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Old
03-12-2010, 02:14 PM
  #26
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Whats wrong with Mason?

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03-12-2010, 02:52 PM
  #27
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I really don't like Nabakov, he;s good in the regular season but when it comes to pressure games, he's pretty bad. He's part of the reason SJ chokes every playoffs and look at his game against Canada. He doesn't step up his game when he needs to. I remember one game, I think it was a game against Calgary in game 7 a few years ago he let in 2 goals on 9 shots. That's just unacceptable for a stanley cup contender in a game 7.
Agreed, I've always thought of Nabakov as the type of goalie that plays well throughout the season, but then falters in a big game.

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03-12-2010, 05:03 PM
  #28
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I was thinking, what about either keeping Mason for a couple more years or picking up an older goalie to get us through the next couple of years and draft Jack Campbell this draft? He looked really good in the WJ's and it looks like he has the potential to be an elite goalie, what do you guys think?

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03-12-2010, 05:08 PM
  #29
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I was thinking, what about either keeping Mason for a couple more years or picking up an older goalie to get us through the next couple of years and draft Jack Campbell this draft? He looked really good in the WJ's and it looks like he has the potential to be an elite goalie, what do you guys think?
I'd like to draft Campbell also. I'm guessing he'll go in the mid to late first round, or early second round. The Blues will likely have a mid first round pick, so I wonder if they'll be interested in him.

I think I'd rather trade for Schneider though, if we can get him without giving up too much. He looks to have the potential of an elite goalie as well and is further along in the development process, so he'd be ready sooner and less of a risk.

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03-12-2010, 06:42 PM
  #30
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I'd like to draft Campbell also. I'm guessing he'll go in the mid to late first round, or early second round. The Blues will likely have a mid first round pick, so I wonder if they'll be interested in him.

I think I'd rather trade for Schneider though, if we can get him without giving up too much. He looks to have the potential of an elite goalie as well and is further along in the development process, so he'd be ready sooner and less of a risk.
I would really like to trade for Schneider as well but I don't know if St. Louis is going to get him and this way we wouldn't have to give anything up. I agree though, it would take Campbell a lot longer to be NHL ready. I just really want the Blues to get a goalie we can look forward to (Allen had a rough WJ's and other than that I haven't seen him play so I can't really tell how good he will be and from what I've heard on here, Bishop won't be anything special) but I would be really happy if we could get either Schneider or Campbell.

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03-12-2010, 08:43 PM
  #31
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If by a rough WJC you mean he lost in the gold medal game, then yes, Jake Allen had a rough WJC.

But the stats that I can find have him with a 90.20 save percentage and a 2.06 GAA in the tournament.

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03-12-2010, 09:11 PM
  #32
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I would really like to trade for Schneider as well but I don't know if St. Louis is going to get him and this way we wouldn't have to give anything up. I agree though, it would take Campbell a lot longer to be NHL ready. I just really want the Blues to get a goalie we can look forward to (Allen had a rough WJ's and other than that I haven't seen him play so I can't really tell how good he will be and from what I've heard on here, Bishop won't be anything special) but I would be really happy if we could get either Schneider or Campbell.
I thought Allen had a very strong WJC, barring the championship game (which was not on him alone). But there was at least one game I can remember where he absolutely stone-walled the other team for the shut-out.

I can't imagine that any goalie prospect coming up in the next draft is going to be ready soon enough to join the club and make a difference as they're trying to put together the first couple runs deep into the playoffs (as in...as soon as next year or the year after).

I do think Mason for another 1 year (MAYBE 2, but preferably just the one) is reasonable. But I'd be willing to part with something for Schneider if they can manage it. Not a roster player, but a good prospect or maybe prospect / draft pick. (He's not a roster player right now either, so I don't think that's a defensible demand. Or at least not one I'd entertain, if that's the asking price (talking one of our young studs).)

This off-season is going to really show what the Blues' front office is made of. Its time to make at least one and probably 2 or 3 big deals. Sign a difference-maker on offense. Find a long-term solution at goal (or re-sign Mason for a short term if its not too expensive). Maybe an experienced defender (trading someone back there now...Brewer/Jackman).

This is not the off-season to sit around and be idle and "patient". This is the year to load up the team for a real run as a contender. Not yet as a Cup favorite, but they should be gunning for a home playoff series next season.

