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Old
05-03-2004, 08:52 AM
  #1
tytech
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Reflection on a couple of main board threads

This was awhile back and I'm not sure how many of you go into that section but two threads were;

Is Macabe a 1-2 defensman? I was on there ripping how many times he gave the puck away and if we was on another team besides the make me laughs he wouldn't be a 1-2. I guess the last two games where it's counted most he gets three assists for the other team on giveaway's alone, not to mention his crying after brashear's pushoff.

The other debate is was who you would rather have at this point in their careers. Nieuwendyk or Prmieau? You wouldn't believe how many said Niewy. I guess these people were all leaf fans and if not they are all suffering together.

Go Flyers!

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05-03-2004, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
This was awhile back and I'm not sure how many of you go into that section but two threads were;

Is Macabe a 1-2 defensman? I was on there ripping how many times he gave the puck away and if we was on another team besides the make me laughs he wouldn't be a 1-2. I guess the last two games where it's counted most he gets three assists for the other team on giveaway's alone, not to mention his crying after brashear's pushoff.

The other debate is was who you would rather have at this point in their careers. Nieuwendyk or Prmieau? You wouldn't believe how many said Niewy. I guess these people were all leaf fans and if not they are all suffering together.

Go Flyers!
I still think McCabe is a #1 or #2 dman, he plays hard and has a great shot...for some reason he is much better in the ACC then anywhere else.

As far as Prims...at this point inthier careers I would take Primeau as well but Nieuwy is one of the most cluth playoff performers in the last 2 decades so I can't knock him.

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Old
05-03-2004, 09:09 AM
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You can't really compare Nieuwendyk and Primeau. They bring totally different games to the table.

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Old
05-03-2004, 09:35 AM
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I think a much better comparison is Zhamnov to Nieuwendyke.

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Old
05-03-2004, 09:37 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogilny8989
You can't really compare Nieuwendyk and Primeau. They bring totally different games to the table.
I didn't bring this to the table. Like I mentionned, this was a twelve page debate on the main board roughly two months back. Regardless of what they bring who would you rather have. It wasn't talking about who was better offensively or defensively it was, who would you rather have.

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05-03-2004, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tytech
I didn't bring this to the table. Like I mentionned, this was a twelve page debate on the main board roughly two months back. Regardless of what they bring who would you rather have. It wasn't talking about who was better offensively or defensively it was, who would you rather have.
Two months back? Then it makes more sense, since Primeau had 7 goals in the regular season.

 
Old
05-03-2004, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by nordique
Two months back? Then it makes more sense, since Primeau had 7 goals in the regular season.
I can see why these people take for the leafs. Once again I'll say--it wasn't a debate over who was better offensively or defensively. Obviously Prims-def. and Joe- off but it was about value etc.. Two months ago, 7 goals or not, it wasn't a secret how valuable Prims was. Anyone remember the all star nod?

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Old
05-03-2004, 10:16 AM
  #8
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Bryhand McGrenade is quite possibly the worst puckhandling d-man on the Leafs. See the most hated players by team thread on the NHL talk board; he was my Leafs choice. http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...&postcount=104 Funny thing, a female poster here that ran into him at a bar complained about his hands for completely different reasons.
The guy has a howitzer and can play physical, but he cannot handle any pressure, has no discipline whatsoever, and has limited hockey smarts.


Last edited by MacDaddy TLC*: 05-03-2004 at 10:27 AM.
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Old
05-03-2004, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
Funny thing, a female poster here that ran into him at a bar complained about his hands for completely different reasons.

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Old
05-03-2004, 01:15 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech
This was awhile back and I'm not sure how many of you go into that section but two threads were;
Go Flyers!
I remember a debate after the '02 season on us trading Brind'Amour for Primeau. I'd say 65-35 in favor of Brindy. Ha.

I was behind Primeau all along, Brind'Amour was just on a team that had its' act together, so he naturally looked like the better player then.

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Old
05-03-2004, 03:35 PM
  #11
nordique
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Originally Posted by tytech
I can see why these people take for the leafs. Once again I'll say--it wasn't a debate over who was better offensively or defensively. Obviously Prims-def. and Joe- off but it was about value etc.. Two months ago, 7 goals or not, it wasn't a secret how valuable Prims was. Anyone remember the all star nod?
I also remember that the All-Star nod was considered a joke by fans of all teams.

Primeau's an excellent player, no doubt, but he was basically a bigger version of Jere Lehtinen or Mike Peca, skilled defensively but with no finish. Nieuwendyk's a strong player at both ends of the ice and performed as such.

As a Leaf fan, I would have traded Nieuwy for Primeau only because of the age difference, but I would have taken Nieuwy for my team for the playoffs over Primeau. If Joe had a healthy back, I probably still would, he's got six goals despite missing four playoff games. However, Primeau is definitely a beast and someone I'd love to have.

When you're debating forwards, usually offensive stats are a good indicator.

