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Old
03-07-2010, 12:45 AM
  #1
usahockey22flyers
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Jonathan Matsumoto

Ive been following Matsumoto for awhile now, he gotten 50+ points in his last 2 years.. whats your thoughts on him? will he ever be in a flyers jersey?

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03-07-2010, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Ive been following Matsumoto for awhile now, he gotten 50+ points in his last 2 years.. whats your thoughts on him? will he ever be in a flyers jersey?

In my opinion, hes in the same class as an alexandre giroux, P.A. Parenteau, Corey Locke, etc.) players who always put up 80+ points in the ahl. They have definite skill, but it never translates to the nhl level. So my opinion, as a ranger fan, after seeing how they handled parenteau, is that they may call him up for a few games, but he seems like he is destined to be a career AHLer

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03-07-2010, 12:50 AM
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I really wish he was to be honest, but there isn't any room. Leino right now has Powe's spot while he is out. With Carcillo, Asham, Powe and Pyorala out of a contract after this year (UFA or RFA), he might be able to be something.

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03-07-2010, 12:51 AM
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usahockey22flyers
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yea for sure, he looks solid.. maybe the flyers will give him the call up.. i liked jared ross in the flyers playoff run last year

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03-07-2010, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
yea for sure, he looks solid.. maybe the flyers will give him the call up.. i liked jared ross in the flyers playoff run last year
The only reason he'd have a slight chance to get a call is if two or more forwards get injured (cross your fingers that they don't). They already have their 13 set, and I'd probably even say that Pyorala, Ross, and Kalinski are ahead of him as for call ups. He basically has no chance this year and he'll have to really impress in camp next year.

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03-07-2010, 07:35 AM
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When Pronger retires in two years and the Flyers have to carry his $5mm cap hit, Matsumoto will be a cheap third line center, who can replace Giroux when he signs an offer sheet with Toronto.

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03-07-2010, 08:19 AM
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Pyorala and Kalinski are definitely ahead of him on the call up list.

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03-07-2010, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
When Pronger retires in two years and the Flyers have to carry his $5mm cap hit, Matsumoto will be a cheap third line center, who can replace Giroux when he signs an offer sheet with Toronto.
How do you figure that both of those things are going to happen?

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03-07-2010, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
When Pronger retires in two years and the Flyers have to carry his $5mm cap hit, Matsumoto will be a cheap third line center, who can replace Giroux when he signs an offer sheet with Toronto.
Does the cap hit carry when a guy retires? I don't think it does in the NFL.

Matsumoto won't play for the Flyers unless a bunch of injuries happen or he changes to wing. The Flyers are too deep at center.

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03-07-2010, 09:46 AM
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Matsumoto=Jon Sim

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03-07-2010, 09:59 AM
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Matsumoto has a number of things working for him.

1) He's not skilled enough to be a 1st or 2nd line center. Basically he's a pretty good passer and an alright shooter. He's certainly not good enough to beat out Carter, Richards, and Giroux.

2) He's not a fast skater or a particularly gritty forechecker or even a two-way powerhouse at the AHL level. As I said before, he's pretty mediocre. That's why players like Kalinski, Nodl, and Laliberte keep jumping him. They all have some particular skill that makes them useful while Matsumoto does not necessarily. Even if we ran a traditional third line, Matsumoto would not be the guy.

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03-07-2010, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Does the cap hit carry when a guy retires? I don't think it does in the NFL.
Yes, unless it's because of injuries. Which at that point he gets Rathje'd

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03-07-2010, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Yes, unless it's because of injuries. Which at that point he gets Rathje'd
and we signed Pronger for how many years?

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03-07-2010, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSaq View Post
When Pronger retires in two years and the Flyers have to carry his $5mm cap hit, Matsumoto will be a cheap third line center, who can replace Giroux when he signs an offer sheet with Toronto.
Haha, I actually wouldn't mind Toronto signing Giroux as an RFA. Those picks would be fantastic

As for Matsumoto, he's going to be a career AHL callup. He might be able to find a role as a bottom-6 grinder for us, but I don't see him beating out Powe/Asham/Leino/etc.

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03-07-2010, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDu View Post
Matsumoto=Jon Sim
So he will be a star player in the NHL?

What happened to that Jon Sim website about how great he is?

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03-07-2010, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Yes, unless it's because of injuries. Which at that point he gets Rathje'd
Pronger was 35+ when he signed his deal, we carry his caphit if he retires.

In fact, the best thing for the Flyers would be if he was LTIR'd in 2-3 years.

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03-07-2010, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Pronger was 35+ when he signed his deal, we carry his caphit if he retires.

In fact, the best thing for the Flyers would be if he was LTIR'd in 2-3 years.
or he keeps playing a great level? His hit is only 4.92 after this year, less than a lot of horrible defensmen

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03-07-2010, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Pronger was 35+ when he signed his deal, we carry his caphit if he retires.

In fact, the best thing for the Flyers would be if he was LTIR'd in 2-3 years.
2-3 years, that ridiculous. The guy will play out his contract, he only has a 5million$ caphit... Best you can "Hope" for is he retires(LTIR) at 40/41, I highly doubt it. I dont think hes gonna want to go out as the guy who signed that bogus contract.

