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Great idea not to sell, Murray

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Old
03-07-2010, 10:04 PM
  #1
jax00
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Great idea not to sell, Murray

This team clearly has what it takes to make the playoffs.
Nevermind the prospects and picks we could have gotten from dealing Niedermayer, Koivu, Wisniewski, Marchant, etc.

Oh, and fire Carlyle.

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03-07-2010, 10:09 PM
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iLau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
This team clearly has what it takes to make the playoffs.
Nevermind the prospects and picks we could have gotten from dealing Niedermayer, Koivu, Wisniewski, Marchant, etc.

Oh, and fire Carlyle.
C'mon now. People want a defenseman, he gets you a defenseman. It was a gamble and he went for it. It's incredible how people just change their minds. If we do end up getting to the playoffs, threads about him being a genius would just appear everywhere.

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03-07-2010, 10:13 PM
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Dirk316
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Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
This team clearly has what it takes to make the playoffs.
Nevermind the prospects and picks we could have gotten from dealing Niedermayer, Koivu, Wisniewski, Marchant, etc.

Oh, and fire Murray.
agreed except for 1 thing i had to fix for you

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03-07-2010, 10:13 PM
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jax00
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Originally Posted by iLau View Post
C'mon now. People want a defenseman, he gets you a defenseman. It was a gamble and he went for it. It's incredible how people just change their minds. If we do end up getting to the playoffs, threads about him being a genius would just appear everywhere.
Changed my mind? I was never crazy about his moves.

And he did get a defenseman. But he gave up another one, forcing garbage players like Eminger, Ward, or Brookbank to play top 4.

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03-07-2010, 10:14 PM
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Meh. There's a very decent chance all of these guys come back(if we want them, that is), and realistically, there probably wasn't much value to make it worth it. I highly doubt there's a great market for Wiz, Marchant's a wildcard, and with both Koivu and Niedermayer, not only is there doubt that the value is there for those guys, but doubt that the value would've been worth almost definitely losing those guys for next season.

Nothing wrong with going for it. Chances are it wouldn't have affected our draft position anyway. And I don't think a long-term rebuild would be a step in the right direction at all for this team.

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03-07-2010, 10:15 PM
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For every good move Murray makes (Visnovsky, Chipchura etc) it seems he makes an equally as bad one (failing to address the lack of a physical shutdown defenseman all season long, trading Pronger, not trading Niedermayer etc).

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to seeing him gone, hopefully the Samueli's are as commited to winning as they said they were and they do something about the mess this season was.

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03-07-2010, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
This team clearly has what it takes to make the playoffs.
Nevermind the prospects and picks we could have gotten from dealing Niedermayer, Koivu, Wisniewski, Marchant, etc.

Oh, and fire Carlyle.
Well on the bright side, at least he didn't give away any real assets while buying.

So you'd only be missing out on a) the higher pick if we had sold and sucked and b) the assets from trading away Koivu and maybe Wiz.

Rightly or wrongly, he wasn't going to move Niedermayer or Selanne. Marchant isn't an expiring UFA, so he's probably not moved either.

Visnovsky is just as long term an asset as what we gave away, so that's a wash.

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03-07-2010, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
agreed except for 1 thing i had to fix for you
It's not necassarily that he's a bad coach. It's just obvious the players don't listen to him anymore.

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03-07-2010, 10:23 PM
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The only thing I dont agree with is the non trading of Niedermayer, but Burke did the same type of "loyalty" thing with Bryz and I was fine with it so it would be hypocritical of me now to dismiss Murray for this.

Ultimately, it comes down to the players, and they've blown two highly winnable games, if they win those two we arent making these threads. Just chill and ride out the storm instead of panicking like everybody else on these boards.

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03-07-2010, 10:27 PM
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The only thing I dont agree with is the non trading of Niedermayer, but Burke did the same type of "loyalty" thing with Bryz and I was fine with it so it would be hypocritical of me now to dismiss Murray for this.

Ultimately, it comes down to the players, and they've blown two highly winnable games, if they win those two we arent making these threads. Just chill and ride out the storm instead of panicking like everybody else on these boards.
We've been riding the storm out the entire season.

Look where that's gotten the team.

