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Holmgren assists in developing blindside hit/hits to head rule

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Old
03-10-2010, 11:40 AM
  #1
JLHockeyKnight
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Holmgren assists in developing blindside hit/hits to head rule

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/stor...p-nhl-gms.html

Quote:
The league's 30 general managers wrapped up three days of meetings in Florida with a new rule that allows referees to assess a minor or major penalty for blindside hits that target the head.

The penalty is subject to approval from the competition committee in the summer and has not yet been given a specific name. The committee includes four NHL players.

The GMs agreed "unanimously" on the new penalty in light of several recent incidents of players getting injured on checks to the head.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/stor...#ixzz0hnRoL1bs
Quote:
The group that worked on coming up with possible rule changes on Tuesday was made up of eight general managers:

* Brian Burke, Toronto.
* Ken Holland, Detroit.
* Paul Holmgren, Philadelphia.
* Lou Lamoriello, New Jersey.
* Joe Nieuwendyk, Dallas.
* Darcy Regier, Buffalo.
* Jim Rutherford, Carolina.
* Doug Wilson, San Jose.
Edit: Just realized it was in the The Official Flyers' Board NHL Discussion Thread & Fantasy Talk #2 ‎thread. I guess everyone can continue here. Props to ilovetheflyers8 and CanadianFlyer88 for bringing the topic up.

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03-10-2010, 11:45 AM
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This is a pretty big deal.







Last edited by Opus: 03-10-2010 at 11:47 AM. Reason: fixed YT imbeds...
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03-10-2010, 11:46 AM
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that's all well and good, but he should be spending his extra time taking basic college courses so he can learn how to manage the ****ing salary cap. or possibly receiving corpal punishment for not getting a goalie at the deadline

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03-10-2010, 11:48 AM
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When asked what he thought of the growing concern over blatant hits to the head, Holmgren swiftly replied -- "What can you do?"

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03-10-2010, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CannonMTG View Post
that's all well and good, but he should be spending his extra time taking basic college courses so he can learn how to manage the ****ing salary cap. or possibly receiving corpal punishment for not getting a goalie at the deadline
we have a goalie

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03-10-2010, 11:55 AM
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From today's Montreal Gazette:


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Old
03-10-2010, 12:01 PM
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Here's the article I was looking for by SanFilippo.

http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2...2707641747.txt

It was after the Montreal game in Nov. 2008. That's when Kovalev elbowed Gagne, and there was a huge uproar. That's when Gagne himself spoke out. It's also when Ross got creamed.

Quote:
“When you go to make a hit like that usually you are going to take away the puck, but when you look at it, the puck is not even there,” Gagne said. “So, was he coming to take away the puck? I don’t think so. He was coming to hurt me. I have marks on my face so you can tell it was a hit to my head.”

The league reviewed the hit and chose not to fine or suspend Kovalev. Which aggravated Gagne even more.

“I don’t know if it’s because we’re the Flyers or what,” Gagne said. “If it was us who did the hit like that it would have been at least two minutes. We would have been suspended 10 games. We’re talking about getting rid of the blows to the head in this league. We have to do something about it.

“(Paul Holmgren) said we have to start talking about it. It’s not going to come from the league. It’s not going to come from the officials. It has to come from the players. So we have to start to do something. After what happened last night – I’m ready to be that guy.”

Gagne said he spoke to referee Marc Joanette on the ice twice about dirty hits by the Canadiens. The first was a brutal check from behind on rookie Jared Ross by Montreal’s Thomas Plekanec.

“I talked to him after the hit on Ross and asked why it was only two minutes,” Gagne said. “He said he didn’t get hurt; that’s why it was two minutes. Then, after my hit, I showed him the cuts on my face and asked him, ‘Did you see what Kovalev did to me?’ He said, ‘Yes. It was a shoulder to the face. It’s legal. It’s not an elbow. It’s a shoulder.’”


Can't find the hit on Ross.

Regardless, this is going to change a lot in the game I think. Perhaps more than we realize right now.

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03-10-2010, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
From today's Montreal Gazette:


I concur with the cartoonist.

