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Old
03-08-2010, 06:10 PM
  #101
arab27
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Its funny if Dubi was on the Devils every Rags fan would be jealous that we didn't have him. Let the kid develop, he wont be a superstar in this league but he is very capable of being a top 2nd line center in the NHL. If you look around the NHL tons of today's All Stars didnt break out till their 3rd or 4th year. I feel Dubi is right there ready to breakout, just give him some talent and a good system.

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03-08-2010, 06:31 PM
  #102
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Dubinsky has a good shot of scoring 20 goals this year and he has missed quite a few games with his injury. He has been one of the rangers better players and really has thrived playing the wing. I dont understand all the complaints about him. I guess for whatever reasons some people just dont like him.
Yeah Dubinsky really is a very good player and people wanting to ditch him because he's "not very good" aren't very good at this hockey thing.

Would I trade him for a superstar? Yeah. I wouldn't trade him for much else though

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03-08-2010, 06:37 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Ice Hockey View Post
if dubinsky wasn't so overrated nobody would ***** about him.

people were saying, "future captain" from day 1 and it's been all downhill from then on.

he's just not that good. trade him before everyone figures that out, if they haven't already. or offer him what he's WORTH when his contract expires.
Downhill? He has gotten better every season thus far

I don't think Dubinsky is overrated at all

edit: If he played out the games he missed, Dubinsky would be on pace for 24 goals, 27 assists and 53 points. That's pretty damn good


Last edited by ThirdEye: 03-08-2010 at 06:49 PM.
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03-08-2010, 07:45 PM
  #104
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Here's a fun trivia question. Who was the last Rangers forward draft pick to score at least 80 points in a season for the Rangers?

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03-08-2010, 07:48 PM
  #105
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Here's a fun trivia question. Who was the last Rangers forward draft pick to score at least 80 points in a season for the Rangers?
Tomas Sandstrom?

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03-08-2010, 07:51 PM
  #106
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Tomas Sandstrom?


1982 draft pick. He had 88 points in the 1988 season.

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03-08-2010, 07:58 PM
  #107
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Fun trivia for those who like pain - Ranger fans !

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03-08-2010, 08:02 PM
  #108
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Fun trivia for those who like pain - Ranger fans !
Want more?

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03-08-2010, 08:20 PM
  #109
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1982 draft pick. He had 88 points in the 1988 season.
That is truly pathetic.

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Old
03-08-2010, 09:18 PM
  #110
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speaking of Dubinsky this is kind of interesting:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs...rticle1450621/

He's 7th on the list of the best defensive forwards in the NHL using some stats voodoo that I don't understand. Now I'm sure the argument will be that "you can't use stats like that in hockey" but whatever

Marc Staal is 9th on the list for best defensive defenseman in the NHL

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03-08-2010, 10:05 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
speaking of Dubinsky this is kind of interesting:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs...rticle1450621/

He's 7th on the list of the best defensive forwards in the NHL using some stats voodoo that I don't understand. Now I'm sure the argument will be that "you can't use stats like that in hockey" but whatever

Marc Staal is 9th on the list for best defensive defenseman in the NHL
Interesting that Dubi is on that list while Cally and Drury are nowhere to be found. I think the consensus around here would say that Cally and Drury are better defensively than Dubi.

However, while Drury and Cally are still money on the PK, I think their play at even strength has suffered a bit this season. I'm still not sure what they were doing during Kaleta's OT goal last night.

Dubi is prone to making bad turnovers in his own zone every now and then, but I think the reason why he is a +9 is due to his puck possession skills. He manages to spend more time in the offensive zone because he is strong on the puck, and his line doesn't get pinned in the defensive zone as much as some of the other lines.

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Old
03-08-2010, 11:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
What part of "he's a 21 year old rookie" are you not understanding?

Of course we were hoping he'd light it up, but most of us weren't expecting it. If you were, then that's your fault, not AA's.
Look around the league and see what other teams 21 year old rookies are doing. Yeah I expected more from our most touted prospect for the last two years. It was said in preseason he had to be an offensive player to make this team, which he was, in preseason. Not so much since then. The guy we saw in Sept is not the same guy skating out there lately.

If this is his best game he is not NHL ready. If he isn't bringing his best i'm not sure what he's waiting for. I wanna see the AA from the fall, not the guy with the smelling salts since then.

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03-08-2010, 11:18 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I went in hoping for something along the lines of 15-15-30. He's on pace for 12-14-26. If the team around him wasn't so impotent offensively, he'd probably hit 30 points easy. He's done pretty much what I expected.

