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Old
03-07-2010, 12:30 AM
  #26
HockeyBasedNYC
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Dubinsky is a nice secondary scoring threat on a good team. He plays tough and can forecheck well.
Right now this team is relying on him to be a primary scoring threat and thats the problem, because he isn't. The focus wouldn't be on him as much if this team was constructed properly.

Guys like him and Callahan would be good pieces to a successful team if they had the right players surrounding them but they don't. Dubinsky isn't a guy that makes those around him better - he is the type of player that benefits from great play around him. This is the problem with Sather. He has created such a plane of mediocrity that we overvalue, criticize and exaggerate the positives and negatives of each player and especially a guy like Dubinsky. It's unfair to a degree.

He is still developing, but let's not make him out to be something hes not. I've been down on Dubinsky because his lack of consistency, but i've recently realized that the problem isnt Dubinsky, its the mere fact that he is considered a problem. This team relies on him too much. When he scores a goal they are 9-1-2. He is a complementary player, not primary one so let's not treat him like he is or should be.

Whether or not you want him to be traded because of that is up to you. Hes had well over 200 NHL games experience and he pretty much is what he is. Had he been on an 82 game pace hed average out to about a 56 point season. Again, not a bad secondary threat, 20 goals... Its easy to expect more out of the guy when so much focus is on him for this team to succeed. He is good piece for the future if you plan to fill out this roster correctly.


I dont know how many different ways i can explain it.

Im being incredibly redundant in this post.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 03-07-2010 at 12:42 AM.
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Old
03-07-2010, 12:36 AM
  #27
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The problem with Dubinsky is consistency. Even though he has more talent and skill than Callahan, that is why he isn't quite as valuable. Callahan doesn't disappear for shifts, and he certainly is never invisible for an entire game. Dubinsky does both fairly regularly. That's what is frustrating about him.

Also, some of the great things about his game when he first came into the league seem to have vanished as he's tried to expand his repertoire. He doesn't seem to be able to/want to retain those elements, which is also frustrating. If you're physical, and you're trying to add offense, you don't want to lose the physicality. Sometimes, that's what seems to be happening with him.

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03-07-2010, 12:50 AM
  #28
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Not only was he horrible in this game (blowing the 2-0 oppurtunity and not preventing the 2nd goal) but he was also pretty bad vs the penguins 2 games ago. I believe he had a goal but he had 2 perfect oppurtunities to shoot the damn puck but instead one time he passed the puck backwards to be intercepted and the other time he got "cute" and tried to stickhandle around the defensemen. If he shot the puck on at least one of those times the rangers would have beaten Pitt. Dubi's trying to be what he's not. He has a good wrister and good size. He's trying to be patrick kane deking the defender and speeding around. If he used his size and his shot rather than deke he could be a 25-30 goal scorer if he continues trying to be pretty with the puck he's gonna be a 15 goal scorer for a while
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03-07-2010, 01:19 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
I will never fully understand why Dubinsky is dissected the way he is. The kid is 23 years old. This is only his 3rd full season. He has 15 goals, which is already a career high. Keep in mind he missed 13 games this year with the injury as well. Dubinsky is a team leading (+10). Being a (+10) on this team is impressive. Stats aside, the guy is our best player when it comes to puck possession. All that time that Dubinsky is holding the puck in the offensive zone is time that the other team doesn't have the puck. Which is a good thing.

The expectations for Dubinsky need to be reigned in. The guy is developing nicely. Is he gonna be a first line forward? No. I am fine with that. Is he gonna have a bad stretch of games now and then, yes. That is what happens with young players. Everyone preaches about drafting and developing our own talent. That is what we are doing. Show some patience.
Best post in the thread.

Dubinsky scores 15 goals in 50 games, a career high in 32 less games played than his previous seasons, and gets zero recognition for it.

It's almost as if playing with Jagr was a curse for Dubinsky. His expectations were raised for him to put up 1st line center type numbers when he was always projected to be nothing more than a 2nd line center. I also think a lot of people are bitter towards Dubinsky because of his holdout.

Most Rangers fans won't be satisfied until Dubinsky is traded, and refuse to realize that Dubinsky is actually improving when compared to his previous seasons in the league. It's quite sad.

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03-07-2010, 01:23 AM
  #30
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I think Dubinsky is a borderline second line center right now, but will be a good second line center in the future when he figures out for good what to do and what not to do

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03-07-2010, 01:27 AM
  #31
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It upsets me that our fanbase has to go on these witch hunts to find someone to blame for our mediocrity. Good young players (who often face unfair expectations) are lambasted for imperfection.