 
Old
05-03-2004, 04:42 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordique
When you're debating forwards, usually offensive stats are a good indicator.
Not in today's NHL my friend. Without Primeau, this team is a sub .500 team, with him, they are contenders for the No.1 seed. Plain and simple. Also can never underestimate leadership. Plus, if you are talking forward stats, Sundin was the only forward on the Leafs above 55 points I believe.

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Old
05-03-2004, 06:21 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Not in today's NHL my friend. Without Primeau, this team is a sub .500 team, with him, they are contenders for the No.1 seed. Plain and simple. Also can never underestimate leadership. Plus, if you are talking forward stats, Sundin was the only forward on the Leafs above 55 points I believe.
In comparing Nieuwendyk to Primeau, can you really say Primeau is a *better* leader?

They're both good leaders, for sure, but Nieuwendyk's won three Stanley Cups with three different organizations as well as an Olympic gold medal and a Conn Smythe Trophy.

He's also a lot older than Primeau, so Keith has time to establish himself. Nieuwy gets the benefit of the doubt because he's more of a veteran and has led teams to the promised land. Primeau's got a Cup as well, but that was in the early stages of his career when he was considered a malcontent in Detroit (I wouldnt give Nieuwy credit for "leading" Calgary to the 1989 cup either).

Keith's only real edges on Nieuwendyk (clear edges) are his size/physical play and his youth. Other than that, they're either relatively equal or Nieuwendyk could be considered the superior player (goal scoring, veteran experience, faceoffs).

Both guys I would want on my team anyday.

 
Old
05-03-2004, 06:47 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Not in today's NHL my friend. Without Primeau, this team is a sub .500 team, with him, they are contenders for the No.1 seed. Plain and simple. Also can never underestimate leadership. Plus, if you are talking forward stats, Sundin was the only forward on the Leafs above 55 points I believe.
The Flyers are not a sub .500 team without Primeau. I think your forgetting how stacked this team is. Would Primeau's loss drop us out of contention? Perhaps yes, but to suggest that this team doesn't even make the playoffs without him is a little far fetched.

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Old
05-03-2004, 08:25 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces
The Flyers are not a sub .500 team without Primeau. I think your forgetting how stacked this team is. Would Primeau's loss drop us out of contention? Perhaps yes, but to suggest that this team doesn't even make the playoffs without him is a little far fetched.




If we'd lost him for the season we wouldn't have beaten Jersey IMO...If I had to choose between losing Preems or Esche right now it'd be Esche. Primeau givrs us an edge every game...score or not. that's for the captain.

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Old
05-03-2004, 08:40 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces
The Flyers are not a sub .500 team without Primeau. I think your forgetting how stacked this team is. Would Primeau's loss drop us out of contention? Perhaps yes, but to suggest that this team doesn't even make the playoffs without him is a little far fetched.
Maybe I exaggerated a bit, but I remember that first stretch of 7 or so games when he was out and the flyers didn't win a game.

Nordique, you forgot to mentiont that Primeau, when healthy, is arguably the best defensive center in the NHL.

See: Mats Sundin, Patrik Elias. Neither have really scored when matched up against Preems.

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Old
05-03-2004, 08:43 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordique
Primeau's an excellent player, no doubt, but he was basically a bigger version of Jere Lehtinen or Mike Peca, skilled defensively but with no finish.
After Sunday's game, I'm not sure you can say Primeau has no finish.

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Old
05-04-2004, 12:10 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Nordique, you forgot to mentiont that Primeau, when healthy, is arguably the best defensive center in the NHL.
He sure is good...but I've never heard him referred to by anybody as being *that* good. Not one of those names that crops up in Selke talk, rightly or wrongly.

CarlRacki, as I said, we're talking about a poll that was two months ago, so as I said, at that time Primeau still had 7 goals in the regular season, and good D or not good D, that's a horrible stat especially when surrounded by so much talent as KP is. For what it's worth, Tie Domi had 7 goals this year. Alex Mogilny had 8 in 37 games. Tom Fitzgerald had 7. Ponikarovsky had 9. Matt Stajan, a rookie, had 14.

I use Leafs as comparison only because I know them off the top of my head.

Preems should be at least a 20-goal guy every year...though if he produces like this in the playoffs I guess it doesn't matter.

 
Old
05-04-2004, 03:21 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordique
Preems should be at least a 20-goal guy every year...though if he produces like this in the playoffs I guess it doesn't matter.
He has been a "twenty goal guy" for his entire career. While it's true he has only done it 6 times (in 15 seasons), he has gotten 19 twice, and had the pace to achieve atleast 20 twice again yet in injury shortened seasons. Obviously he was a "twenty goal guy" 10 of 15 seasons. Not bad for a guy who has always been used on a third or checking line (until he went to the "talented" Whalers). Primeau's physical play separates him from Nieuwendyk to a similar degree that Nieuwendyk's offensive play separates him from Primeau. If I had to choose which one I would have liked to have seen on the Habs' third line for the last ten years, I would have said Primeau, as we need big talented bodies. If I were a Bruins fan, I'd probably say Nieuwendyk, as they could have used the offense.

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