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03-07-2010, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
agreed except for 1 thing i had to fix for you
Or you could just let this team develop. When Bob Murray was promoted to General Manager after Brian Burke left to Toronto, Murray was faced with a messy salary cap. The most important part of the last off-season was to get out of it so that the organization would have as much flexibility to establish a team in the future. Murray accomplished some of it and he further did it this past trade deadline. Now the pressure is on him this upcoming off-season with the available defensemen in free agency. If nothing comes out of this off-season defensively, then yes he deserves the heat/or adios. I do find it hilarious that Murray gets more criticism from you than Carlyle even though Murray has only had control for only a year and the fact that he shares the same view of Carlyle as you do.

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03-07-2010, 10:34 PM
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Honestly, if you were Koivu, Selanne, Neids......would you really want to sign up for 1 more year of this? Since we didn't trade them for anything....they will retire Ducks....during this summer.

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03-07-2010, 10:34 PM
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I say fire them both.

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03-07-2010, 10:37 PM
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Honestly, if you were Koivu, Selanne, Neids......would you really want to sign up for 1 more year of this? Since we didn't trade them for anything....they will retire Ducks....during this summer.
I think Selanne's probably done. The other two, not so much. I definitely think Koivu will be back, and I imagine Niedermayer's on the fence. At this point, I think they definitely want to play, and if thats the case, it'll be here.

Also worth mentioning, I imagine if we trade Niedermayer and Koivu, neither comes back. Koivu, I suppose there would be a chance, but I think he'd explore his options. As for Niedermayer, if we trade him, I imagine that's it for him. If both are back next season, holding onto them was definitely a good move.

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03-07-2010, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
We've been riding the storm out the entire season.

Look where that's gotten the team.
As a fan of a team in transition, I dont know what you were expecting. One season of mediocrity is hardly a storm anyhow. Missing the playoffs is probably best for the team anyway, we need to restock with talent that can either be grown and plugged in or traded for more established talent. This really isnt that bad, its not like the team is three years away from being competitive.

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03-07-2010, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
I think Selanne's probably done. The other two, not so much. I definitely think Koivu will be back, and I imagine Niedermayer's on the fence. At this point, I think they definitely want to play, and if thats the case, it'll be here.

Also worth mentioning, I imagine if we trade Niedermayer and Koivu, neither comes back. Koivu, I suppose there would be a chance, but I think he'd explore his options. As for Niedermayer, if we trade him, I imagine that's it for him. If both are back next season, holding onto them was definitely a good move.
Well, Niedermayer's game this year sure says, "that's it" for at least Anaheim.

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03-07-2010, 10:41 PM
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I realy wouldn't mind Niedermayer not coming back. Time for the defense to head in another direction.

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03-07-2010, 10:44 PM
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It's pretty common that a player in their late 30's would like their team to be a contender and not a rebuilder as their time is running out.

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03-07-2010, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Papaspud View Post
Honestly, if you were Koivu, Selanne, Neids......would you really want to sign up for 1 more year of this? Since we didn't trade them for anything....they will retire Ducks....during this summer.
their lack of heart is contributing to this

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03-07-2010, 11:07 PM
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Jax has been added to the ignore list.

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03-07-2010, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
I think Selanne's probably done. The other two, not so much. I definitely think Koivu will be back, and I imagine Niedermayer's on the fence. At this point, I think they definitely want to play, and if thats the case, it'll be here.

Also worth mentioning, I imagine if we trade Niedermayer and Koivu, neither comes back. Koivu, I suppose there would be a chance, but I think he'd explore his options. As for Niedermayer, if we trade him, I imagine that's it for him. If both are back next season, holding onto them was definitely a good move.
That's a good point. But that's also under the assumption that the team intends to compete next year, which may or may not be feasible. So then you'd have to say "if both are back next season and the team makes the playoffs, then it was a good move."

From a GM's standpoint, I can understand. Its extremely hard to pull the plug when you still think you have a chance. You don't want to do it too early. But if you don't do it at all, then your team is now over the hill, barren from buying trades you've made, and you're left with nothing as guys just retire without recouping any assets.

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03-08-2010, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DasWunderkind View Post
Or you could just let this team develop. When Bob Murray was promoted to General Manager after Brian Burke left to Toronto, Murray was faced with a messy salary cap. The most important part of the last off-season was to get out of it so that the organization would have as much flexibility to establish a team in the future. Murray accomplished some of it and he further did it this past trade deadline. Now the pressure is on him this upcoming off-season with the available defensemen in free agency. If nothing comes out of this off-season defensively, then yes he deserves the heat/or adios. I do find it hilarious that Murray gets more criticism from you than Carlyle even though Murray has only had control for only a year and the fact that he shares the same view of Carlyle as you do.
The reason i blame im not blaming Carlyle is because every year he's been coach this team has made the playoffs, we won a cup and had 2 other deep playoff runs. He gets some leeway. Murray on the other hand has decimated the reason we where successful and that is having a strong defense. We will finish the year without a single big physical shutdown Defenseman. We may actually be the only team in the league without 1 and most teams have 2+
That is incompetence imo.
I also think Murray would fire Carlyle as most GM's want their own coaches but the ownership does not want to lose Carlyle
Proven winner and success > someone who hasnt accomplished anything yet