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03-07-2010, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
2-3 years, that ridiculous. The guy will play out his contract, he only has a 5million$ caphit... Best you can "Hope" for is he retires(LTIR) at 40/41, I highly doubt it. I dont think hes gonna want to go out as the guy who signed that bogus contract.
The real question is, is he even able to play at a decent pace at 40/41? As much as I like Pronger, I wont be happy paying a 40 yr old 3rd pairing guy 4 mil +


EDIT: My spelling sucks lol


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03-07-2010, 04:11 PM
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Th real question is, is he even able to play at a decent pass at 40/41? As much as I like Pronger, I wont be happy paying a 40 yr old 3rd pairing guy 4 mil +
If that's the case, he can always be sent down to the AHL. I know we'd still be paying him, but it wouldn't hurt the cap. And by the time he is 40 if he is needed to be sent down, though his cap hit will be $5 mil, his salary will only be $525k, if my understanding of his contract/the salary cap is correct. I may be wrong about that, but his salary now I think is a little over $7 mil but his cap hit is like $6 mil or something? If I am wrong can someone please explain this to me? I am getting my info from an old ESPN article:

Quote:
[T]he Pronger deal that has him making $7.6, $7.6, $7.2 and $7 million in the first four years, $4 million in the fifth year and then $525,000 in each of the last two years. That makes the cap hit manageable at a shade under $5 million annually.
If that's the case sending him to the minors in the last few years wouldn't be a big deal. Again I'm not entirely sure of how the cap works so that may be wrong, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Plus Pronger seems like the type of player who will play forever and at a fairly high level. He may not be a top flight guy a few years from now, but I can't ever see him turning into a liability.

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03-07-2010, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If that's the case, he can always be sent down to the AHL. I know we'd still be paying him, but it wouldn't hurt the cap. And by the time he is 40 if he is needed to be sent down, though his cap hit will be $5 mil, his salary will only be $525k, if my understanding of his contract/the salary cap is correct. I may be wrong about that, but his salary now I think is a little over $7 mil but his cap hit is like $6 mil or something? If I am wrong can someone please explain this to me? I am getting my info from an old ESPN article:



If that's the case sending him to the minors in the last few years wouldn't be a big deal. Again I'm not entirely sure of how the cap works so that may be wrong, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Plus Pronger seems like the type of player who will play forever and at a fairly high level. He may not be a top flight guy a few years from now, but I can't ever see him turning into a liability.
we keep the cap hit even if he is in the AHL. Only way that helps us is if he refuses to report and we can suspend him.

Pronger said he wants to play out all 7 years of the deal, and the only way he won't is if he is hurt or has lingering injury like Rathje and Hatcher. Then we can LTIR him.

The dude is on pace for 58 freaking points, and is a top 5 candidate for the Norris. He is very durable aswell, and will be making less money than:

Redden
Rozival
Hamrlik
Jovonoski
McCabe
Campbell
Visnovsky
Souray

In the same money area as Komisarek, Hainsy, Hannan, Brewer.

I would take a 40 year old Pronger over most of those people, and he will be cheaper

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03-07-2010, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
we keep the cap hit even if he is in the AHL. Only way that helps us is if he refuses to report and we can suspend him.

Pronger said he wants to play out all 7 years of the deal, and the only way he won't is if he is hurt or has lingering injury like Rathje and Hatcher. Then we can LTIR him.

The dude is on pace for 58 freaking points, and is a top 5 candidate for the Norris. He is very durable aswell, and will be making less money than:

Redden
Rozival
Hamrlik
Jovonoski
McCabe
Campbell
Visnovsky
Souray

In the same money area as Komisarek, Hainsy, Hannan, Brewer.

I would take a 40 year old Pronger over most of those people, and he will be cheaper
Absolutely. I am not saying we should try and shed his salary, I am just saying that I thought if he became a liability sending him down would get rid of his contract (though I suppose I was wrong about that). Like I said before, he may not be a 1/2 guy three or four years from now, but I can never see him becoming a liability. At worst he ends his career as a pretty solid second pairing type guy.

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03-07-2010, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Absolutely. I am not saying we should try and shed his salary, I am just saying that I thought if he became a liability sending him down would get rid of his contract (though I suppose I was wrong about that). Like I said before, he may not be a 1/2 guy three or four years from now, but I can never see him becoming a liability. At worst he ends his career as a pretty solid second pairing type guy.
I wasnt directing my whole rant at you sorry, was just letting you know the AHL rules

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03-07-2010, 06:49 PM
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Even if he did "retrie" I am sure teh Flyers could find the right doctor to LITR him. A guy of hsi size and age is sure to have some sort of knee problem we can exaggerate a bit

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03-08-2010, 05:26 AM
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I thought if he retired his cap hit doesn't carry, which is why the NHL wanted to investigate it. If it didn't then it wouldn't matter. The whole issue was that the NHL was worried that the Flyers extended the deal to lower the hit but discussed the possibility of him retiring before his contract was up, but had recieved much of the money of the contract.

edit: If one willfully retires I'm pretty sure that would end your contract and thus there shouldn't be any obligation to pay a person. I don't actually know this, but it just seems like this would make sense.

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