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Old
05-18-2010, 07:35 PM
  #151
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I would love to see the wings draft one of the following:

-skinner= most likely taken somewhere between 9-16 however his pure offensive abilities would make him detroits top ranked forward prospect in some time

-etem= most likely taken somewhere between 12-20 however would be another big time winger to add to the forward prospect pool

-merrill= most likely taken between 15-19 however is easily one of the top 4 or 5 dman in the draft with huge upside

-mcfarland= could go mid 1st rd or could slide but talent wise he is a top 10 pick, its his attitude scouts say that holds him back from the top half dozen

-toffoli= this kid scores at will and with detroits patient approach any short comings he has would be corrected

-tarasenko= even though the rangers will likely draft this kid at 10, if he is available at 21 you have to take him on pure talent alone and nevermind the russian factor.

-howden= big poward forward soemthing detroit desperately lacks

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05-18-2010, 07:42 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
There's a pretty massive population of repeat offenders in prison who kinda show that attitude can't be "fixed". People either grow and get a hold of themselves or they don't.

There's no promise someone will do that just because of being in a Wings locker room. People seem to forget that Sean Avery started out with the Wings in a room with many future HHOFers and he didn't change, they just shipped him out. Shipping out a 1st round pick because he's a ***** is not what the Wings can afford right now though. It's far too risky.
You people need to realize this god damn kid is only 17/18 years old. You mean to tell me you made stellar life choices at that age? Well, then props to you for being so mature at such a young age. If the Wings got their scouting done and they know who they want at what rounds, needless to say they might not get them, they could very well take the risk at this point. You also need to realize that if the Wings made that pick (drafting him) they obviously went through hardcore interviews, scouting reports, ect.. on him to fully understand his character issues and what not. Detroit is always known for doing their research and if they drafted him they obviously got my trust that they know wtf they are doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaRules View Post
Moncton is in the Memorial Cup right now without Kabanov because no one on the team could stand him. That says alot about his character, or lack thereof.
Go read the article about him ADMITTING he made a mistake. Take it for what it is, truth or a grain of salt, sometimes people do make mistakes, admit to them and mean it.

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05-18-2010, 07:49 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harfo1 View Post
I would love to see the wings draft one of the following:

-skinner= most likely taken somewhere between 9-16 however his pure offensive abilities would make him detroits top ranked forward prospect in some time

-etem= most likely taken somewhere between 12-20 however would be another big time winger to add to the forward prospect pool

-merrill= most likely taken between 15-19 however is easily one of the top 4 or 5 dman in the draft with huge upside

-mcfarland= could go mid 1st rd or could slide but talent wise he is a top 10 pick, its his attitude scouts say that holds him back from the top half dozen

-toffoli= this kid scores at will and with detroits patient approach any short comings he has would be corrected

-tarasenko= even though the rangers will likely draft this kid at 10, if he is available at 21 you have to take him on pure talent alone and nevermind the russian factor.

-howden= big poward forward soemthing detroit desperately lacks
McFarland's problem is that he's missed alot of hockey this year. A year ago people thought he was going to be the best Canadian in the 2010 draft.

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05-18-2010, 07:52 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by harfo1 View Post
Go read the article about him ADMITTING he made a mistake. Take it for what it is, truth or a grain of salt, sometimes people do make mistakes, admit to them and mean it.
So Kabanov watches his draft stock has dropped a ton and suddenly he 'realizes he made a mistake'. FWIW, that article is the only article I've ever seen on Kabanov that sounded like that. To me, it appears the kid is just trying to resurrect his draft status before it's too late and hits the bottom.

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05-18-2010, 08:45 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaRules View Post
So Kabanov watches his draft stock has dropped a ton and suddenly he 'realizes he made a mistake'. FWIW, that article is the only article I've ever seen on Kabanov that sounded like that. To me, it appears the kid is just trying to resurrect his draft status before it's too late and hits the bottom.
Someone get CanadaRules a gold star. Kabanov's team is playing for the Memorial Cup WITHOUT a top 5 draft talent who has seen his stock plummet. So what does he do right before the NHL draft? Oh dontchya know he says "oh I made some poor decisions but trust me - if you draft me in the top 10 you can be sure I've learned my lesson real good!!!"

Why on earth would he say that right now? Is there a good explanation? Could it be because he has a chance to cash in this summer? [cough New York Rangers cough] Hopefully he plummets in the NHL draft and packs it in and heads off to the KHL alongside Alexi Yashin.

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05-18-2010, 10:27 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
No, in a word; Heck No in two. I don't know what draft list you have been looking at, but there are plenty of tall defensemen in later rounds in the draft. You want one? Draft Austin Levi, a six-foot-four defenseman for the Plymouth Whalers. You do not waste a good first round pick on a defenseman when the offensive talent in the first round is prodigious.
Not any that can play the Wings puck possession style. In later rounds you can either get big less skilled D or small skilled D, you can't get the right combo of size and skill outside of the first 2 rounds.