There is one person to blame for our troubles: Glen ****ing Sather.

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03-07-2010, 01:40 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
Dubinsky has the heart of a Lion, he bleeds blue.

In other organizations maybe they can afford to trade a player like that, NOT THIS ONE!

Even mentioning trading Dubinsky is a complete disgrace.

I see him topping out as a poor man's Adam Deadmarsh. I don't think Brandon will ever put up a 30 goal season like Adam did, but 40-50 pts. is def. possible.

So you are saying we can't even consider trading a guy who will never have a 30 goal season? You lost me on this one.

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03-07-2010, 02:16 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
We also wouldn't have a cup if we kept some of those guys. None of them were a young player that struggled to hit thier expectations like Duby. Sandstrom was a proven scorer when we traded him. Knuble wasn't that young and did nothing here. Weight and Amonte also were established top six players at the time they were moved.

Man the Kings hose us in deals eh.

You're kidding i hope on Knuble. He had ability but got screwed. Typical Rangers. Bury a guy who could evolve into more with size and touch around the net. Imagine that. And they gave him away for Rob "Cinco" Dimaio.

As for Dubi, he has a low hockey IQ. Tendency to take ill advised penalties and silly turnovers that leave you scratching your head. If he was more consistent, I'd be all for keeping him. But put me on the list of doubters. They must continue to keep him at wing.

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03-07-2010, 03:29 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Who on offense looked good tonight?

At least he gave an effort, which is more then I can say about other forwards besides for Cally, Prospal and the fourth line. If he didnt mess up that 2 on 0 nobody would be talking about him.
Christensen and Drury played really well IMO, especially Christensen.

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03-07-2010, 03:32 AM
  #35
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What should really be happening in this thread is all the people that said we should definitely trade Callahan and not Dubinsky if and when push came to shove should be eating crow. It's never been clearer who's more valuable to us than the past month or so.

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03-07-2010, 05:34 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovy274Hart View Post
You're kidding i hope on Knuble. He had ability but got screwed. Typical Rangers. Bury a guy who could evolve into more with size and touch around the net. Imagine that. And they gave him away for Rob "Cinco" Dimaio.

As for Dubi, he has a low hockey IQ. Tendency to take ill advised penalties and silly turnovers that leave you scratching your head. If he was more consistent, I'd be all for keeping him. But put me on the list of doubters. They must continue to keep him at wing.
Who was ahead of Knuble when he was here on the RW depth chart? Theo Fluery? Alexander Daigle? He sure wasn't "burried". NO ONE thought he would turn into such a goal scorer after he left because......well he just never showed that ability here.

He didn't even start to score untill his 4th season in Boston. What exactly do you expect to get in return for a guy with less than ten goals on the season and never put up more than 15 in his career? Thats what he had when we traded him, nine to be exact.

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03-07-2010, 06:31 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
id say Dubi is average to below average in terms of hockey IQ.
I dont know about that.. wasn't Dubinsky a big time point producer in juniors? Maybe I am seeing things differently but I see a lot in his game... Very good size, very good skater, very good shot, has more than enough grit to his game to get the garbage goals and etc.. I just thnk he has to mentally mature a lot and grow up and become a legit top 6 forward (possibly first line player) The talent and skill is there...

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03-07-2010, 06:45 AM
  #38
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I always love the idea of homegrown players, but if they can't cut it they can't cut it. The thing about Rangers fans, me included, is we tend to live and die by every streak. Dubi is inconsistant at times but when he's on he's on. He's still a kid, but anyway I just have this feeling that he's going to be packaged up with Grachev and/or Sangs, and Redden(please oh please oh please) or Rozy for Lecavalier or another 'true' first line center. I may not be opposed though, depending who it is.

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03-07-2010, 08:02 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by NYRskate324 View Post
I always love the idea of homegrown players, but if they can't cut it they can't cut it. The thing about Rangers fans, me included, is we tend to live and die by every streak. Dubi is inconsistant at times but when he's on he's on. He's still a kid, but anyway I just have this feeling that he's going to be packaged up with Grachev and/or Sangs, and Redden(please oh please oh please) or Rozy for Lecavalier or another 'true' first line center. I may not be opposed though, depending who it is.
I would make that Trade for Lecavalier.... Vinny is a legit #1 star center.. No doubt... I like dubinsky but I don't think he will reach #1 star center level and Grachev is just a solid prospect where we have no idea if he will be a quality NHL player... Plus getting rid of Redden.... definately would make that trade..

