that I've spoken to in the last year or so agrees that until the Rangers rebuild, really rebuild, they're going nowhere. Then again, the same has been true for many years, not just the last one.



.
Bull. This is also a recession. And just like Dolan having fired Knicks people over horrid attendance in the past, he would have made sweeping changes to the Rangers over the same thing.

It's great that "hockey people" understand the state & nature of this franchise. Now envision trying to sell that to everybody else. You know, the vast majority of people who actually pump money into the team. It would not fair so well I promise you. And the reputation would be damage badly.

In that instance, while the risk---and yes, any plan however much sense it might make to some is risky---might outweigh the status quo, that "might" is too much to commit to if you're think about $$$.

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Old
03-03-2010, 10:07 PM
  #208
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Hopefully Sather steps down this summer and hires Steve Yzerman. With Holland and Nill both in Detroit, there's no room for him long term, and as TSN said today, he's got to be the leading candidate for a GM job somewhere. We desperately need him.

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Old
03-03-2010, 10:15 PM
  #209
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There are many explanations to Sather not doing much. For starters other teams did not do much today and therefore less oppurtunity. Also cap world and many players we all want moved have massive cap hits. Also trades that might have materialzed did not go down even more so because of how Dubinsky played last night, dont think is that viable as Sather isnt that smart lol. Honestly he could just be hoping this teams makes a suprise run and saves his ass. Also moves were already made prior to this date. Who would be moved that could be. The only trade i wanted to see was Drury gone, after his stalk went slightly up during olympics, but obviosuly that was dreaming. As for Redden it is a far cry to expect him to be moved. I mean Prospal, Joks, are guys i guess he is going to run with or nobodey wanted them.

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Old
03-03-2010, 10:20 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by JKDR1 View Post
How many teams miss the playoffs for 7 years consecutively and are not light years better by now......oh thats right ,just the Rangers.
I can think of several -- Columbus, Atlanta, Florida Islanders and Phoenix.

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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
Prospal is a commodity... flat out. The guy is a bargain on the contract he's on and he's not a part of the long term plans of this org.

You move him because you can get tremendous value for him and this team isn't going to be made or broken with him.
Exactly what is tremendous value? Carolina couldn't get it for Ray Whitney. Nashville couldn't get it for Dan Hamhuis. I didn't see any first round draft choices or premium prospects change hands today. For all we know Sather was shopping his veterans and couldn't get a decent return. And a lot of the seconds that changed hands in the last week were late in the round or 2011 picks.

And finally, Sting my friend, I think you are one of the best posters on the forum (and I couldn't agrede more with your impassioned defenses of Drury) but you are thinking like a detached observer and not like a competitive athlete or manager. Competitors want to win now. Competitors think they can win now. Callahan, Lundqvist and the other pillars of this team would go crazy if they thought the Rangers were going to take a few years off to regroup and rebuild. The only way you can accomplish that kind of rebuild is to strip it down to the walls and have an ownership group with deep pockets and a lot of patience. The Rangers don't have the stomach to do a complete rebuild nor an owner that fits the profile. Trading a vital player (i.e. Prospal, Jokinen) for a 2nd round draft choice who has a 1 in 4 chance of being an NHL player 5 years from now isn't going to cut it.

This is the rebuild. The Rangers are playing 9 home grown players for the first time since the late 1980s. They have three rookies playing regularly. The system has many more players on the way. It's not been good enough yet and it sure has been compromised by some awful free agent signings and what I believe is a questionable coaching hire. There has been progress. I wish he had more hits at the draft table (the early 2000s were especially mediocre) and a better record of free agent signings, but while we might prefer different players, we would have likely pursued the same path to rebuild the team.


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Old
03-03-2010, 10:21 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by BwayBshirt View Post
Bull. This is also a recession. And just like Dolan having fired Knicks people over horrid attendance in the past, he would have made sweeping changes to the Rangers over the same thing.

It's great that "hockey people" understand the state & nature of this franchise. Now envision trying to sell that to everybody else. You know, the vast majority of people who actually pump money into the team. It would not fair so well I promise you. And the reputation would be damage badly.

In that instance, while the risk---and yes, any plan however much sense it might make to some is risky---might outweigh the status quo, that "might" is too much to commit to if you're think about $$$.
The Knicks have been openly rebuilding for 2-3 years now and not making money in the playoffs. So it's okay for them and not the Rangers?

And if he had made sweeping changes to the Rangers? That would be a good thing. So what's your point? That Sather isn't doing what's best for the team, just what's best for himself? I didn't need that pointed out to me, I think that's fairly obvious by the fact that this team continues to suck.

