HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

So are we supose to win the Stanley Cup with Leighton and Boucher as our Goalies?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-06-2010, 09:32 AM
  #76
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16,528
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Sorry I'm not such a pessimist. I couldn't live like that.

But I can't throw hope away. This team has made it far with what many people assumed are worse. I've brought it up before, but Edmonton, and 8th seed which no one took seriously, made it to the Finals a few years ago. Homer is right that anything can happen. It's not a good strategy at the trade deadline to prepare for the playoffs, but he's right.

Any NHL team is a roller coaster: buckle in and hang on for the ride, as you have no control. There's nothing we can do but watch and hope. Oh wait, I take that back. There's plenty of time for people to ***** about it online to total strangers. My mistake.
Show me one clip where media ( not Holmer, Lavi , or Philly press) have praised the Flyers by having all the talent you need to make a playoff run, but have a 3rd stringer as your # 1 ?? It's not just us on chat rooms.

I agree with your point of just sitting back and enjoying the ride, but when you know the final piece of the roller coaster was put together by a drunk, blind, one armed technician, some of us are not going to enjoy the rides as much as others.

bennysflyers16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:33 AM
  #77
JLHockeyKnight
IMA Real American
 
JLHockeyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Show me one clip where media ( not Holmer, Lavi , or Philly press) have praised the Flyers by having all the talent you need to make a playoff run, but have a 3rd stringer as your # 1 ?? It's not just us on chat rooms.

I agree with your point of just sitting back and enjoying the ride, but when you know the final piece of the roller coaster was put together by a drunk, blind, one armed technician, some of us are not going to enjoy the rides as much as others.
The media has about as much credibility as HFBoards when it comes to opinions. Especially the Philadelphia press. Ask Mike Richards.

JLHockeyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:35 AM
  #78
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I'm certainly not a CBA guy, but I think I remember that a player whose offer sheet is matched by his current club cannot be traded for a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
You have to consider that a player can't be traded the follwing year once he signed an offer sheet. That will make a backup like Harding more hesitant to agree. And another thing, both Harding and Halak are arbitration eligible, if they are taken to arbitration they can't be signed to offer sheets.

The whole point is that an offer sheet isn't the way you get one of them, you have to trade for them.
Okay, so much for that idea then.

FlyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:36 AM
  #79
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
The media has about as much credibility as HFBoards when it comes to opinions. Especially the Philadelphia press. Ask Mike Richards.
That doesn't really address the point...it isn't just a bunch of internet fans saying this is a bad situation and Holmgren screwed up. I have yet to see a single NHL deadline day analysis that hasn't come down rather hard on Holmgren.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:36 AM
  #80
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16,528
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
The media has about as much credibility as HFBoards when it comes to opinions.
I agree , but some have a little bit

It just sucks, because like you I always think the Flyers are going to win. But for the first time in 25 years, I have ZERO confidence that we can win the cup, yet alone make the playoffs. Even the year we don't talk about I thought w could do it until we were officially eliminated.

bennysflyers16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:41 AM
  #81
JLHockeyKnight
IMA Real American
 
JLHockeyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
I agree , but some have a little bit

It just sucks, because like you I always think the Flyers are going to win. But for the first time in 25 years, I have ZERO confidence that we can win the cup, yet alone make the playoffs. Even the year we don't talk about I thought w could do it until we were officially eliminated.
No offense, but couldn't be more wrong. I come into every game a realist. I know which teams are better, which ones the Flyers should be able to beat and which ones they're going to have a rough time/likely lose. But just as Opus found out with the Sweden/Slovakia game, just because you're the better team that year doesn't mean you're the better team that night. I'm just the type where I honestly can't believe anything is over until that final buzzer sounds. Until then there is always a chance.

And if anyone doesn't believe me, ask Zach Parise.


JLHockeyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:41 AM
  #82
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16,528
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Okay, so much for that idea then.
See this pisses me off almost more than anything. By keeping Leighton as the #1, the chances of winning the cup will be extremely low. Make the trade for one of the kids so that you have 1 piece in place for the summer. By watching local sports news ( The Moose) Schneider was praying for a trade and the guys were saying they were positive if the Canucks got offered a 4-5 Dman the trade would of been done ????
I trade 1 of Parent or Coburn in a second to acquire Schneider, it would be a risk worth taking. But the sad thing is , I 100% believe that Holmer did not even look at young goalie options.

bennysflyers16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:46 AM
  #83
JLHockeyKnight
IMA Real American
 
JLHockeyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
See this pisses me off almost more than anything. By keeping Leighton as the #1, the chances of winning the cup will be extremely low. Make the trade for one of the kids so that you have 1 piece in place for the summer. By watching local sports news ( The Moose) Schneider was praying for a trade and the guys were saying they were positive if the Canucks got offered a 4-5 Dman the trade would of been done ????
I trade 1 of Parent or Coburn in a second to acquire Schneider, it would be a risk worth taking. But the sad thing is , I 100% believe that Holmer did not even look at young goalie options.
Well, they've watched them a lot more than us. If they honestly felt that, then they must have felt defense was the problem (likely the Hamhuis talks then). But as much as it sucks now, I'm glad they didn't make a move. With Emery announced as out, every team knew the Flyers were going into the playoffs with Leighton and 29 others teams essentially had them by the balls to force them into overpayment to make a decent move to try and improve. That's not improving in my eyes. Essentially it's like giving your steering wheel away to fix a flat tire. Long term, it's better they didn't make a move, and considering everyone *****ed about Homer rushing into a short term Briere deal, it's funny to watch those same people ***** about him going the long term approach, even if I agree we're in for a rough time with Leighton.

JLHockeyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:46 AM
  #84
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16,528
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
No offense, but couldn't be more wrong. I come into every game a realist. I know which teams are better, which ones the Flyers should be able to beat and which ones they're going to have a rough time/likely lose. But just as Opus found out with the Sweden/Slovakia game, just because you're the better team that year doesn't mean you're the better team that night. I'm just the type where I honestly can't believe anything is over until that final buzzer sounds. Until then there is always a chance.

And if anyone doesn't believe me, ask Zach Parise.


Ask Parise what, his team lost.

bennysflyers16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:48 AM
  #85
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Okay, so much for that idea then.
You do a sign-and-trade type of deal in that scenario, basically what the Leafs and Boston worked out.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:50 AM
  #86
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16,528
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Well, they've watched them a lot more than us. If they honestly felt that, then they must have felt defense was the problem (likely the Hamhuis talks then). But as much as it sucks now, I'm glad they didn't make a move. With Emery announced as out, every team knew the Flyers were going into the playoffs with Leighton and 29 others teams essentially had them by the balls to force them into overpayment to make a decent move to try and improve. That's not improving in my eyes. Essentially it's like giving your steering wheel away to fix a flat tire. Long term, it's better they didn't make a move, and considering everyone *****ed about Homer rushing into a short term Briere deal, it's funny to watch those same people ***** about him going the long term approach, even if I agree we're in for a rough time with Leighton.
I was OK with the Briere deal at the time, after that year I needed a splash. And you say other GM's had us with our situation, well after the Flyers crash and burn in the playoffs, they will have us even more by the balls. Unless you believe we can sign a UFA goalie (not sure if there are any realistic ones) we are imo more ****ed come summer time as guys like Hart's trade value could be nil the way he is playing.

bennysflyers16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:53 AM
  #87
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You do a sign-and-trade type of deal in that scenario, basically what the Leafs and Boston worked out.
Well, that would be the ideal scenario, I was just hoping we could use the offer sheet to exert pressure.

FlyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:56 AM
  #88
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16,528
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You do a sign-and-trade type of deal in that scenario, basically what the Leafs and Boston worked out.
Who would you prefer out of Schneider or Harding and would you be OK with a Biron type as the back up ? The reason I ask as imo this could solidify the position while spending > 4 mill combined .

bennysflyers16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:57 AM
  #89
usahockey22flyers
Classic Coburn...
 
usahockey22flyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,324
vCash: 500
question.. who plays when powe comes back??? whos the scratch?

usahockey22flyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 09:58 AM
  #90
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 16,528
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
question.. who plays when powe comes back??? whos the scratch?
My guess will be Leino or Asham. Even though HArts needs 3 games in the pressbox to send a message.