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03-13-2010, 02:30 PM
  #33
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I don't know EJ and I have no clue if he wants to stay in St. Louis or try and get a better deal via offer sheet... or both! But there are teams (IMO) willing to offer EJ a 5 year deal at $6+ million a year. With the way 2nd contracts are becoming richer and richer I can't see EJ signing for anything below $4 million short term or $5 million for 3+ years.

So he's my question, if a team like Detroit, Boston, Vancouver, etc (picking 20+ typically) offered EJ the max comp (Their next four 1st) does St. Louis match?

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03-13-2010, 02:41 PM
  #34
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I don't know EJ and I have no clue if he wants to stay in St. Louis or try and get a better deal via offer sheet... or both! But there are teams (IMO) willing to offer EJ a 5 year deal at $6+ million a year. With the way 2nd contracts are becoming richer and richer I can't see EJ signing for anything below $4 million short term or $5 million for 3+ years.

So he's my question, if a team like Detroit, Boston, Vancouver, etc (picking 20+ typically) offered EJ the max comp (Their next four 1st) does St. Louis match?
I think the Blues will get EJ re-signed before other teams can give him an offer sheet. I'm also confident they would match just about any offer sheet, unless maybe it's something ridiculous from a bad team that would have high picks.

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03-13-2010, 02:49 PM
  #35
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I think the Blues will get EJ re-signed before other teams can give him an offer sheet. I'm also confident they would match just about any offer sheet, unless maybe it's something ridiculous from a bad team that would have high picks.
The problem with this thinking is you don't know where those picks will fall. If any team signs an RFA, the picks come from the 2011 draft on, and the 2011 draft looks bad outside of the top few picks.

It's hard to judge a team from year to year, Boston was a top team last year, this year they might miss the playoffs. Young talented teams like Columbus, Atlanta, Buffalo etc might only be an EJ away from being a Cup contenting team.

As I always say, Hope for the best but be ready for the worst. As a Boston fan, I hoped for the best with our 2 huge RFAs last year but was ready for the worst, and the worst happened with Kessel. As I said, I have no idea what the relationship is like between St. Louis and EJ, the relationship between Kessel and Boston was strained at best. There was no way he was going to sign for less then $5+ a year. Maybe EJ and management get a long better, but you never know.

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03-13-2010, 03:10 PM
  #36
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The problem with this thinking is you don't know where those picks will fall. If any team signs an RFA, the picks come from the 2011 draft on, and the 2011 draft looks bad outside of the top few picks.

It's hard to judge a team from year to year, Boston was a top team last year, this year they might miss the playoffs. Young talented teams like Columbus, Atlanta, Buffalo etc might only be an EJ away from being a Cup contenting team.

As I always say, Hope for the best but be ready for the worst. As a Boston fan, I hoped for the best with our 2 huge RFAs last year but was ready for the worst, and the worst happened with Kessel. As I said, I have no idea what the relationship is like between St. Louis and EJ, the relationship between Kessel and Boston was strained at best. There was no way he was going to sign for less then $5+ a year. Maybe EJ and management get a long better, but you never know.
The "relationship" is quite good with EJ and St. Louis. Management has made it clear that he's the franchise player and they're going to do everything they can to keep him. The Blues don't have the cap issues that Boston had, so they'll have no problem re-signing him. Like I said, there's no way they don't match an offer sheet unless it's something outrageous.

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03-13-2010, 04:19 PM
  #37
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I think the knee injury and the Blues' response (paying EJ anyway) had to create some good will and a bit of a sense of debt from EJ. He's young enough, and the Blues will offer him a fair deal, its hard to see this being much of an issue (the extension). He's no primadonna trying to get more than his value. At least I'd be shocked if it went that way.

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03-13-2010, 07:20 PM
  #38
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I'd like to draft Campbell also. I'm guessing he'll go in the mid to late first round, or early second round. The Blues will likely have a mid first round pick, so I wonder if they'll be interested in him.

I think I'd rather trade for Schneider though, if we can get him without giving up too much. He looks to have the potential of an elite goalie as well and is further along in the development process, so he'd be ready sooner and less of a risk.
I doubt that The Blues will risk a mid 1st rounder on a goalie. They take so long to mature, and thus, have much more bust potential, and less value even when they become NHL ready, due to the loss of early years with no NHL production. When a team has multiple picks in the early rounds, they can afford to gamble on a goalie. That's what happened when they picked Allen.

They can get their next NHL goalie in a trade or free agent signing (including possibly re-signing Mason).

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03-13-2010, 08:16 PM
  #39
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If by a rough WJC you mean he lost in the gold medal game, then yes, Jake Allen had a rough WJC.

