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Old
05-20-2010, 06:54 PM
  #176
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I'm not all that hopeful for Ferraro anymore after this year.

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05-20-2010, 07:27 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
I'm not all that hopeful for Ferraro anymore after this year.
RWC and Matt Wuest did a good job of covering what ailed him- the October knee injury. The WHL is my home base and it was obvious it was having a huge impact on his play- he really should not have played much before February, let alone right away after the injury. Ferraro's game is built on speed and he couldn't generate any kind of power. The result was that he ended up having to play a stationary game- screening the net, manning the point, staying along the half-wall- because that was all he could do.

However, I personally think the injury had its silver lining; he learned how to become a playmaker. His 30 assists this past year were more than his previous two seasons combined.

Point split:

Sep/Oct- 7 GP, 1-2-3
Nov/Dec- 12 GP, 5-7-12
Jan/Feb- 27 GP, 9-18-27
Mar (inc. playoffs)- 10 GP, 1-3-4

If he would have played at his Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb level all year, that's a 26-46-72 season.

He of course ended up being a HS in the playoffs, but I'd tempted to side more with Ferraro and fellow scratch Andrej Kudrna; the Rebels haven't had a system during head coach Jesse Wallin's entire tenure with the organization. I question whether he has the chops to coach at even the major junior level and I don't think he'd have a job if he wasn't a Rebels alum.

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05-20-2010, 08:19 PM
  #178
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Why are the Red Deer Rebels shopping him so much?

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05-20-2010, 08:24 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
Why are the Red Deer Rebels shopping him so much?
In fairness, I think Landon's a little too cocky for his own good at times- he's like his dad that way, who eventually mellowed with age. But all we have is the one report of him being offered around and- this is telling- he wasn't actually ever traded. Both sides are looking to a fresh start next year and with the summer to recuperate, Ferraro should be his 2008-09 self.

Even if does end up being traded some time between now and the fall, it wouldn't be a deal-breaker. Lots of kids change programs in junior because of some kind of squabble and turn out fine- they're kids, remember. So long as it doesn't become a pattern and I must stress that it hasn't been, it's nothing to worry about.

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05-20-2010, 10:13 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Their is no point in argueing with someone who can't assess our prospects talent. You think Almqvist, Kolosov, Fournier, Nicastro, Jensen, Pyett, and Lashoff show more promise than Jakub Kindl. Are you ****en serious? Yet you go on to say our defense is fine?! How does that even make sense?!

You also say Mursak is a maybe, while Ferraro, Tatar, Nyquist, and Coeztee are our only significant forward prospects. Wow. Mursak is the closest thing we have to a NHL stud at the moment. I mean did you just hop onto RWC and just read all the players profiles for the first time for this arguement?

And LOL at Rafalski as a 6 million dollar pylon. He may be slightly over paid but he is an integral part of this team. He is so underrated. He was team USA's top defender, above Ryan Suter, JJ, EJ, and a few other lesser Dmen. He is the only right handed shot we have on D that can run the point on the PP. He is getting paid 6 million because players like him are so hard to find but they are so important.
Kindl is a bum he has bust written all over him. Pyett completely outplayed him this year in GR and when they were paired together made Kindl's skating look like he was Hal Gil. Lashoff looks alot better then Kindl as well in a very short debut in the AHL after his last 2 season ended in the OHL. Almqvist hockey sense is off the charts once he gains weight he'll hopefully become a good defencemen. So saying some of those guys are better then Kindl isnt a stretch at all. I've seen Kindl play and he's worse then Lebda, Meech and Ericsson were this season.

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05-20-2010, 10:19 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
Of course my argument doesn't make sense to you, you are more preoccupied with firing back at my post than reading it and doing some research on who we have.

I never said we don't have any forward prospects, I simply said that only two or three of them have real promise. I mean, really, compare the list of significant forward prospects (Ferraro, Tatar, Nyquist, Coatzee, MAYBE Mursak and MAYBE Nestrasil) with our list of defensive prospects; Smith, Kindl, Almqvist, Kolosov, Fournier, Nicastro, Jensen, Pyett, Lashoff? I think we're good for now with defensemen. All of those defensive prospects have a great deal of promise, by the way (except, perhaps, for Kindl, who more closely resembles a pylon than a defenseman; maybe we could pair him with Rafalski so that he could learn how to be a more effective, 6 million dollar pylon) , and we shouldn't have immediate need for them. On the other hand, you can't tell me that our team has no need of scorers, or more scoring talent. Besides, it seems easier to acquire good defensive talent through trades or free agency than it does to acquire good offensive talent.
If any of these players besides Smith and Kindl ever see significant time with the Red Wings I'll be shocked,, barring massive injuries of course. At this point Kindl may only become a 5th Dman on an NHL roster, and who knows what Smith will do in the NHL. Sure Smith had a great year in college but that's a whole different animal.