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03-07-2010, 09:14 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
So you are saying we can't even consider trading a guy who will never have a 30 goal season? You lost me on this one.
Do you have a hockey career crystal ball or something? How would you know where he's going to top out when he's only 23 years old? Langenbrunner didn't score 29 until he was 33 years old.

Dubinsky isn't old enough to pick on yet and he's got more goals (15) this year, than he ever had before and he's played 52 games.

Let's see, 15/52 x 82 = 23.65 goal pace this year and you're sure he'll never hit 30? Come on.

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Old
03-07-2010, 10:04 AM
  #41
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I dont know about that.. wasn't Dubinsky a big time point producer in juniors? Maybe I am seeing things differently but I see a lot in his game... Very good size, very good skater, very good shot, has more than enough grit to his game to get the garbage goals and etc.. I just thnk he has to mentally mature a lot and grow up and become a legit top 6 forward (possibly first line player) The talent and skill is there...
Weird, I had always thought that he did alright in Juniors, but nothing spectacular. I just looked up his numbers and you're right, they are much more solid than I imagined. He scored 30+ goals once and had 40+ assists twice. He also scored 21 goals in the AHL in his only season there, which is hardly an easy feat.

I don't think his hockey IQ is that low. It's average. On the other hand, he's not the brightest player we have.

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03-07-2010, 10:26 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
The problem with Dubinsky is consistency. Even though he has more talent and skill than Callahan, that is why he isn't quite as valuable. Callahan doesn't disappear for shifts, and he certainly is never invisible for an entire game. Dubinsky does both fairly regularly. That's what is frustrating about him.

Also, some of the great things about his game when he first came into the league seem to have vanished as he's tried to expand his repertoire. He doesn't seem to be able to/want to retain those elements, which is also frustrating. If you're physical, and you're trying to add offense, you don't want to lose the physicality. Sometimes, that's what seems to be happening with him.
Nailed it. Last nights game was a prime example of it.

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03-07-2010, 11:18 AM
  #43
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Dubinsky can be had for the right price however he is a good player and he hasn't reached his potential yet and that's why other teams are always asking for him. The problem with trading guys like him or Callahan is the eventuality that replacing either of them probably comes through the free agent market. That's why we have to hold on to guys like that and live with their development. We can't afford to keep paying elite dollars to guys not worth the money we give them just because we have holes to fill.

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Old
03-07-2010, 11:19 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Dubi has been pretty bad for a few games now. He's potted some goals, but has not played well. That's the difference between Anisimov and Dubinsky, AA plays great games, doesn't put up goals, and people call him a bust. Dubi plays like crap, pots a goal or 2, and people call him untouchable.

They are still both young, though Dubi less so. There will be bouts of low productivity, we have to deal with it. I am not opposed to trading any player as long as it makes us better both in the now, and in the long term. Dubi is no exception.
AA is developing OK, but so is Dubinsky. I find it very unfair that you're trying to trump up Anisimov's season at the expense of Dubinsky. I guess its because I see the situation very different. They are both inconsistent, no doubt, but I think Dubinsky plays the sandpaper type game that makes him much more of a factor when he isnt producing offensively. In fact, as the games in this push for the playoffs become meaner and meaner, I think Dubinsky is going to be one of our better players, for better or worse. In fact, I think hes been just that over the past few games.

Anisimov has more offensive upside than Dubinsky, but theres a few parts of his game that trouble me. First and foremost is he has a bad habit of keeping his head down on the rush...hes already gotten a few thumps this season and itll only continue if he doesnt become more aware. Secondly, hes not that physical..at all..That has a lot to do with being a 21 year old 6'4" stringbean, but hes gonna have to do some work in the weightroom. Whats also working against Anisimov is that Tortorella sure likes to drive 5 or 6 forwards into the ground, and Anisimov isnt one of him which makes icetime an issue.

Dubinsky, by the way, is one of Torts' horses that will run for 20-25 minutes a night.

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03-07-2010, 11:23 AM
  #45
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I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thought he was putrid tonight. If he can't find any consistency to his game, he'll find his ass out of New York so fast it'll make his head spin.
lol you're kidding right? Inconsistency seems to be what keeps you in New York.