But the stats that I can find have him with a 90.20 save percentage and a 2.06 GAA in the tournament.
Look at who Canada played in that tournament. Latvia, Swiss (2), Slovakia, and uSA (2). He struggled against the only legitimate competition in the tournament, in both games. He played terrible in the finals, no one can say otherwise. In the game on New Years, he let in 4 goals on 28 shots.

It's easy to have good numbers when the team in front of you completely dominates every single game (besides the USA, which he looked shaky). Stats aren't everything.

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03-13-2010, 09:36 PM
  #40
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Look at who Canada played in that tournament. Latvia, Swiss (2), Slovakia, and uSA (2). He struggled against the only legitimate competition in the tournament, in both games. He played terrible in the finals, no one can say otherwise. In the game on New Years, he let in 4 goals on 28 shots.

It's easy to have good numbers when the team in front of you completely dominates every single game (besides the USA, which he looked shaky). Stats aren't everything.
Yeah but he also had good numbers in his Junior league before being traded to a, as I recall, much better team. (yes I'm aware of the competition level being a bit lower)

Goalies' progression is such a bizarre thing to put a microscope to, because you have guys like Tim Thomas who seem to come out of nowhere to set the world on fire. Steve Mason who turned his team into a playoff team only to stumble in the first round and now seems average enough to need to fire the head coach and look for new ways to win. Biron went from trying to get a huge contract to barely getting one at all and has always had a stable yet unimpressive career. Even Osgood has pinballed between past his prime and having career defining games/series until this current season.

It's really just incredibly hard to pinpoint what games show you what to expect in the future and which stats are the best indicator of that possibility coming to fruition. I think that's a big part of why our organization can't decide when they're developing a goalie the right way or if that player needs to be questioned and given another look to see if it's time to move on.

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03-13-2010, 09:43 PM
  #41
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Yeah but he also had good numbers in his Junior league before being traded to a, as I recall, much better team. (yes I'm aware of the competition level being a bit lower)

Goalies' progression is such a bizarre thing to put a microscope to, because you have guys like Tim Thomas who seem to come out of nowhere to set the world on fire. Steve Mason who turned his team into a playoff team only to stumble in the first round and now seems average enough to need to fire the head coach and look for new ways to win. Biron went from trying to get a huge contract to barely getting one at all and has always had a stable yet unimpressive career. Even Osgood has pinballed between past his prime and having career defining games/series until this current season.

It's really just incredibly hard to pinpoint what games show you what to expect in the future and which stats are the best indicator of that possibility coming to fruition. I think that's a big part of why our organization can't decide when they're developing a goalie the right way or if that player needs to be questioned and given another look to see if it's time to move on.
What you quoted I wasn't saying if I think he will have a good future or not, for all I know he could be a really good goalie, I've only seen the WJ's. I was just pointing out that he didn't have that good of a WJ's and you can't just look at his stats from that tournament because their was some weak competition in that tournament. The only tough competition he struggled.

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03-13-2010, 11:34 PM
  #42
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What you quoted I wasn't saying if I think he will have a good future or not, for all I know he could be a really good goalie, I've only seen the WJ's. I was just pointing out that he didn't have that good of a WJ's and you can't just look at his stats from that tournament because their was some weak competition in that tournament. The only tough competition he struggled.
I didn't get to watch the WJC, was Jack Campbell really that much more dominant? And is a short tournament really enough of a sample to justify drafting a goalie with our 1st round pick this year?

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03-14-2010, 12:45 PM
  #43
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I didn't get to watch the WJC, was Jack Campbell really that much more dominant? And is a short tournament really enough of a sample to justify drafting a goalie with our 1st round pick this year?
No. He was flopping around a bit, relying on reflexes and not sound positioning. I give him credit for getting the gold, but I didn't see anything there that would make me pull the trigger on an early pick. He has a long way to go to be considered an NHL-caliber goalie. There is no guarantee he ever does.

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03-15-2010, 07:35 PM
  #44
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I thought Allen had a very strong WJC, barring the championship game (which was not on him alone). But there was at least one game I can remember where he absolutely stone-walled the other team for the shut-out.

I can't imagine that any goalie prospect coming up in the next draft is going to be ready soon enough to join the club and make a difference as they're trying to put together the first couple runs deep into the playoffs (as in...as soon as next year or the year after).