Ferraro, Tatar and Nyquist are all solid prospects that any NHL team would LOVE to have in their system.

Tatar = STUD
Nyquist = STUD
Ferraro = stud... I'm thinking of a comparison, maybe Draper with more skill??


With Lidstrom retiring this year or next imo and Rafalski getting older by the day I think it would be a great time to take a big, strong defensemen who we should be able to rely upon for years into the future... unless McFarland is available at 21, you have to take him.

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05-20-2010, 10:34 PM
  #182
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Ferraro = stud... I'm thinking of a comparison, maybe Draper with more skill??
I'd say Patrick Sharp moreso than a Draper. Great speed that's useful both at ES and special teams, loves to shoot but is an underrated playmaker, and plays with a surprising amount of grit and strength.

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05-20-2010, 11:28 PM
  #183
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I'd say Patrick Sharp moreso than a Draper. Great speed that's useful both at ES and special teams, loves to shoot but is an underrated playmaker, and plays with a surprising amount of grit and strength.
Does Landon play with any kind of a meanstreak at all?

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05-21-2010, 12:07 AM
  #184
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Kabanov is unique case for sure. He can say he made a mistake. Passing up the chance to play in the Memorial Cup is a mistake that few kids serious about playing higher level hockey do not make.
If it is a mistake then it is a huge one. Hard to impress an army of scouts by living with an agent in Calgary.

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05-21-2010, 12:20 AM
  #185
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Canada Rules, the answer would be no to Ferraro having a mean streak.
If the Red Wings want good players with mean streaks they can find some this week at the Memorial Cup. Calgary Hitmen have a quite a few physical players.

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05-21-2010, 12:48 AM
  #186
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Kindl has never really had a solid professional season, yet, but the suggestions here about being a "bust" are premature, at best.

He has a lot of untapped potential. Since he'll probably on the team next season, we'll see what he can do.

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05-21-2010, 08:39 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by WheatiesHockey View Post
Canada Rules, the answer would be no to Ferraro having a mean streak.
If the Red Wings want good players with mean streaks they can find some this week at the Memorial Cup. Calgary Hitmen have a quite a few physical players.
I wouldn't say he has a mean streak, no, but he's competitive enough and players know he'll defend himself- he got into it with 6'4 Joey Leach, for example, after the big defender rag-dolled him into the boards.

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05-21-2010, 10:26 AM
  #188
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I'd like to see the Wings trade out of the first round and grab a couple seconds (and even an additional seventh for Hakan to work his magic with which is do-able since they would be giving up a mid-first rounder unlike years previous) and take three prospects like Stephen Silas (puck moving strong 2-way defender who lacks physicality), Jared Knight (gritty goal scorer who lacks size) and Temuu Pulkkinen (high end goal scorer with some intensity/attitude issues) in the second round.

The hope being that one or two would round into high end NHLers.

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Old
05-21-2010, 10:58 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Their is no point in argueing with someone who can't assess our prospects talent. You think Almqvist, Kolosov, Fournier, Nicastro, Jensen, Pyett, and Lashoff show more promise than Jakub Kindl. Are you ****en serious? Yet you go on to say our defense is fine?! How does that even make sense?!

You also say Mursak is a maybe, while Ferraro, Tatar, Nyquist, and Coeztee are our only significant forward prospects. Wow. Mursak is the closest thing we have to a NHL stud at the moment. I mean did you just hop onto RWC and just read all the players profiles for the first time for this arguement?

And LOL at Rafalski as a 6 million dollar pylon. He may be slightly over paid but he is an integral part of this team. He is so underrated. He was team USA's top defender, above Ryan Suter, JJ, EJ, and a few other lesser Dmen. He is the only right handed shot we have on D that can run the point on the PP. He is getting paid 6 million because players like him are so hard to find but they are so important.

You think Almqvist, Kolosov, Fournier, Nicastro, Jensen, Pyett, and Lashoff show more promise than Jakub Kindl. Are you ****en serious?

I know, right? He's just been the most amazing player every chance he has had in stepping up when the Wings have called upon him to do so. Plus, you can see that his defensive game is sooooo much better than Jonathan Ericsson's who incidentally would be holding the same position at the head of the rankings if he was still in GR.