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Old
05-19-2010, 02:27 AM
  #157
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Wow, and here I was thinking that 6'4 Austin Levi is an example of a skilled and massive defenseman. Or perhaps he's a highly skilled 6'4 strand of spaghetti?

So, do you mean to tell me that you have considerable knowledge of all of the defensive prospects down to the last man of the seventh round? I certainly can't say that I have absolute knowledge of the candidates, but I can tell you that there exist highly skilled and tall/big defensemen outside of the first round. Keep in mind where the Red Wings have drafted some of their most outstanding players, and while we have two outstanding defensive prospects somewhere down the line in Brendan Smith and the swedish draftpick of last year, we don't have much in the way of standout offensive talent in the pipeline except for Tatar, Nyquist and perhaps Ferraro. I would much rather use a good first round berth on an area that we need reinforced or improved.


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Old
05-19-2010, 05:55 AM
  #158
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Oh come on now your just being difficult. Just look at the Wings draft history. How many Big Puck Possesion D have we found in past years. Fischer - first round. Kindl - first round. Smith - first round. The only exception is Ericsson and maybe Meech but he really isn't that strong despite his height. The Wings have terrible draft history with D that aren't the small puck possession D everyone around here complains about. Forwards on the other hand are a different. Datsyuk - 6th round, Zetterberg - 7th, Franzen - 3rd, Holmstrom - 10th, Filppula - 3rd, Mursak - 6th, Nyquist - 4th, etc... The Wings have no problem finding highly skilled forwards with 1st line potential in later round. We almost even had Kruger last year, had he not gotten stolen from us.

The Wings need an elite, big puck moving D. The Wings do not need an elite forward, we have plenty forwards with potential, and we are going to have D Z and F for a long time. Who is going to replace Lidstrom? Rafalski?

And what are you talking about our Forward prospect pool is much better than our D. It really isn't even close.

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05-19-2010, 04:41 PM
  #159
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Kitsyn and Galiev are starting to look like possible good pics for our 1st. Here's some info on them both(+Kuznetsov). Galiev doesn't have the "russian factor", he's said that he's staying in NA. In the "interesting facts" section of Kitsyn's part it says: "Red Wings scout came to a KHL game to see him." I don't know how many other teams had a scout there, probably many, but it shows the Wings have some interest in him.

Galiev looks like a very down to earth kid and would fit just fine with Datsyuk

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05-19-2010, 05:53 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
Galiev doesn't have the "russian factor", he's said that he's staying in NA.
just like filatov?

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05-19-2010, 06:37 PM
  #161
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and Radulov?

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Old
05-19-2010, 09:18 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
And Chad I know the Wings prospect pool like the back of my hand, I know we have size on the D.
Guys we drafted.....

Jonathan Ericsson (9/291 2002)
Kyle Quincey (4/132 2003)

Guys drafted by other teams.....

Kurtis Foster (2/40 2000)
Fedor Tyutin (2/40 2001)
Matt Carle (2/47 2003)
Shea Weber (2/49 2003)
Duncan Keith (2/54 2002)
Paul Martin (2/62 2000)
Jamie McBain (2/63 2006)
Kristopher Letang (3/62 2005)
Cody Franson (3/79 2005)
Alexander Edler (3/91 2004)
Keith Yandle (4/105 2005)
Christian Ehrhoff (4/106 2001)
Tom Gilbert (4/129 2002)
Kevin Bieksa (5/151 2001)
Dennis Seidenburg (6/172 2001)
Paul Ranger (6/183 2002)
Anton Stralman (7/216 2005)
Dennis Wideman (8/241 2002)
Mark Streit (9/262 2004)

Keep in mind this is a fairly conservative list using only height and points so there are undoubtedly several more that can be included.

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05-19-2010, 10:06 PM
  #163
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Well of course it is possible to get a few in later rounds, but the Wings need a big puck moving defensemen and they have a terribly history finding some in the past after the 1st and 2nd rounds. I mean if all we have are Big E and Q, which both have margainal puck-possession skills in the first place, we really shouldn't be relying on the later rounds to pick up those guys. Also most of those guys are 2nd rounders you have listed. Those are still pretty high picks. On the other hand skilled forwards have been much easier for the Wings to find in later rounds. I mean pretty much our whole roster is made up of them. This is about what the Wings scouting staff is capable of producing, not what all the scouts in the rest of the league can do. The Wings know how to draft small highly skilled forwards and small puck possession D in later rounds while they have trouble finding big puck possession D, power forwards, and goalies. So the Wings draft their weaknesses early because you don't need the best scouts to draft players early on, while they draft the skilled forwards and small D later on because that is what they are good at. Maximize all your picks.