I do think Mason for another 1 year (MAYBE 2, but preferably just the one) is reasonable. But I'd be willing to part with something for Schneider if they can manage it. Not a roster player, but a good prospect or maybe prospect / draft pick. (He's not a roster player right now either, so I don't think that's a defensible demand. Or at least not one I'd entertain, if that's the asking price (talking one of our young studs).)

This off-season is going to really show what the Blues' front office is made of. Its time to make at least one and probably 2 or 3 big deals. Sign a difference-maker on offense. Find a long-term solution at goal (or re-sign Mason for a short term if its not too expensive). Maybe an experienced defender (trading someone back there now...Brewer/Jackman).

This is not the off-season to sit around and be idle and "patient". This is the year to load up the team for a real run as a contender. Not yet as a Cup favorite, but they should be gunning for a home playoff series next season.
Allen in the WJC, it's hard to judge the performance because the only quality team that he faced was the US. Slovakia isn't a consistent top team like Russia/Sweden to get a gage of how he played.

Vancouver does want to move Schneider, but not for picks or anything like that. It be a prospect for prospect type of deal with maybe a pick or two to balance things out. Vancouver is looking for NHL ready prospects however, not guys who will need another year in junior or the AHL, as Schneider would be in the NHL next season.

Campbell, yeah, you're waiting about 4 years for him. Allen, 2 more at least.

Never rush a goalie. Montreal and Columbus brought Price and Mason up following their junior career and after 3 years, Price is still trying to establish his game, and Mason is having a horrible sophomore year.

Rask played 2 years in the AHL and looks to be taking over the role in Boston. Bernier in LA is in year 2 in the AHL and has great numbers. Expect to see him with the Kings and challenging Quick for playing time. Schneider is in year 3 in the AHL. If he were on about 20 other diffenent franchises he'd be in the NHL now as the backup.

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03-15-2010, 11:17 PM
  #45
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No. He was flopping around a bit, relying on reflexes and not sound positioning. I give him credit for getting the gold, but I didn't see anything there that would make me pull the trigger on an early pick. He has a long way to go to be considered an NHL-caliber goalie. There is no guarantee he ever does.
If we can't get Schneider on draft day or another goalie, I think we do need to take him with our first pick, other teams are going to take him with their first pick, why not the Blues? We have quality forward prospects and we have quality D prospects, if anyone can waste a pick on a top tier goalie, it's St. Louis. Campbell was underage at that tournament and helped USA get gold, St. Louis needs a goalie. If we can get Schneider then great, draft someone else, but we'll see how that turns out.

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03-16-2010, 12:35 AM
  #46
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We've got tons of defensemen prospects, so unless there's a good goal scorer on the table when we pick, I don't see any reason not to grab Campbell.

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03-16-2010, 12:53 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by stlblues9 View Post
If we can't get Schneider on draft day or another goalie, I think we do need to take him with our first pick, other teams are going to take him with their first pick, why not the Blues? We have quality forward prospects and we have quality D prospects, if anyone can waste a pick on a top tier goalie, it's St. Louis. Campbell was underage at that tournament and helped USA get gold, St. Louis needs a goalie. If we can get Schneider then great, draft someone else, but we'll see how that turns out.
I dont really see how Schneider relates to drafting Campbell. If we acquired Schneider, I assume it would be as an NHL spot for next year. If Campbell is the next Steve Mason, he is still 2-3 years away from reaching the NHL. And odds are he isnt the next Steve Mason.

Im not a big fan of using 1st round picks on goalies, since they are a crapshoot. I just like the idea of drafting a goalie at some point in every draft.

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03-16-2010, 01:07 AM
  #48
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I dont really see how Schneider relates to drafting Campbell. If we acquired Schneider, I assume it would be as an NHL spot for next year. If Campbell is the next Steve Mason, he is still 2-3 years away from reaching the NHL. And odds are he isnt the next Steve Mason.

Im not a big fan of using 1st round picks on goalies, since they are a crapshoot. I just like the idea of drafting a goalie at some point in every draft.
Yeah, no go on Campbell please. I'd much rather draft a forward, higher success rate.

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03-16-2010, 01:16 AM
  #49
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I just like the idea of drafting a goalie at some point in every draft.
I agree with this, goalies are risky but if you draft one often, that's a decent chance one of them will pan out. There's been plenty of great goalies drafted in the late round.

But I wouldn't be opposed to taking a chance on a promising goalie in the first round, if there aren't any goal scorers left. We've got tons of playmakers and defensemen.

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03-16-2010, 01:30 AM
  #50
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so whats the word on mason? is he happy there? is the team happy with him?

do you think he will get a raise?

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