The others are better because they are higher end prospects who, for the most part, are far more consistent and will hopefully not stall out like Ericsson and Kindl do with such frequency. Consistency is very important for an NHL defender, it's a very big part of what makes Lidstrom great. I'll stop there, however; as you said, Their is no point in argueing with someone who can't assess our prospects talent.

Wow. Mursak is the closest thing we have to a NHL stud at the moment. I mean did you just hop onto RWC and just read all the players profiles for the first time for this arguement?

On again, off again player. He may pan out to be something amazing, then again he may not. Interesting, though, that you mention RWC; you do strike me as the character type that likes to post on that site.

And LOL at Rafalski as a 6 million dollar pylon.

You won't be LOL'ing at it when Lidstrom goes, trust me. Having a 6 mil defenseman who can't play defense is going to wear thin really quickly, and I'll make sure I keep good track of your posts to see when you decide to jump on that bandwagon like all of the other bandwagoners.

He may be slightly over paid but he is an integral part of this team

Understatement of the year award is yours. Congratulations.

He is the only right handed shot we have on D that can run the point on the PP.

You can have forwards at the point on a PP, too, and if you're point is that it is good to have a defenseman in you're PP lineup, you have made your own point moot, as Rafalski flubs a defensive play so often that he can hardly be considered a defenseman. Meech probably has better defensive skills than Rafalski, Raffi's only saving grace is his amazing offensive talent.

He is getting paid 6 million because players like him are so hard to find but they are so important.



I surrender, I can't defend against this kind of golden logic. Yup, you really do fit the mold of a RWC poster, probably Euroman or EvulMievl. It's like trying to argue morality with a fanatical suicide bomber; you may not have the brains but you certainly have the devotion.


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Old
05-21-2010, 11:10 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by CanadaRules View Post
If any of these players besides Smith and Kindl ever see significant time with the Red Wings I'll be shocked,, barring massive injuries of course. At this point Kindl may only become a 5th Dman on an NHL roster, and who knows what Smith will do in the NHL. Sure Smith had a great year in college but that's a whole different animal.

Ferraro, Tatar and Nyquist are all solid prospects that any NHL team would LOVE to have in their system.

Tatar = STUD
Nyquist = STUD
Ferraro = stud... I'm thinking of a comparison, maybe Draper with more skill??


With Lidstrom retiring this year or next imo and Rafalski getting older by the day I think it would be a great time to take a big, strong defensemen who we should be able to rely upon for years into the future... unless McFarland is available at 21, you have to take him.
If Smith and Kindl are the only defensive prospects out of those nine that can be developed into NHL players, that would not speak well of our development system.

Even by a numbers standpoint it seems silly to me; you have 9 talented defensive prospects with considerable promise to a handful of promising offensive talent, and if you take into cosideration that talented defensive players tend to be easier and cheaper to acquire than talented offensive players, it would make sense for the Red Wings to invest considerably in developing more standout offensive talent. This is the best draft berth that they have had in years with a very deep first round filled to the brim with the kind of offensive talent that you build teams around. Why not try to capitalize on it?


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05-21-2010, 12:31 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
If Smith and Kindl are the only defensive prospects out of those nine that can be developed into NHL players, that would not speak well of our development system.

Even by a numbers standpoint it seems silly to me; you have 9 talented defensive prospects with considerable promise to a handful of promising offensive talent, and if you take into cosideration that talented defensive players tend to be easier and cheaper to acquire than talented offensive players, it would make sense for the Red Wings to invest considerably in developing more standout offensive talent. This is the best draft berth that they have had in years with a very deep first round filled to the brim with the kind of offensive talent that you build teams around. Why not try to capitalize on it?
I don't know. I mean, with this draft being so deep, I think the best thing the Wings could do is do much like last season and trade down and acquire some more picks. There are clearly 2 players who are far and away the best, but afterward the players appear to be relatively comparable. Perhaps acquiring more players is better in this draft. Not sure....

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05-21-2010, 12:53 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
If Smith and Kindl are the only defensive prospects out of those nine that can be developed into NHL players, that would not speak well of our development system.

Even by a numbers standpoint it seems silly to me; you have 9 talented defensive prospects with considerable promise to a handful of promising offensive talent, and if you take into cosideration that talented defensive players tend to be easier and cheaper to acquire than talented offensive players, it would make sense for the Red Wings to invest considerably in developing more standout offensive talent. This is the best draft berth that they have had in years with a very deep first round filled to the brim with the kind of offensive talent that you build teams around. Why not try to capitalize on it?
Your just naming defensemen in the AHL for the sake of your argument. Half of those players won't ever see the NHL, the other half might get a callup due to injuries or a 6th/7th man role and Smith and Kindl have the potential to be special but that's it.

