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Typical over-reaction by some Oiler fans (posters)

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Old
03-03-2010, 10:11 PM
  #1
copper_blue
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Typical over-reaction by some Oiler fans (posters)

Wow, what an over reaction. I agree that Visnovsky is better that Whitney right now. However, you need to look at the whole picture.

1) With posters' over reaction and criticism, this is exactly an example on why players call Edmonton a microscope town. Whitney is already a scape-goat without even putting the jersey on.

2) Let Whitney play for 20 games in an Oiler uniform before you judge him. Then criticize, if its warranted.

3) On paper, we might have lost the trade, but we did not get slaughtered. Its called a rebuild. To rid salary, get younger and bigger you need to lose a couple of trades in the present, for the benefit of the future.

4) Visnovsky is soft.

5) I know some posters will respond by stating that they are entitled to their opinion, which is absolutely true. I just wanted to state my two cents.

6) This is where my opinion will probably be ripped by some. (just like the Visnovsky trade)


Last edited by copper_blue: 03-03-2010 at 10:14 PM. Reason: grammar
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03-03-2010, 10:12 PM
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Ha, don't judge an average fan to an average poster on here. They aren't even close to the same thing. If you look on every board here there are people *****ing about the return they got for x player.

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03-03-2010, 10:16 PM
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My only concern is that the 6th rounder is basically a useless throw-in.

i was upset when i first heard about the trade, but now i just really wish we could have squeezed out a 2nd round pick or something of a little more value with it.

Oh well, hopefully Whitney can make this deal easier on us with some nice play down the stretch here.

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03-03-2010, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copper_blue View Post
Wow, what an over reaction. I agree that Visnovsky is better that Whitney right now. However, you need to look at the whole picture.

1) With posters' over reaction and criticism, this is exactly an example on why players call Edmonton a microscope town. Whitney is already a scape-goat without even putting the jersey on.

2) Let Whitney play for 20 games in an Oiler uniform before you judge him. Then criticize, if its warranted.

3) On paper, we might have lost the trade, but we did not get slaughtered. Its called a rebuild. To rid salary, get younger and bigger you need to lose a couple of trades in the present, for the benefit of the future.

4) Visnovsky is soft.

5) I know some posters will respond by stating that they are entitled to their opinion, which is absolutely true. I just wanted to state my two cents.

6) This is where my opinion will be probably be ripped by some. (just like the Visnovsky trade)
My issue with the deal isn't that we got Whitney back, it's just that the wrong guys are being moved. It's understandable for obvious reasons, but ideally its Souray and Gilbert that go, not Grebeshkov and Visnovsky.

I will give Whitney a chance, not just 20 games, but all of next season. To evaluate him based on the remainder of this season is unfair to say the least.

I really hoped we could go into next season with a top 4 of...

Visnovsky-Smid
Grebeshkov-Volchenkov

I still hope we can get rid of Souray in the off season and bring in Volchenkov or Hamhuis, or a cheaper option like Mitchell.

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Old
03-03-2010, 10:22 PM
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As I said yesterday I wanted to keep visnovsky because I liked him but in reality almost all the older veterans need to go.

Like most of you I would have also liked a higher draft pick but the trade is not the disaster it is being made out yo be.

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03-03-2010, 10:24 PM
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Dreger had the Oilers as one of the winners of deadline day and I agree with him. By the time July 1st rolls around they will have slashed near 10 million off of their cap.

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03-03-2010, 10:24 PM
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They gave away a proven commodity for an unproven one who has already had 2 teams sour on him and makes almost the same amount of money. Now maybe Whitney has some sort of hockey epiphany on his way to EDM and becomes the player that PIT thought he would be when they drafted him, but that would be an unexpected surprise. I prefer to deal with the facts. The facts tell me that Tambo took an unnecessary risk in this deal that makes the team on the ice substantially worse for a the sake of making a very modest gain on paper.