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03-08-2010, 12:45 AM
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I'm all for arguing about the decision not to sell, but don't blame our defense for tonight. They weren't amazing or anything, but they definitely weren't at fault IMO. Lubo was great, and I thought Ward was pretty damn good too, and he played as the 4th defensemen. I actually thought our top 4 played solid. Eminger blows no question.

Murray puzzles me a lot of the time. He's made some of the best moves, followed by some of the worst. Murray was between a rock and a hard place though. Personally I don't think he did a bad job at the deadline. I admit I wanted him to either buy or sell at the deadline, but look what he did. He added Lubo for Whitney which was an incredible move on his part. He added Ward, who I thought looked pretty damn good in a top 4 role tonight. And he didn't give up anything. Yes I would have liked him to add another top 4 defensemen, but when you consider that Ward cost us nothing and he's like a 4/5, who played well today in the 4th spot I might add. That's a pretty good deadline.

I know many of you think we should have sold at the deadline, and to be honest, I kinda wanted to as well, but look at where this team was. 3 points out of a playoff spot. Do you think Murray is going to be able to explain to the owners that selling was the best, when we were barely out of the playoff picture, this is probably 2 of the all time great Ducks last seasons? Not to mention the hockey market is already low here in Anaheim. Selling when you're only 3 points out would have been a mistake to some degree. I know that more intelligent fans like we have here know that selling would probably have been the best thing, but let's face it, most Anaheim fans don't know that.

What I worry about is the direction this team is headed. I'm not just specicially talking about the 3 scoring lines, etc... This game has shown me more than ever that our star young players (RPG) thrive off of physical games with a lot of energy. Murray seems to be going away from that. We have to have more physical games with more fights for this team to succeed. I know that in the line thread I said I didn't like goons like Brown and parros getting 3 minutes a night, but after watching tonights game, maybe that's exactly what we need. Maybe that's what RPG responds to?

One thing is certain though: Our fortunes will not change unless Perry and Getzlaf rediscover that fire they have had their whole careers here in Anaheim.

Sorry if the grammar or what not is messed up in this thread. I've been up for 26 hours straight and I'm seeing double.

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03-08-2010, 12:56 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Dirk316 View Post
The reason i blame im not blaming Carlyle is because every year he's been coach this team has made the playoffs, we won a cup and had 2 other deep playoff runs. He gets some leeway. Murray on the other hand has decimated the reason we where successful and that is having a strong defense. We will finish the year without a single big physical shutdown Defenseman. We may actually be the only team in the league without 1 and most teams have 2+
That is incompetence imo.
I also think Murray would fire Carlyle as most GM's want their own coaches but the ownership does not want to lose Carlyle
Proven winner and success > someone who hasnt accomplished anything yet
Under Brian Burke, I consider 2005-06 & 2006-07 a success. However, I can also argue that he decimated the club's offense to improve the defense. In most cases, you need to tear something down in order to build something else back up. It is obvious that the current defense is weak, however, we had plenty of salary tied into defensemen before the last off-season. Bob Murray has financially lifted the club's salary and now the organization has the flexibility this summer to considerably improve the team.

No, it's actually Murray who has no will to fire Randy Carlyle. Murray was in contact with Carlyle during Burke's management. Everything would go through Murray and be delivered to Burke. Both men have stated that they work well together. When it comes to winning, ownership doesn't have favorites; they just want their club to win.

Like I said, Murray has been general manager of the team for about a year and his regime has not warranted any extreme criticism so far. However, this off-season is when we'll see whether Murray is right for the organization or not.

One frustrating part about these boards especially with this sub-forum in particular, is nobody tries to analyze both sides. I am no pro-Murray or anti-Burke, but I do try to be as unbiased as possible about the club.

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03-08-2010, 02:33 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jax00 View Post
It's not necassarily that he's a bad coach. It's just obvious the players don't listen to him anymore.
Boicot?. I think the same.

Maybe it would be good to sell one of our untouchable seen their performance.

They are already too many games that I am disappointed by the attitude of some players.

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