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05-21-2010, 06:56 PM
  #193
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Almqvist is gonna be the man! Fock the wurld!!! Go Double-A!

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05-21-2010, 07:11 PM
  #194
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how about admitting that your both right.

this draft, in particular the entire first round, is stacked with good to great forward prospects not seen in years, if ever even.

however detroits biggest weakness in terms of overall prospect depth, not necessarily top 5-10 prospects in the system, is on defence.

it might be a bad idea to pass up on a forward who is more likely to be a sure thing with that 21st overall pick and draft a dman who is less likely to be an impact NHL'er just so you can fill a void.

however passing up on a good dman, top 5 dman in the draft, should one fall to 21 may be a huge mistake given that liddy and rafalski are much closer to retirement that dats or zetts are, and that arguably detroits top 2 prospects kindl and smith are dmen and will soon be promoted and need to be replaced.

basically if at 21 one of the top 5 overall ranked dman in the entire draft is available then detroit SHOULD take him, however if thats not the case detroit SHOULD draft a forward and then pick dmen in rounds 2 and 3.

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05-22-2010, 06:09 AM
  #195
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Not any that can play the Wings puck possession style. In later rounds you can either get big less skilled D or small skilled D, you can't get the right combo of size and skill outside of the first 2 rounds.
Not sure I'm following you. So since the draft hasn't happened yet, are you saying that:

1. someone who's drafted in the 2nd round (even though you thought he should have gone in a later round) can't have combined size & skill? Or are you saying that
2. no one ranked beyond the 2nd round by NCS or any other mock list has exceptional size and skill (and won't develop it)? Or
3. by virtue of being picked in the 2nd round, a player must have the right combination (even if no one recognized it prior to the draft (for instance had him ranked low or not at all)?

Either way, I dont' agree. There are going to be one or two late round picks this year who will blow away guys currently projected to go in the first two rounds. Not the rule, but I'd bet there will be a couple of exceptions when we look back on it later.

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05-22-2010, 09:36 AM
  #196
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I don't know. I mean, with this draft being so deep, I think the best thing the Wings could do is do much like last season and trade down and acquire some more picks. There are clearly 2 players who are far and away the best, but afterward the players appear to be relatively comparable. Perhaps acquiring more players is better in this draft. Not sure....
Maybe. The question, in my mind, is "at what point do you trade up in the draft instead of trading down?" Also, why would we trade down? It could very well be a valid idea, I just want to know what our impetus is. Should we be doubling down on the first round's table scraps, or should we put our dollars on the first round? I'm fine with either choice in so long as the Wings make the decision based upon where they deem the desirable talent to be. If we were to trade down, for example, we should get a damned high second round draft pick, something in the top five, anything less would be pointless; If your goal is to snatch up what other teams missed, you have to make your move quickly.

21, if we truly possess the 21st draft berth, is not bad at all; in fact, it could possibly be a high enough draft berth where we could trade our 2nd and 3rd for a comparable 1st round draft pick, That way we could satisfy everyone here on the boards, including the people who believe that finding a large, powerful and skilled defenseman past the first round is right up there with finding that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exist.

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05-22-2010, 09:52 AM
  #197
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how about admitting that your both right.

this draft, in particular the entire first round, is stacked with good to great forward prospects not seen in years, if ever even.

however detroits biggest weakness in terms of overall prospect depth, not necessarily top 5-10 prospects in the system, is on defence.

it might be a bad idea to pass up on a forward who is more likely to be a sure thing with that 21st overall pick and draft a dman who is less likely to be an impact NHL'er just so you can fill a void.

however passing up on a good dman, top 5 dman in the draft, should one fall to 21 may be a huge mistake given that liddy and rafalski are much closer to retirement that dats or zetts are, and that arguably detroits top 2 prospects kindl and smith are dmen and will soon be promoted and need to be replaced.

basically if at 21 one of the top 5 overall ranked dman in the entire draft is available then detroit SHOULD take him, however if thats not the case detroit SHOULD draft a forward and then pick dmen in rounds 2 and 3.
I agree with this, for the most part; I'm not sure that our D is in such dire straits, but if there is a ready-to-play Zdeno Chara available when we draft, by all means, draft him. I would say base the drafting decision on what talent is available; though I am more inclined to draft a skilled offensive forward purely because of the price tag that is associated with many forwards from this draft range later on in their lives, I am just leery of the focus of drafting one thing or another.