What did the organization expect of him? I honestly don't know. I don't know what he expected of himself, either. But he's 21 and in his third season in North America, an NHL rookie on a crappy team...I think he's doing/done just fine.
Wow you have very low expectations don't you. If thats what you were hoping for from our top prospect i'm not sure what you are hoping for from the lower guys. 5 goal season a good thing for them I guess?

You don't realize he was expected by the team to be an offensive player? Guess you missed preseason because it was pointed out if he made the team thats the kind of player he had to be. And thats the kind of player he was, in preseason. Not since then on any consistant basis. Where is the talent that got him on this roster? I wanna see this guy bring his game to the lvl it was at in Sept, whats wrong with that?

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Old
03-08-2010, 11:21 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Look around the league and see what other teams 21 year old rookies are doing. Yeah I expected more from our most touted prospect for the last two years. It was said in preseason he had to be an offensive player to make this team, which he was, in preseason. Not so much since then. The guy we saw in Sept is not the same guy skating out there lately.

If this is his best game he is not NHL ready. If he isn't bringing his best i'm not sure what he's waiting for. I wanna see the AA from the fall, not the guy with the smelling salts since then.
I think this prove the opposite. Artem is 9th in scoring for rookie forwards while getting less ice team than most of the people above him and with virtually no powerplay time. I think he spoiled us a little bit in the preseason but he's going to keep improving once he gets acclimated to the NHL game. He's going to be a solid player and I haven't seen any evidence to make me believe otherwise.

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Old
03-08-2010, 11:54 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I agree that fans give up a bit too early, but the Rangers, for as long as I can remember, haven't had that kid come on at 20 or 21 years old and be a sensation on his own; something other teams seem to have had over the last however many years. There has been bust after bust and mediocre player after mediocre player. It's tough to not get jaded from time to time if you've been following the team for a while.
I know....been a fan since the 60's.

The Rangers had crap scouts and the worst player dev system in the lg ...thats changed the last couple of years.

MDZ is 19 and has had a god impact ...running the PP....looks like plenty more to come.

I m also glad they seem to not be rushing the kids up the the NHL ..,,also happy that almost every kid that comes through the org knows how to play the right way...almost if not every kid that comes up plays hard and plays both ends of the ice.

This org if finally valuing youth!!!

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Old
03-08-2010, 11:57 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by morffin View Post
I know....been a fan since the 60's.

The Rangers had crap scouts and the worst player dev system in the lg ...thats changed the last couple of years.

MDZ is 19 and has had a god impact ...running the PP....looks like plenty more to come.

I m also glad they seem to not be rushing the kids up the the NHL ..,,also happy that almost every kid that comes through the org knows how to play the right way...almost if not every kid that comes up plays hard and plays both ends of the ice.

This org if finally valuing youth!!!
But if you ask some of the guys who post on here, none of our prospects are worth jack **** because they aren't sure-fire, can't miss first line players who will score 100 points a season...

though I really don't know what to think anymore because Grachev had everyone swinging from his nuts in july and now because he is hitting the learning curve in Hartford a lot of people have jumped ship...the same happened to Bobby Sangs and the same will happen to Stepan and Kreider if they aren't scoring 40 goals in the NHL by 2012...

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03-09-2010, 12:12 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
But if you ask some of the guys who post on here, none of our prospects are worth jack **** because they aren't sure-fire, can't miss first line players who will score 100 points a season...

though I really don't know what to think anymore because Grachev had everyone swinging from his nuts in july and now because he is hitting the learning curve in Hartford a lot of people have jumped ship...the same happened to Bobby Sangs and the same will happen to Stepan and Kreider if they aren't scoring 40 goals in the NHL by 2012...
most of our fellow fans are mired in the echo chamber of negativity that is Rangerland ...this org has gotten its act together last couple of years and very few people seem to be taking notice....org has been a nightmare from top to bottom for decades so you really cant blame people for expecting the worst all the time.

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03-09-2010, 12:15 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by morffin View Post
most of our fellow fans are mired in the echo chamber of negativity that is Rangerland ...this org has gotten its act together last couple of years and very few people seem to be taking notice....org has been a nightmare from top to bottom for decades so you really cant blame people for expecting the worst all the time.
True. I for one am pretty excited about our current batch of prospects.

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03-09-2010, 12:19 AM
  #119
morffin
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True. I for one am pretty excited about our current batch of prospects.
me too...not just the prospects but the fact that the rangers are finally putting real value on youth... the front office took the worst and oldest farm and prospects and turned it into one of the best in the lg.... and did it all w/o tanking ...and did it in a relatively short amount of time. And its just the beginning...the financial resources this org has will build the best front office and player dev system in the lg.

Bright future.