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03-03-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copper_blue View Post
Wow, what an over reaction. I agree that Visnovsky is better that Whitney right now. However, you need to look at the whole picture.
I don't understand why people think they know so much more than everybody else. We all know the team is rebuilding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copper_blue View Post
1) With posters' over reaction and criticism, this is exactly an example on why players call Edmonton a microscope town. Whitney is already a scape-goat without even putting the jersey on.
Oh, boy. I guess as fans now we're not allowed rational thought. Let's all give the players and management a free pass on everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copper_blue View Post
2) Let Whitney play for 20 games in an Oiler uniform before you judge him. Then criticize, if its warranted.
He's soft and he hasn't put up points since he played with Crosby. I don't need to see him slip on a jersey to know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copper_blue View Post
3) On paper, we might have lost the trade, but we did not get slaughtered. Its called a rebuild. To rid salary, get younger and bigger you need to lose a couple of trades in the present, for the benefit of the future.
1.6 million isn't much cap relief when you're trading your best and most consistent player. I'd rather hold onto Visnovsky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by copper_blue View Post
4) Visnovsky is soft.
If you think Visnovsky's bad, wait until you see Whitney. He's soft as butter.

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03-03-2010, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Dreger had the Oilers as one of the winners of deadline day and I agree with him. By the time July 1st rolls around they will have slashed near 10 million off of their cap.
I think I started tuning out the "TSN think-tank" after they reported that Khabby was an improvement on Roloson.

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03-03-2010, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
They gave away a proven commodity for an unproven one who has already had 2 teams sour on him and makes almost the same amount of money. Now maybe Whitney has some sort of hockey epiphany on his way to EDM and becomes the player that PIT thought he would be when they drafted him, but that would be an unexpected surprise. I prefer to deal with the facts. The facts tell me that Tambo took an unnecessary risk in this deal that makes the team on the ice substantially worse for a the sake of making a very modest gain on paper.
The way I see the situation is that Souray was immovable thanks to his hand infection and Tambellini wanted to make sure that he moved a heavy contract today. Seeing as Souray was a no go (and not even a sure trade at the draft) he had to move Visnovsky. Yeah, I'm not enamoured with Whitney but I'm willing to give him a break.

It's not like the Oilers were any good with Visnovsky and now we have 5.9 in cap relief with the moves.

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03-03-2010, 10:29 PM
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I'm coming around to it. You get caught up in the excitement of the deadline and kind of lose focus of the big picture because you see what other teams are doing. Unfortunately we're not in the same situation as those other teams. After a few hours and taking a step back to can start to assess the overall situation.

I don't know if Visnovsky will ever be a worse player than Whitney but it's not crazy to think he only has a year or two of being out right better when you consider how old he is. When Whitney is 29 years old with a 4M cap hit and VIsnovsky is 35 with a 5.6M cap hit, we're probably going to be happy we made this deal.

2 days ago we 18.15M invested in our top 4 Dmen and we are a 30th placed team. Clearly the money was invested wrong. So maybe we need lose a couple trades if it means clearing cap space so we can restart. It sucks but it's probably for the best.

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03-03-2010, 10:29 PM
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Vish isn't in the long term plans. Whether we trade him today, at the draft, or in the offseason, he's not here next year.

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03-03-2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
I think I started tuning out the "TSN think-tank" after they reported that Khabby was an improvement on Roloson.
When healthy, he is. It's funny how nobody seemed to take Khabibulin's health issues into account, though.

Roloson's had a decent year but I certainly wouldn't want him tending our net at 41.

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03-03-2010, 10:30 PM
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From: http://www.dobberhockey.com/index.ph...id=24:rambling

What is Edmonton thinking? They traded Visnovsky for a much worse version of himself in Ryan Whitney. Visnovsky is an elite level talent. This trade makes absolutely zero sense. Then again, not much of what GM Steve Tambellini has done this season does.

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03-03-2010, 10:32 PM
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I'm coming around to it. You get caught up in the excitement of the deadline and kind of lose focus of the big picture because you see what other teams are doing. Unfortunately we're not in the same situation as those other teams. After a few hours and taking a step back to can start to assess the overall situation.

I don't know if Visnovsky will ever be a worse player than Whitney but it's not crazy to think he only has a year or two of being out right better when you consider how old he is. When Whitney is 29 years old with a 4M cap hit and VIsnovsky is 35 with a 5.6M cap hit, we're probably going to be happy we made this deal.