I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand? Noone seems to understand it haha, is it the way I am explaining it? probably.

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Old
05-20-2010, 12:45 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
just like filatov?
Fat ass Hitchcock is the reason Filatov bolted to Russia. He's going to be back in the NHL next season.

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05-20-2010, 12:55 AM
  #165
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As for those suggesting drafting Mcfarland smarten up and do some research. The guy has bust and Angelo Esposito written all over him. He always always always leaves you with wanting more when you watch him play. There is no way in hell Detroit should draft this guy.

As for guys Detroit should consider drafting Dylan McIlrath comes to mind a big mean and nasty physical defencemen who plays in the WHL. He's as tough as nails and is a very good fighter. Since they're not going to get Niederreiter they better make sure they get this guy.

Detroit should also consider Kabanov he's going to fall in the draft and Detroit might be able to get him in the 3rd round or lower depending on what some of the other teams do.

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05-20-2010, 01:45 AM
  #166
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Kuznetsov signed a 2-year contract with his KHL, so he might slide in the draft now. He should be there when we pick at 21 I think, and maybe even in the 2nd round.

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05-20-2010, 06:16 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
just like filatov?
Hmm.. No? Galiev is in his 2nd season playing in North America so that's the difference between him and Filatov "I don’t want to come back to Russia, everything suits me in America." is a lot said though it could just be total BS. But, when compared to Radulov who had also played in NA before being drafted, Galiev isn't that kind of egoistic ******* and prima donna as Radulov... Just looking at them tells you that

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05-20-2010, 07:24 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Go Wings View Post
Fat ass Hitchcock is the reason Filatov bolted to Russia. He's going to be back in the NHL next season.
ever seen an interview with filatov? he will run away again, i'm pretty sure about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
Hmm.. No? Galiev is in his 2nd season playing in North America so that's the difference between him and Filatov "I don’t want to come back to Russia, everything suits me in America." is a lot said though it could just be total BS. But, when compared to Radulov who had also played in NA before being drafted, Galiev isn't that kind of egoistic ******* and prima donna as Radulov... Just looking at them tells you that
i read that "i want to play in the NHL" stuff way too often. things change. and for most guys it's about money, so the KHL is always an option for any russian. and i can't complain about it, they do the right thing.
i'm not saying teams should stay away from russians, i want the wings to pick kuznetsov, but i wouldn't give a damn about those "i want to stay in NA" comments. they are worthless.

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05-20-2010, 10:40 AM
  #169
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@ Robert8841:

The Griffins, as well as the Detroit Red Wings, could use 1st round offensive talent much more than first round defensive talent. Tatar is not sufficient, Ferraro hasn't proven anything. We need more offensive standout prospects, and the first round is just loaded; the fact is, I'm willing to settle on any of the forwards in the first round. My guess is that you have a bias in that you have a single defensive player in mind or defensive trait that you want the Wings to possess (i.e. "Wings need a Chara-esque player" or some such.) While I, too, am maddened with this organization's loyalty to a 6 million dollar puck moving defensemen that can't play defense, and upset that aside from Stuart and Kronwall we don't have any remotely physical defensemen, you don't draft physicality in the first round. That is about as nonsensical as the argument of the need to draft an enforcer/agitator in the first round.

Hearing about Red Wings Scouts observing Kitsyn gives me hope; just a beastly forward with monstrous size to back talent.

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05-20-2010, 10:59 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
@ Robert8841:

The Griffins, as well as the Detroit Red Wings, could use 1st round offensive talent much more than first round defensive talent. Tatar is not sufficient, Ferraro hasn't proven anything. We need more offensive standout prospects, and the first round is just loaded; the fact is, I'm willing to settle on any of the forwards in the first round. My guess is that you have a bias in that you have a single defensive player in mind or defensive trait that you want the Wings to possess (i.e. "Wings need a Chara-esque player" or some such.) While I, too, am maddened with this organization's loyalty to a 6 million dollar puck moving defensemen that can't play defense, and upset that aside from Stuart and Kronwall we don't have any remotely physical defensemen, you don't draft physicality in the first round. That is about as nonsensical as the argument of the need to draft an enforcer/agitator in the first round.

Hearing about Red Wings Scouts observing Kitsyn gives me hope; just a beastly forward with monstrous size to back talent.
Your argument makes no sense at all. You say that the Wings have no forward prospects besides Tatar, and Ferraro .... which is not true by the way. On the other hand, the only defenseman prospects that we have right now are Kindl : and Smith. Looks to me like we have more forwards with potential in the system

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05-20-2010, 11:01 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Well of course it is possible to get a few in later rounds, but the Wings need a big puck moving defensemen and they have a terribly history finding some in the past after the 1st and 2nd rounds.
I will say this is a GREAT draft for bigger, mobile D. Lots of solid projects, some that are further along than others and some with a lot of tools but not toolkits as of yet.