It's funny, the Chicago Blackhawks sucked for years. But now they're good, and all of a sudden, ticket sales aren't a problem. Imagine that, making money from the fans AND offering them a quality product.

The Pittsburgh Penguins almost MOVED, yet now there is no problem selling tickets.

How could you possibly damage the reputation of a team that hasn't been good in over 15 years and that never, ever comes close to being one of the best teams in the league? How could you damage the reputation of a team that is so flawed in it;s construction that it can't develop a consistent cycle in the opposition's zone from shift to shift in more than small handful of games throughout an 82 game season?

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Old
03-03-2010, 10:40 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
The Knicks have been openly rebuilding for 2-3 years now and not making money in the playoffs. So it's okay for them and not the Rangers?

And if he had made sweeping changes to the Rangers? That would be a good thing. So what's your point? That Sather isn't doing what's best for the team, just what's best for himself? I didn't need that pointed out to me, I think that's fairly obvious by the fact that this team continues to suck.

It's funny, the Chicago Blackhawks sucked for years. But now they're good, and all of a sudden, ticket sales aren't a problem. Imagine that, making money from the fans AND offering them a quality product.

The Pittsburgh Penguins almost MOVED, yet now there is no problem selling tickets.

How could you possibly damage the reputation of a team that hasn't been good in over 15 years and that never, ever comes close to being one of the best teams in the league? How could you damage the reputation of a team that is so flawed in it;s construction that it can't develop a consistent cycle in the opposition's zone from shift to shift in more than small handful of games throughout an 82 game season?
I knew you would bring up the Knicks on the rebuild example, so let's clear that up right now.

The Knicks have only been rebuilding for 2 years. And that was after a regime change. The only way the Rangers could sell a rebuild right now is through a regime change. From a financial standpoint, how have the Rangers been hurt badly enough to force such a change since that is how Dolan chiefly views things?

By the way, Sather told Dolan of his rebuild plan in 2004. What has happened since then? 4 straight playoff appearances after a 7-year drought & possibly a 5th berth this season. And since Sather is still one of the most respected hockey execs in the NHL, how could Dolan justify forcing his ouster since the team is significantly more competitive now than pre-lockout?

In fact, better question: What's the backup plan for Dolan if he canned Sather? Who would immediately jump at the job right now? If Slats resigns or retires on his on accord, then that's a different story that would be a lot more positively received.

Next, you bring up the Blackhawks. How can you count them? Hello, they had to have their owner die before they made substantial progress. If Dollar Bill was still alive and well, who knows how that team might be doing.

The Penguins? I can't offer a real rebuttal for them except that they were literally saved by one of the most lucky ball bounces in the history of lotteries.

Finally, you talk of the Rangers' rep. The Rangers' rep was damaged pre-lockout by the horrid spending ways w/o a cap and culminated with firesale of 2004. It's been repaired by what has happened since the lockout. Take your home team bias out of the equation and you will see that the only people who heavily, heavily rail on the team are those who actually pay close attention to the team.

I'm not saying that this team is in a great state or that the future looks bright. I'm not even saying that a rebuild can't happen. But there is no way on God's green Earth that you can tank a season at the deadline and sell that to your superiors or to the majority of fans that support(and aren't as attentive with the state of the franchise)the team w/o getting ready to be fired.

Why should Sather, or any competent GM, do something that will lead directly to their firing? Even the great and all wonderful Lou Lam wouldn't do this. Wake up.


EDIT: Actually, I'll correct myself a bit. Dale Tallon DID do something to lead directly to his firing last year with the bungling of the contracts that, as a result, keep those very same Blackhawks from having even a decent goalie right now.


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Old
03-03-2010, 10:42 PM
  #213
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And finally, Sting my friend, I think you are one of the best posters on the forum (and I couldn't agrede more with your impassioned defenses of Drury) but you are thinking like a detached observer and not like a competitive athlete or manager. Competitors want to win now. Competitors think they can win now. Callahan, Lundqvist and the other pillars of this team would go crazy if they thought the Rangers were going to take a few years off to regroup and rebuild. The only way you can accomplish that kind of rebuild is to strip it down to the walls and have an ownership group with deep pockets and a lot of patience. The Rangers don't have the stomach to do a complete rebuild nor an owner that fits the profile. Trading a vital player (i.e. Prospal, Jokinen) for a 2nd round draft choice who has a 1 in 4 chance of being an NHL player 5 years from now isn't going to cut it.
I think you're a very solid poster as well, except when it comes to your view of Sather. You bring a lot to the board, a lot of good discussion. But I cannot and will not accept this point of view.