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03-10-2010, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonMTG View Post
that's all well and good, but he should be spending his extra time taking basic college courses so he can learn how to manage the ****ing salary cap. or possibly receiving corpal punishment for not getting a goalie at the deadline
Holmgren is ultimately responsible for every aspect of the department to which he oversees but his assistant Barry Hanrahan specializes in the salary cap and has a sports management background and is a grad of the Widener University School of Law.

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?bcid=10843

http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landi...824&feedID=704

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03-10-2010, 12:28 PM
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Regarding all the vids posted...

What the hell does the Carter/Salmela hit have to do with anything? It was shoulder-to-shoulder.

The Richards hit, ok...I can see him being given a penalty for that. Although, I still don't think it was strictly a headshot...he seemed to make some contact with Booth's upper chest area as well as the head if you ask me.

The Cooke hit...now that was strictly a headshot. Not an elbow...it was shoulder-to-head, but still, he aimed straight for the head and knew exactly what he was doing. In a lot of these types of situations, I think the players need to get their head up(Sutter/Weight for instance), but that was a good example of a situation where a player shouldn't be allowed to target the head, and it's good that they'll hopefully now be able to hand out a penalty for it.

The Kovalev hit...not sure what that has to do with anything. Gagne needed to get his head up there and watch where he was going...end of story.


The other side of this of course is that perhaps if the Bruins didn't have to worry about the instigator, we might not have to worry about players like Cooke making hits like that one.

edit: A good example of a headshot on Gagne would be that Malkin elbow earlier this season. That should've been a frigging four minute penalty, and Malkin got nothing. And, nobody kicked his ass or anyone else's as a result. The only thing that came out of that was Gags gripping up Malkin...then the whistle blew...then our goal was disallowed. Then we lost the game. Man, that sucked. Malkin still needs an asskicking over that one. God damn gooofyass Sylvester Stallone looking mother****er.


Last edited by claude boivin lives: 03-10-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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Old
03-10-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
we have a goalie
this is an age old argument (that isn't worth arguing, given the circumstance)...we don't have a goalie. we have a third stringer who let's up 1-2 soft goals a night

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Old
03-10-2010, 12:30 PM
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NHL. com has live video from Boca. If anyone is interested, here is the feed (Panthers' GM coming up):

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...id=DL|NHL|home

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Old
03-10-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
When asked what he thought of the growing concern over blatant hits to the head, Holmgren swiftly replied -- "What can you do?"
/thread

In all seriousness, though, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I'm very, very happy that we're looking at eliminating these career- and life-threatening injuries, but... Big hits need to be in the game. The late head shot after the puck's gone, certainly not, but if the puck carrier is coming in with his head down and you crush him because he's dangling, I still like that hit. Doing it from the blind side is pretty questionable, sure, but I think maybe big hitters start shying away if they think they'll get a 5 for catching a piece of the head on a hit that would otherwise be predominantly shoulder-shoulder or shoulder-chest, and we see less good big hits in the game (plenty of which do not result in injury).

I obviously don't want to see players getting hurt, but I just don't want the sport to be any less physical.

We'll see what the ramifications of this rule are if it goes through, though....

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03-10-2010, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Regarding all the vids posted...

What the hell does the Carter/Salmela hit have to do with anything? It was shoulder-to-shoulder.

The Richards hit, ok...I can see him being given a penalty for that. Although, I still don't think it was strictly a headshot...he seemed to make some contact with Booth's upper chest area as well as the head if you ask me.

The Cooke hit...now that was strictly a headshot. Not an elbow...it was shoulder-to-head, but still, he aimed straight for the head and knew exactly what he was doing. In a lot of these types of situations, I think the players need to get their head up(Sutter/Weight for instance), but that was a good example of a situation where a player shouldn't be allowed to target the head, and it's good that they'll hopefully now be able to hand out a penalty for it.

The Kovalev hit...not sure what that has to do with anything. Gagne needed to get his head up there and watch where he was going...end of story.