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03-07-2010, 11:26 AM
  #46
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Dubinsky can be had for the right price however he is a good player and he hasn't reached his potential yet and that's why other teams are always asking for him. The problem with trading guys like him or Callahan is the eventuality that replacing either of them probably comes through the free agent market. That's why we have to hold on to guys like that and live with their development. We can't afford to keep paying elite dollars to guys not worth the money we give them just because we have holes to fill.
Excellent post.

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Old
03-07-2010, 11:29 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
The problem with Dubinsky is consistency. Even though he has more talent and skill than Callahan, that is why he isn't quite as valuable. Callahan doesn't disappear for shifts, and he certainly is never invisible for an entire game. Dubinsky does both fairly regularly. That's what is frustrating about him.

Also, some of the great things about his game when he first came into the league seem to have vanished as he's tried to expand his repertoire. He doesn't seem to be able to/want to retain those elements, which is also frustrating. If you're physical, and you're trying to add offense, you don't want to lose the physicality. Sometimes, that's what seems to be happening with him.
I agree with this post pretty much 100%.

But at the same time, Dubinsky clearly has more pressure on him to perform offensively because of the more natural attributes he possesses over a guy like Callahan. Callahan has settled into the role you described extraordinarily nicely. I also think if Dubinsky was asked to play the same role, he'd do it pretty well. But there was the contract situation and all the talk that he'd center Gaborik...like you said, I think it did sort of cause him to get caught between a finesse playmaker and a power forward. Callahan knows hes a bulldog, and since he doesnt possess the same puckhandling skills or the same vision as Dubinsky, he knows he has to crash to be effective and he brings it every night.

I know you hate Jokinen, but I think his arrival has really helped Dubinsky realize he needs to play with that same type of grinding intensity every single night. Moving to the wing also helps that out...hes been shooting more and feeling less that he has to be a distributor I suppose. If that could be his game every night, I think the other things will come more naturally, and that he could top out as a 60 point player/tough SOB to play against if everything comes together.

I also think what gets lost in this is that, until further notice (at least for the next year) Dubinsky and Callahan are indispensable parts of this organization...part of the core, in fact. And given our cap situation and their sweetheart deals for next season, I dont think we should entertain the idea of getting rid of either one right now.

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03-07-2010, 11:29 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Dubi has been pretty bad for a few games now. He's potted some goals, but has not played well. That's the difference between Anisimov and Dubinsky, AA plays great games, doesn't put up goals, and people call him a bust. Dubi plays like crap, pots a goal or 2, and people call him untouchable.
They are still both young, though Dubi less so. There will be bouts of low productivity, we have to deal with it. I am not opposed to trading any player as long as it makes us better both in the now, and in the long term. Dubi is no exception.
Can't agree with you on this one at all. Anisimov flat out dissapears for lenghty periods of time. He gets outworked. He is late to the puck and positionally gets owned along the boards. Dubi from time to ttime has a bad game, but overall I think he is still part of the glue. Ani as a rook I can't say the same for.

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03-07-2010, 12:18 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Best post in the thread.

Dubinsky scores 15 goals in 50 games, a career high in 32 less games played than his previous seasons, and gets zero recognition for it.

It's almost as if playing with Jagr was a curse for Dubinsky. His expectations were raised for him to put up 1st line center type numbers when he was always projected to be nothing more than a 2nd line center. I also think a lot of people are bitter towards Dubinsky because of his holdout.

Most Rangers fans won't be satisfied until Dubinsky is traded, and refuse to realize that Dubinsky is actually improving when compared to his previous seasons in the league. It's quite sad.
The thing that really confuses me is why Dubinsky has become such a polarizing player within our fan base. I think you bring up a good point about the sour feelings that have lingered from his holdout. Which is strange to me since some of the most beloved Ranger greats Messier/Richter, had nasty contracts negotiations. Messier left the Rangers over money, which people seem to forget.

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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I also think what gets lost in this is that, until further notice (at least for the next year) Dubinsky and Callahan are indispensable parts of this organization...part of the core, in fact. And given our cap situation and their sweetheart deals for next season, I dont think we should entertain the idea of getting rid of either one right now.
Agreed 100%.

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03-07-2010, 01:12 PM
  #50
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lol you're kidding right? Inconsistency seems to be what keeps you in New York.
Get a GM in here who changes the culture of this team, then yes, I do see Dubi moved unless he develops some sort of consistency to his game.

Sting man, you nailed it in your post. Exactly my feelings.

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