Off the top of my head:

Julian Melchiori

Bobby Mac has mentioned him as a possible surprise 1st rounder- sort of like Dylan Olsen last year- but I'm not sure I'd use such a high pick on him. Above-average in every category which is nice and he'll be heading to UMass-Lowell where he'll be on the top pairing right away, but I don't see anything that makes him substantially better than the other kids on this list.

Isaac MacLeod

-BC recruit, which means he's passed that crucial first scouting litmus test. Will get a ton of minutes if he's up to the task, as BC is losing Carl Sneep to graduation- a, you guessed it, 6'4, 205 lbs defender who runs both the PP and PK.

Peter Stoykewych

-Most notable MJHL player in some time. Stand-out performance at the CJHL ASG and World Junior A Championships. Has a good pedigree on top of that- best defenceman at a major Bantam tournament in '07. Would have been a first round pick in the WHL Draft but has a college commitment (Colorado College).

Joey Leach

Ridiculously good back-skater for a man his size. 15th in the WHL in plus/minus despite Kootenay not having a great or even good goaltender. Doesn't have teammate Brayden McNabb's tenacity or offensive quite yet, but defensively he's miles ahead of anyone on that blueline and you hope you can teach him the rest.

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05-20-2010, 01:36 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaRules View Post
Your argument makes no sense at all. You say that the Wings have no forward prospects besides Tatar, and Ferraro .... which is not true by the way. On the other hand, the only defenseman prospects that we have right now are Kindl : and Smith. Looks to me like we have more forwards with potential in the system
Of course my argument doesn't make sense to you, you are more preoccupied with firing back at my post than reading it and doing some research on who we have.

I never said we don't have any forward prospects, I simply said that only two or three of them have real promise. I mean, really, compare the list of significant forward prospects (Ferraro, Tatar, Nyquist, Coatzee, MAYBE Mursak and MAYBE Nestrasil) with our list of defensive prospects; Smith, Kindl, Almqvist, Kolosov, Fournier, Nicastro, Jensen, Pyett, Lashoff? I think we're good for now with defensemen. All of those defensive prospects have a great deal of promise, by the way (except, perhaps, for Kindl, who more closely resembles a pylon than a defenseman; maybe we could pair him with Rafalski so that he could learn how to be a more effective, 6 million dollar pylon) , and we shouldn't have immediate need for them. On the other hand, you can't tell me that our team has no need of scorers, or more scoring talent. Besides, it seems easier to acquire good defensive talent through trades or free agency than it does to acquire good offensive talent.


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Old
05-20-2010, 06:08 PM
  #173
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Their is no point in argueing with someone who can't assess our prospects talent. You think Almqvist, Kolosov, Fournier, Nicastro, Jensen, Pyett, and Lashoff show more promise than Jakub Kindl. Are you ****en serious? Yet you go on to say our defense is fine?! How does that even make sense?!

You also say Mursak is a maybe, while Ferraro, Tatar, Nyquist, and Coeztee are our only significant forward prospects. Wow. Mursak is the closest thing we have to a NHL stud at the moment. I mean did you just hop onto RWC and just read all the players profiles for the first time for this arguement?

And LOL at Rafalski as a 6 million dollar pylon. He may be slightly over paid but he is an integral part of this team. He is so underrated. He was team USA's top defender, above Ryan Suter, JJ, EJ, and a few other lesser Dmen. He is the only right handed shot we have on D that can run the point on the PP. He is getting paid 6 million because players like him are so hard to find but they are so important.


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05-20-2010, 06:15 PM
  #174
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And ty Mr. Bugg for that list, good read.

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05-20-2010, 06:51 PM
  #175
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And ty Mr. Bugg for that list, good read.
No problem! I'm of course co-authoring the DobberHockey Prospect Report again this year, and it'll have a more in-depth look at each of them if anyone wants to learn more.

But if there were defenders I'd put money on the Wings drafting, I'd say one would be Joey Laleggia and the other would be Jesper Hoffman.

-Laleggia is the North American version of Almqvist. It's really incredible how alike they are. The 5'9 offensive defenseman plays for the Penticton Vees of the BCHL. Interesting fact: he's one of only two players this decade to lead all defensemen in scoring during their draft year. The other? Duncan Keith.

-Hoffman is his absolute opposite. At 6'7, 216 lbs, he's a- excuse the pun- massive project. Hoffman made the wide decision to jump to the Södertälje organization this year after getting little ice-time with his home club. It's a proven career path for big men- your own Jonathan Ericsson did it and the organization's approach to player development is a big reason why he's an NHLer today. Södertälje alum frequently help out at summer training sessions- Nik Bergfors and Mikael Samuelsson were there last summer, for example- and they're very serious about player nutrition.

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