bennysflyers16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 10:02 AM
  #91
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Well, that would be the ideal scenario, I was just hoping we could use the offer sheet to exert pressure.
Well, not like we have the draft picks to really put a pressure filled offer sheet down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Who would you prefer out of Schneider or Harding and would you be OK with a Biron type as the back up ? The reason I ask as imo this could solidify the position while spending > 4 mill combined .
Ah, I'm not sure who I would prefer...you'd have to see the relative cost, I guess.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 10:05 AM
  #92
JLHockeyKnight
IMA Real American
 
JLHockeyKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Central Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 19,439
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
I was OK with the Briere deal at the time, after that year I needed a splash. And you say other GM's had us with our situation, well after the Flyers crash and burn in the playoffs, they will have us even more by the balls. Unless you believe we can sign a UFA goalie (not sure if there are any realistic ones) we are imo more ****ed come summer time as guys like Hart's trade value could be nil the way he is playing.
They have 2.5 million free on their cap. Assuming the cap doesn't move, and letting Boucher walk (0.9 mil), and assuming they re-sign all the UFA's for the same price, that's 3.4 million. Not sure how they'd handle Coburn considering he's play horrible compared to years past, I don't see his salary going up much, and with Carcillo's role I'd expect the same if not more. Assuming a small increase in both, let's say 3 million to work with roughly.

http://nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php...none&type=none

That gives a decent amount of moves for a goaltender. Biron again if we want? Budaj? Offer sheet to Price/Halak depending on which one Montreal doesn't go after? Harding or Hedberg?

And obviously they can free up more space by making a trade. Lots of time still though.

JLHockeyKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 10:06 AM
  #93
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, not like we have the draft picks to really put a pressure filled offer sheet down.
I think that even if we got the player to sign a 1.5 mill one (assuming we don't win the Cup and lose the 3rd), it'd create some movement because even if the other team matches, Harding/Schneider/Halak wouldn't be happy about it and you generally don't want to hold onto guys who actively don't want to be on your team.

However, the no-trade rule makes that point moot.

FlyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 10:13 AM
  #94
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,250
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Everyone puts such a big emphasis on goal, and obviously it is important, but if having a good goalie was what you needed to win the Cup, the Sharks, Rangers, Devils, Canucks, etc would win the cup every year. Instead they haven't won it or even been there (except the devils) in like 20 years. Let's look at the last five cup winners' goalies.

2009: Fleury vs. Osgood
2008: Fleury vs. Osgood
2007: Giguerre vs. Emery
2006: Roloson vs. Ward
2004: Khabibulin vs. Kiprusoff

Yes, all those goalies are better than Michael Leighton so don't respond like I am saying that Leighton is better than these guys or even on the same level. What I am saying is that with the exception of Kiprusoff, I wouldn't consider any of those goalies even in the top five of the league. I would Roloson is about on par with Leighton, giving Rolo the slight edge. Basically all I am saying is that nowhere does it say (or even show in statistics) that you have to have a great goalie in net to win. Not since Brodeur won in 2003 has a truly elite goalie won the cup.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 10:18 AM
  #95
dookie88
Registered User
 
dookie88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
They have 2.5 million free on their cap. Assuming the cap doesn't move, and letting Boucher walk (0.9 mil), and assuming they re-sign all the UFA's for the same price, that's 3.4 million.
Boucher is signed through next season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Not sure how they'd handle Coburn considering he's play horrible compared to years past, I don't see his salary going up much, and with Carcillo's role I'd expect the same if not more. Assuming a small increase in both, let's say 3 million to work with roughly.

http://nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php...none&type=none

That gives a decent amount of moves for a goaltender. Biron again if we want? Budaj? Offer sheet to Price/Halak depending on which one Montreal doesn't go after? Harding or Hedberg?

And obviously they can free up more space by making a trade. Lots of time still though.
The way Carcillo plays atm, and the way he developped this season I would gladly take him at $1.5mil. He's earned it.