If I'm detached, it's only because that's what year after year of this has done to me.

Everyone wants to win now. You think I don't want to win now? Would I be thrilled if this team ran the gauntlet and ended up in the finals? Yes and I would cheer as hard as the next guy. But it isn't going to happen. This team is simply not good enough. And the same has been true every year since the lockout. So what are you going to do? Keep plowing forward even when all logic points to the fact that you're destined to fail, or bite the bullet and do what is necessary to actually be able to win and have a chance? I choose the latter.

How many years is this going to go on? How many years of failure have to go by before it becomes clear that this method does not work?

You can't tell me that Henrik Lundqvist feels good about this team. Just look at his face after games. I think, if I was a player, especially one who gives it his all on a nightly basis like Lundqvist or Callahan, I would be sick and tired of this. I can't fathom that the strategy of "don't expect any real help, just a bunch of decent fill in scrubs every year" is somehow more comforting or encouraging than "let's take a year or even two to make this team much, much stronger for years to come." Lundqvist and Callahan aren't stupid. And while I'm sure they're very friendly with the Aaron Voros and the Lisins and the Prospals and the Reddens, they realize that those players are not what it takes to win in the playoffs.

One top draft pick, just one, could change this team's future drastically. Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin would have given this team a completely different look. And yes, I do believe that even with Henrik Lundqvist, we could have been "bad enough" to net a top pick. And there is nothing to be ashamed of in doing so. I don't see any shame or embarrassment in the fanbases of Chicago or Pittsburgh or Washington or LA or Boston or any of the other teams in this league that have rebuilt themselves VIA high draft picks. All I see is teams that play a style of hockey that is a pleasure to watch almost every night. That's what I want. I want the team that I have an undying affection for to be fun to watch. This team is not fun to watch most nights. I still watch. Every game, every period. But this is not a good hockey team, and they will not have success in the playoffs. I'm not even sure they'll get in.

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03-03-2010, 10:57 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I think you're a very solid poster as well, except when it comes to your view of Sather. You bring a lot to the board, a lot of good discussion. But I cannot and will not accept this point of view.

If I'm detached, it's only because that's what year after year of this has done to me.

Everyone wants to win now. You think I don't want to win now? Would I be thrilled if this team ran the gauntlet and ended up in the finals? Yes and I would cheer as hard as the next guy. But it isn't going to happen. This team is simply not good enough. And the same has been true every year since the lockout. So what are you going to do? Keep plowing forward even when all logic points to the fact that you're destined to fail, or bite the bullet and do what is necessary to actually be able to win and have a chance? I choose the latter.

How many years is this going to go on? How many years of failure have to go by before it becomes clear that this method does not work?

You can't tell me that Henrik Lundqvist feels good about this team. Just look at his face after games. I think, if I was a player, especially one who gives it his all on a nightly basis like Lundqvist or Callahan, I would be sick and tired of this. I can't fathom that the strategy of "don't expect any real help, just a bunch of decent fill in scrubs every year" is somehow more comforting or encouraging than "let's take a year or even two to make this team much, much stronger for years to come." Lundqvist and Callahan aren't stupid. And while I'm sure they're very friendly with the Aaron Voros and the Lisins and the Prospals and the Reddens, they realize that those players are not what it takes to win in the playoffs.

One top draft pick, just one, could change this team's future drastically. Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin would have given this team a completely different look. And yes, I do believe that even with Henrik Lundqvist, we could have been "bad enough" to net a top pick. And there is nothing to be ashamed of in doing so. I don't see any shame or embarrassment in the fanbases of Chicago or Pittsburgh or Washington or LA or Boston or any of the other teams in this league that have rebuilt themselves VIA high draft picks. All I see is teams that play a style of hockey that is a pleasure to watch almost every night. That's what I want. I want the team that I have an undying affection for to be fun to watch. This team is not fun to watch most nights. I still watch. Every game, every period. But this is not a good hockey team, and they will not have success in the playoffs. I'm not even sure they'll get in.

Sting I too have a great respect for you as a poster. We have fought a lot of battles over Drury together and I'm glad there is at least one other person who agrees with me in that respect.

But...I do think things aren't nearly as bad as they could be. Sure we aren't an elite team...but hey...after 7 years of not making the playoffs...just making the post season is a treat for me. I really do think Sather is starting to see the error of his ways. Getting rid of Gomez was a start and then moving Kotalik was a second step and not giving in a forcing a deal today was yet another step.