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03-09-2010, 12:22 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by morffin View Post
me too...not just the prospects but the fact that the rangers are finally putting real value on youth... the front office took the worst and oldest farm and prospects and turned it into one of the best in the lg.... and did it all w/o tanking ...and did it in a relatively short amount of time. And its just the beginning...the financial resources this org has will build the best front office and player dev system in the lg.

Bright future.
Thank you for posting this. Too many people around here can't see this. They are too worried about the fact that we didn't trade for Kovalchuk, or the fact that Anisimov doesn't have 50 points as a 21 year old rookie, or the fact that Dubi hasn't hit 70 points yet.

It's nice to see someone who recognizes that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE this organization has some sort of plan moving forward...

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03-09-2010, 12:24 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Interesting that Dubi is on that list while Cally and Drury are nowhere to be found. I think the consensus around here would say that Cally and Drury are better defensively than Dubi.

However, while Drury and Cally are still money on the PK, I think their play at even strength has suffered a bit this season. I'm still not sure what they were doing during Kaleta's OT goal last night.

Dubi is prone to making bad turnovers in his own zone every now and then, but I think the reason why he is a +9 is due to his puck possession skills. He manages to spend more time in the offensive zone because he is strong on the puck, and his line doesn't get pinned in the defensive zone as much as some of the other lines.
That list is really subjective, and while many of those forwards do belong on a list like that, a few stand out like sore thumbs, while some very obvious choices (including Callahan and Drury) are missing.

The fact that Dubi spends a lot of time in the other teams zone is true. That doesn't make him a great defensive forward. He happens to be a pretty good one, though not as good as either Callahan or Drury, but controlling the puck doesn't make him great defensively.

Unfortunately for a guy like Dubinsky, he can hold on to the puck, he just can't do anything with it consistently enough to be a big-time player.

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03-09-2010, 12:24 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Thank you for posting this. Too many people around here can't see this. They are too worried about the fact that we didn't trade for Kovalchuk, or the fact that Anisimov doesn't have 50 points as a 21 year old rookie, or the fact that Dubi hasn't hit 70 points yet.

It's nice to see someone who recognizes that MAYBE, JUST MAYBE this organization has some sort of plan moving forward...
same here...im sure youre like me...feel like were screaming into the void. I really do think we are on the cusp of the golden age of rangers hockey....glad to have some company.

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03-09-2010, 01:16 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
That list is really subjective, and while many of those forwards do belong on a list like that, a few stand out like sore thumbs, while some very obvious choices (including Callahan and Drury) are missing.

The fact that Dubi spends a lot of time in the other teams zone is true. That doesn't make him a great defensive forward. He happens to be a pretty good one, though not as good as either Callahan or Drury, but controlling the puck doesn't make him great defensively.

Unfortunately for a guy like Dubinsky, he can hold on to the puck, he just can't do anything with it consistently enough to be a big-time player.
I agree for the most part, and I certainly don't think that this list is an accurate in terms of ranking the best defensive forwards in the league.

I like Mirtle's statistical analysis, but the problem with it is that there are so many unquantifiable aspects in analyzing a hockey player that his lists are bound to be flawed. The fact that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are left off this list means that stats alone don't tell the picture. There's no stat that can accurately measure the ability to shut down an opponent, and those 2 players are probably the best shutdown forwards in the league.

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03-09-2010, 05:57 AM
  #124
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it's not "subjective" if it's stats based, it'd be more accurate to say it's measuring things that you don't think of as things that make someone a good defensive player.

I think it's not the greatest measure of a players defensive abilities, but it shows something useful and interesting about a guy like Dubinsky. One way or another he is an effective defensive player while putting up a decent amount of points.

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03-09-2010, 08:32 AM
  #125
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Maybe it's just me but I have a difficult time picking on the younger guys. The criticism on Dubinsky it seems is he's probably not going to be a legit 1st line player.
The same criticism applies as well to Callahan, Anisimov, probably Grachev and most likely Stepan. Brandon had 40 some points as a rookie pro in Hartford. He had 40 points as an NHL rookie the next year with an elite player (Jagr) much of that time on his wing. He had pretty much the same last year--only without Jagr and this year we could pro-rate him around 50 + this year. So he's still improving offensively and in the meantime he's become a regular on the pk. He's also played well in the playoffs. Yeah--he is not as consistent as Callahan but Callahan isn't without a few negatives of his own--For instance his unscreened long shots coming off of the boards don't often wind up in the net. He's less a playmaker than Dubinsky as well. Anisimov needs a little more meat and muscle. Some patience is needed. The elite guys we loaded up with in the past couldn't always carry us into the playoffs either. Just not really interested in getting rid of Dubinsky at this point in time. As far as I'm concerned he's a part of a possible solution--but he's not going to do it alone.

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