2 days ago we 18.15M invested in our top 4 Dmen and we are a 30th placed team. Clearly the money was invested wrong. So maybe we need lose a couple trades if it means clearing cap space so we can restart. It sucks but it's probably for the best.
That's the key here. Lowe rolled the dice on too many mediocre players and although Vish doesn't fit that mold, with his heavy contract he was the casualty... or rather, from his perspective, the beneficiary.

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03-03-2010, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
I don't understand why people think they know so much more than everybody else. We all know the team is rebuilding.


Oh, boy. I guess as fans now we're not allowed rational thought. Let's all give the players and management a free pass on everything.


He's soft and he hasn't put up points since he played with Crosby. I don't need to see him slip on a jersey to know that.


1.6 million isn't much cap relief when you're trading your best and most consistent player. I'd rather hold onto Visnovsky.


If you think Visnovsky's bad, wait until you see Whitney. He's soft as butter.
Exhibit A

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03-03-2010, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
I don't understand why people think they know so much more than everybody else. We all know the team is rebuilding.


Oh, boy. I guess as fans now we're not allowed rational thought. Let's all give the players and management a free pass on everything.


He's soft and he hasn't put up points since he played with Crosby. I don't need to see him slip on a jersey to know that.


1.6 million isn't much cap relief when you're trading your best and most consistent player. I'd rather hold onto Visnovsky.


If you think Visnovsky's bad, wait until you see Whitney. He's soft as butter.
why do you want to hold on to him? How old will he be when the oilers are close to contending?

I keep on reading this but I do not see the rationale. He already expressed a desire to be traded so it is not like he wants to be a mentor, he is not a leader.

I am also not convinced that Whitney is useless and has no upside. That has been completely exagerrated!

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03-03-2010, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copper_blue View Post
Wow, what an over reaction. I agree that Visnovsky is better that Whitney right now. However, you need to look at the whole picture.

1) With posters' over reaction and criticism, this is exactly an example on why players call Edmonton a microscope town. Whitney is already a scape-goat without even putting the jersey on.

2) Let Whitney play for 20 games in an Oiler uniform before you judge him. Then criticize, if its warranted.

3) On paper, we might have lost the trade, but we did not get slaughtered. Its called a rebuild. To rid salary, get younger and bigger you need to lose a couple of trades in the present, for the benefit of the future.

4) Visnovsky is soft.

5) I know some posters will respond by stating that they are entitled to their opinion, which is absolutely true. I just wanted to state my two cents.

6) This is where my opinion will probably be ripped by some. (just like the Visnovsky trade)

I do agree that a lot of people overreact not only on the Oiler forums but a lot of other passionate fanbases too and i'm usually pretty level headed in these situations but this trade makes NO sense..... If they traded Visnovsky for draft picks and prospects, that would have made sense as they would dump Vis's salary without taking any back and it would work towards a rebuild but taking back Whitney (who i've seen play a lot) who is another overpaid underperforming young player, sound familiar (cough Gilbert cough) makes no sense..... Players like Whitney are the type of players who we should be avoiding at all costs, he has no heart and plays way smaller than his size, ENOUGH of these soft players already and this soft player comes at a $4 mil cap hit for another 3 years. Whitney is still young enough to improve but developing a heart just doesn't appear out of nowhere, you either have it or you don't and this is also my problem with Gilbert..... We are supposed to get rid of redundancy on the roster but now with this trade, we added to the redundacy problem. Maybe the thinking is that Whitney is another asset and maybe we will trade him or Gilbert at some point, that would make sense but it makes no sense to keep two of the same type of player who are both overpaid as the anchors of our defense, it's scary to think that this could be our top pairing going forward.

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Old
03-03-2010, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copper_blue View Post
Wow, what an over reaction. I agree that Visnovsky is better that Whitney right now. However, you need to look at the whole picture.

1) With posters' over reaction and criticism, this is exactly an example on why players call Edmonton a microscope town. Whitney is already a scape-goat without even putting the jersey on.
It was a poor trade for the Oilers. I can't speak for other Oiler fans, but I have nothing against Whitney. I don't see him being held as a scape-goat.