All in all, it seems that the biggest names in offense are going for a much bigger dollar figure than the biggest names in defense; part of this is because offense tends to be flashier and more of a crowd pleaser. Although, if Lidstrom were in the open market with the cap system in place at the heyday of his career, would he be able to demand more than or equal to Ovechkin or Kovalchuk or their likes and still be signed in the NHL? Just saying, Ovy and Kovy have a high asking price, yet it seems that teams value offensive talent more.

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05-22-2010, 10:05 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
You think Almqvist, Kolosov, Fournier, Nicastro, Jensen, Pyett, and Lashoff show more promise than Jakub Kindl. Are you ****en serious?

I know, right? He's just been the most amazing player every chance he has had in stepping up when the Wings have called upon him to do so. Plus, you can see that his defensive game is sooooo much better than Jonathan Ericsson's who incidentally would be holding the same position at the head of the rankings if he was still in GR.

The others are better because they are higher end prospects who, for the most part, are far more consistent and will hopefully not stall out like Ericsson and Kindl do with such frequency. Consistency is very important for an NHL defender, it's a very big part of what makes Lidstrom great. I'll stop there, however; as you said, Their is no point in argueing with someone who can't assess our prospects talent.

Wow. Mursak is the closest thing we have to a NHL stud at the moment. I mean did you just hop onto RWC and just read all the players profiles for the first time for this arguement?

On again, off again player. He may pan out to be something amazing, then again he may not. Interesting, though, that you mention RWC; you do strike me as the character type that likes to post on that site.

And LOL at Rafalski as a 6 million dollar pylon.

You won't be LOL'ing at it when Lidstrom goes, trust me. Having a 6 mil defenseman who can't play defense is going to wear thin really quickly, and I'll make sure I keep good track of your posts to see when you decide to jump on that bandwagon like all of the other bandwagoners.

He may be slightly over paid but he is an integral part of this team

Understatement of the year award is yours. Congratulations.

He is the only right handed shot we have on D that can run the point on the PP.

You can have forwards at the point on a PP, too, and if you're point is that it is good to have a defenseman in you're PP lineup, you have made your own point moot, as Rafalski flubs a defensive play so often that he can hardly be considered a defenseman. Meech probably has better defensive skills than Rafalski, Raffi's only saving grace is his amazing offensive talent.

He is getting paid 6 million because players like him are so hard to find but they are so important.



I surrender, I can't defend against this kind of golden logic. Yup, you really do fit the mold of a RWC poster, probably Euroman or EvulMievl. It's like trying to argue morality with a fanatical suicide bomber; you may not have the brains but you certainly have the devotion.
I am done arguing with you, your clueless. Have you ever watched any of our prospects play?

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05-22-2010, 10:14 AM
  #199
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Almqvist is gonna be the man! Fock the wurld!!! Go Double-A!
It is rather impressive what Almqvist is capable of, considering his size and his youth. I won't jinx us here, but he does draw comparisons to a certain Nicky L. Capitano of the Detroit Red Wings.

If he developed into even 3/4's of the player he is pegged to become, that would be too sweet.

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05-22-2010, 10:52 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by TheFirebird View Post
I agree with this, for the most part; I'm not sure that our D is in such dire straits, but if there is a ready-to-play Zdeno Chara available when we draft, by all means, draft him. I would say base the drafting decision on what talent is available; though I am more inclined to draft a skilled offensive forward purely because of the price tag that is associated with many forwards from this draft range later on in their lives, I am just leery of the focus of drafting one thing or another.

All in all, it seems that the biggest names in offense are going for a much bigger dollar figure than the biggest names in defense; part of this is because offense tends to be flashier and more of a crowd pleaser. Although, if Lidstrom were in the open market with the cap system in place at the heyday of his career, would he be able to demand more than or equal to Ovechkin or Kovalchuk or their likes and still be signed in the NHL? Just saying, Ovy and Kovy have a high asking price, yet it seems that teams value offensive talent more.
And look where Washington got knocked out in these playoffs and how often Atlanta/Kovy even made them. I've watched people on the main boards gripe and moan about Montreal winning with defense but the smart teams know or figure out that's what it takes. Pittsburgh learned to play some D against us. Philly trades for Chris Pronger and becomes a contender (making Michael Leighton look like a capable starter in the process). If Lidstrom hit the open market, in his prime, his contract would have been huge because some team would have looked at him and realized: There is the key to a cup run.

I don't think our D prospects are that poor, either, though. People are just down because Ericsson had an off year and Kindl isn't a slam dunk. I think both will be fine in the long run. I think the best strategy is either best play available, or trading down for multiple picks if we have a cluster of guys are grouped together. Regardless of who we draft, they're not going to be in Detroit for a few years and will have time to mature.

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