There's no reason to sign one of Budaj and Hedberg.
Harding would not immediately help us, Price and Halak likey will be to expensive and I don't know if I want Biron back.

dookie88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 10:22 AM
  #96
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,428
vCash: 5700
Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
question.. who plays when powe comes back??? whos the scratch?
According to the game last night, Powe was available to play. Laviolette just wanted to put Leino with Carter and Britere

Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
The way Carcillo plays atm, and the way he developped this season I would gladly take him at $1.5mil. He's earned it.
Way too much. You still got guys behind him for his price who do the same job. They really need to look at that on a scale, because Cal Clutterbuck got about the same when he does a little more. If we pretend the cap stays the same, they have about $8.8M for extensions.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 11:18 AM
  #97
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Everyone puts such a big emphasis on goal, and obviously it is important, but if having a good goalie was what you needed to win the Cup, the Sharks, Rangers, Devils, Canucks, etc would win the cup every year. Instead they haven't won it or even been there (except the devils) in like 20 years. Let's look at the last five cup winners' goalies.

2009: Fleury vs. Osgood
2008: Fleury vs. Osgood
2007: Giguerre vs. Emery
2006: Roloson vs. Ward
2004: Khabibulin vs. Kiprusoff

Yes, all those goalies are better than Michael Leighton so don't respond like I am saying that Leighton is better than these guys or even on the same level. What I am saying is that with the exception of Kiprusoff, I wouldn't consider any of those goalies even in the top five of the league. I would Roloson is about on par with Leighton, giving Rolo the slight edge. Basically all I am saying is that nowhere does it say (or even show in statistics) that you have to have a great goalie in net to win. Not since Brodeur won in 2003 has a truly elite goalie won the cup.
I probably wouldn't even consider Kiprusoff a top 5 goaltender in the league. I think Miller, Vokoun, Brodeur (maybe not lately), Luongo, and Lundqvist represent the top five. Nabokov and Kiprusoff would be somewhere after that.

In the past 20 years, very few of the Eastern/Western goaltending winners have been truly elite.

Positionally sound, hot goaltenders go to the Stanley Cup behind elite teams. That has never changed, and it will never change. As always, the team makes the goaltender and not the other way around, with only a VERY few exceptions.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 11:28 AM
  #98
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,250
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I probably wouldn't even consider Kiprusoff a top 5 goaltender in the league. I think Miller, Vokoun, Brodeur (maybe not lately), Luongo, and Lundqvist represent the top five. Nabokov and Kiprusoff would be somewhere after that.

In the past 20 years, very few of the Eastern/Western goaltending winners have been truly elite.

Positionally sound, hot goaltenders go to the Stanley Cup behind elite teams. That has never changed, and it will never change. As always, the team makes the goaltender and not the other way around, with only a VERY few exceptions.
Exactly. So long as the team is playing sound defense and good offense, the goalie just has to play well. Doesn't have to shutout everyone. If the team in front is sucking, goalie has to be great. If the team in front is dominating, goalie just has to not suck.

Also I think Kipper is a top fiver. My top five would be:

1. Miller
2. Luongo
3. Brodeur
4. Lundqvist
5. Kipper

Then after that you have your Nabokovs and Vokouns and to a lesser extent your Fleurys and Byrzgalovs. I really hate when people talk about Fleury as one of the best in the league. To me he is like a Tim Thomas type player who is good but he is more athletic than technically sound.

Regardless, I still think the Flyers have a shot. Their not the favorite by a long shot but if they can kick it up on the offense and play shut down defense, they have justa s good a shot as others.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 11:31 AM
  #99
RoDu
Shagga likes axes
 
RoDu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,444
vCash: 500
I think Cam Ward is underrated

RoDu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2010, 11:40 AM
  #100
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
I think Cam Ward is underrated
Agreed.

But in the same sense, I don't think he's an elite goalie.

When I think of elite goalies, I think Broduer, Miller, Luongo, etc. You start moving past there, maybe even a little further past Lundqvist, Vokoun, and Kiprusoff, then you start getting into the gray area where goalies become almost interchangeable/dime-a-dozen.

The only thing really that keeps the goalies from switching hands often is that the organization, the players, and the goalies are normally comfortable on a winning team. It's the theory of not fixing something isn't broken. If you find someone you're comfortable with for a long time then you stick with them. That doesn't make them elite or even better than outside options.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.