Quote:

2) Let Whitney play for 20 games in an Oiler uniform before you judge him. Then criticize, if its warranted.
Again, I don't think anybody has a 'hate on' for Whitney, but rather the deal made was just lopsided.

Quote:

3) On paper, we might have lost the trade, but we did not get slaughtered. Its called a rebuild. To rid salary, get younger and bigger you need to lose a couple of trades in the present, for the benefit of the future.
We really didn't shed much cap space or contract length with this deal. I would be much happier with the trade if we did shed more salary, or the new acquisition's contract expired sooner.

Quote:

4) Visnovsky is soft.
Really? He's not big, but is definately not scared to grind it out in the corners.

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03-03-2010, 10:34 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
My issue with the deal isn't that we got Whitney back, it's just that the wrong guys are being moved. It's understandable for obvious reasons, but ideally its Souray and Gilbert that go, not Grebeshkov and Visnovsky.

I will give Whitney a chance, not just 20 games, but all of next season. To evaluate him based on the remainder of this season is unfair to say the least.

I really hoped we could go into next season with a top 4 of...

Visnovsky-Smid
Grebeshkov-Volchenkov

I still hope we can get rid of Souray in the off season and bring in Volchenkov or Hamhuis, or a cheaper option like Mitchell.
Heven't bothered to read any of the main trade threads, but I thought all ofTambo's deals were a positive step forward.

Gilbert/Grebeshkov: The line of thinking might be that Gilbert can still rebound into what he was two years ago. With Grebeshkov, he is what he is at this point, he's not going to get better. One of them had to go (and I wouldn't mind seeing both gone), and Gilbert's big ticket would have meant taking less than market value right now. He'd probably generate better return in the summer if they're still looking to move him.

Souray/Visnovsky: One has value, the other doesn't, it's that simple. Not sure what everybody's fascination with Visnovsky is. He was probably our best d-man (maybe Smid), but that's not saying much this year. $6 million was a pretty steep price for his services, and he's nearly 34 years old. That's the key. We moved out a high priced veteran who could begin to decline at any moment and got a decent and much younger d-man back in return. Having that contract off the books when we need to resign some guys in two or three years will be helpful.

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Old
03-03-2010, 10:34 PM
  #21
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RE

Whitney has pretty good stats in his first seasons so far..
and he is much much bigger and younger..
Vish is frail.. prone to injury.. and old..

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03-03-2010, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
From: http://www.dobberhockey.com/index.ph...id=24:rambling

What is Edmonton thinking? They traded Visnovsky for a much worse version of himself in Ryan Whitney. Visnovsky is an elite level talent. This trade makes absolutely zero sense. Then again, not much of what GM Steve Tambellini has done this season does.
We have no idea what Tambellini was being offered for Visnovsky. One would HOPE that he took the best deal available.

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03-03-2010, 10:37 PM
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I was so pissed with the deal at 1st until I realized Whitney has already shown he can be a 60 point Defenseman. If he turns it around in Edmonton, great trade.

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03-03-2010, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Dreger had the Oilers as one of the winners of deadline day and I agree with him. By the time July 1st rolls around they will have slashed near 10 million off of their cap.
- Visnovsky: $1.6m (his 5.6 - Whitney's incoming 4.0)
- Grebeshkov: 3.15
- Staios: 2.7
= $7,450,000

UFAs
- Pisani: 2.5
- Comrie: 1.25
- Strudwick: 0.7
- Johnson: 0.54

= $4,990,000

Total: $12,440,000


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03-03-2010, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Real_Estate-Agent View Post
From: http://www.dobberhockey.com/index.ph...id=24:rambling

What is Edmonton thinking? They traded Visnovsky for a much worse version of himself in Ryan Whitney. Visnovsky is an elite level talent. This trade makes absolutely zero sense. Then again, not much of what GM Steve Tambellini has done this season does.
For how much longer? Why does everyone act like this guy is in his mid 20's? Selling off veteran talent at a time when it's not needed is much smarter than hanging on to it until it has no value left. See Moreau and Staios for prime examples. It sure would suck a couple seasons down the road if we were stuck with a $6 million contract for a declining veteran when we were trying to bolster the team for a playoff run.

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