There are a lot of franchises that are worse off than the Rangers are.

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03-03-2010, 11:13 PM
  #215
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I feel that most of you just want to make a trade for the sake of it. He obviously didnt get a deal that was worthy enough of accepting. If the deal was right, he wouldve pulled the trigger. We dont have the NHL assets that we are willing to trade (Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, Del Zotto, Anisimov) to get these big name players moving foward. You got to give to get and these players are the upcoming core of our franchise. Honestly i wouldnt have minded if he was selling, but he had other plans in mind. He did a good job of staying pat. It wouldve been nice trading Prospal for a 2nd but hes a key part of our offense. You cant fix this team at the deadline, just way too many holes.

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03-03-2010, 11:24 PM
  #216
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Lovin this day!! I could not be happier.

Kinda bummed we didn't sell, but I understand Sather's thinking in going to battle with what we have. This team is too bi-polar to have a good feel what they can do/can't do.

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03-03-2010, 11:42 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I think you're a very solid poster as well, except when it comes to your view of Sather.
Please don't tie me to Sather. I think it is time for him to step down (or get whacked)

The first 4 years of his regime were not pretty. Finally in 2004, he did exactly what you have talked about -- burning the furniture. If I remember right the Rangers had 13 draft picks in the first three rounds of the 2004 and 2005 drafts. I thought the Rangers were pretty competitive the last four years. In 2006, they made the playoffs for the first time in seven years with a bunch of shrewd free agent signings (no big names) and might have done more damage if a few things didn't go wrong in the last month of the season. In 2007, I thought they were one of the best teams in the league. The won a round in 2008 and gave Washington a pretty good battle in 2009.

What bothers me is that just isn't good enough. I think that the team took a step backwards this year. Some trades didn't work out, some free agents bombed and I have a real question about the coaching situation.

When you are rebuilding, at some point you hit a peak. That peak probably came after the first round win over Jersey in 2008. Since then, it's been disappointing. That's why I think we need a change of leadership.

But that doesn't mean we have to gut the team. Trading a soon to be UFA doesn't guarantee anything. I went back over a lot of years and I can't find a Ranger team since the late 1980s with as much home grown talent. I prefer to think that a) the team has underperformed and may be capable of playing much better in the next two months and b) what the team needs for next year is another infusion of youth and a couple of key additions. 1 or 2 key subtractions won't hurt either.

This team is too close to start over. And for us older guys, we're not interested in marching in place for a few years. As Leon Hess once said when he owned the Jets ; "I'm 80 years old...I want to win now."

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03-04-2010, 12:38 AM
  #218
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3 things I liked about today and the weeks leading up to today.

1. I like the fact we didn't over spend for what was moved in trades today.

2. Our biggest move was about 6 games ago when we got rid of higgins and koti. I really hated hearing how higgins did all the right things but score and koti's contract gone

3. If we are able to move Prospal's/Jokinen's rights prior to the draft for say a 3rd round pick..I could live with that.

If anyone is truely unhappy with the 3 things I listed here then they will probably never be happy with anything sather does. I am not a sather fan but can still be objective on the topic at hand. He is better then many gm's in the league who are perenially bottom feeders, never win and still have no true assets to show for it.

Since the lockout our scouting staff has been doing well gaining assets with the non-lottery picks so I see no reason why we shouldn't shoot for the playoffs. Granted we won't get a top 5 pick in the draft but we have done alright with the lower picks in the draft. The players might not be game changers by themselves but as a team they will make a difference.

I will root for them to win and live with it if they lose. I guess that's all in being a fan of a team.

One more thing. Even if we were sellers I highly doubt we would have received a first round picks for any of our ufa to be players. I didn't notice any 1st rounders getting moved today.

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03-04-2010, 06:10 AM
  #219
Carlos Ranger
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The GM did attempt to improve his team, but found the price for renting Nashville defenseman Dan Hamhuis and/or Columbus winger Raffi Torres too expensive for his taste. There was some discussion with Vancouver about renting pivot Pavol Demitra, Marian Gaborik's running buddy, but nothing of substance developed.

The Blueshirts never had any intention of inquiring about Edmonton defenseman Sheldon Souray. Neither David Booth nor Nathan Horton was available from Florida. And as Sather never had any intention of exchanging young assets for short-term help, there were no moves at the big-league level for the first deadline day since 2001.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...blQyzyEUkY36LL

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