The other side of this of course is that perhaps if the Bruins didn't have to worry about the instigator, we might not have to worry about players like Cooke making hits like that one.
Exactly. These are all now going to be judgement calls by the officials. Now a hit like Carter's on Salmela, though legal, will be regarded as an official penalty.

Cooke's hit is VASTLY different than Carter's and fairly different from Richards'. It deserved a suspension in my opinion. It wasn't just a shoulder/body check. It was a swing out while Savards' head was low after a shot. There's a little gray area there, but it was different.

What this means, or at least what I'm afraid it might mean, is that all these hits will be viewed as equals and will be penalized as equals.

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03-10-2010, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Exactly. These are all now going to be judgement calls by the officials. Now a hit like Carter's on Salmela, though legal, will be regarded as an official penalty.

Cooke's hit is VASTLY different than Carter's and fairly different from Richards'. It deserved a suspension in my opinion. It wasn't just a shoulder/body check. It was a swing out while Savards' head was low after a shot. There's a little gray area there, but it was different.

What this means, or at least what I'm afraid it might mean, is that all these hits will be viewed as equals and will be penalized as equals.
Fair enough, I didn't initially see the point you were trying to make. I definitely agree with you there. This might very well lead to fans whining about the officiating even more. Although, for all the godawful random penalty calls I see, I'm not sure it'll be that upsetting to deal with a few more crappy incorrect calls if it means potentially keeping even one player from having to deal with what Savard just did. We'll see...I'm ambivalent I guess.

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03-10-2010, 12:45 PM
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Yeah, as much as I think the Carter hit was clean, if Carter taking a penalty for that means that we won't see hits of the dirtier variety, I can deal with it.

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03-10-2010, 12:47 PM
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I agree the Carter hit on Salmela is far differant then the Richards hit and the Cooke hit. Salmela hit his head after Carter hit him. Maybe the Carter hit was a second or so late.
I am glad the league is finally adressing this. The game is faster. The players are bigger. My only concern in if there is a big shoulder to shoulder hit, and a player is injured when his head hits the ice you will get a penalty. But thats it. They need to do something about it.

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03-10-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Fair enough, I didn't initially see the point you were trying to make. I definitely agree with you there. This might very well lead to fans whining about the officiating even more. Although, for all the godawful random penalty calls I see, I'm not sure it'll be that upsetting to deal with a few more crappy incorrect calls if it means potentially keeping even one player from having to deal with what Savard just did. We'll see...I'm ambivalent I guess.
That's another thing entirely, but when I interviewed Messier about this very subject over the summer, he had a much more cynical view of it.

In the end, he said that this is the reality of hockey. He believes that no rules or anything is going to be able to prevent these issues.

I agree with him to an extent. That's why he took up that project with Cascade to develop the M-11 helmet.

I'm not so sure the league went in the right direction with this. While I think something had to be done soon, I don't think it had to be something this severe. I'd rather them do something minor now and think about the consequences more over the offseason, than try to sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible.

I, like everyone, agree that the safety of the players should come first regardless. This though may just create more problems than solutions if the NHL does not handle it in the right way.

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03-10-2010, 12:49 PM
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Messier is one of the biggest cheapshot artists in NHL history, so I don't think his opinion is too valid in this case.

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03-10-2010, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Messier is one of the biggest cheapshot artists in NHL history, so I don't think his opinion is too valid in this case.
Don't throw out words just because you feel like it. I don't care how he played. That doesn't effect how he works now. It's a little disrespectful for you to act like that when he is at the forefront of a technology working to eliminate concussions from the game.

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03-10-2010, 12:52 PM
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The worst part of this hit is that when he's lying on the ground and concussed, they make him listen to Coldplay.

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03-10-2010, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Messier is one of the biggest cheapshot artists in NHL history, so I don't think his opinion is too valid in this case.
case in point. Messier's crosscheck to the face of Doug Gilmour in the 97 playoffs that changed the complextion of that series.
Great player, but he was a dirty SOB.
It would be like Ulf Samuelsson being on a commitee to end knee injures from dirty checks.

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03-10-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Don't throw out words just because you feel like it. I don't care how he played. That doesn't effect how he works now. It's a little disrespectful for you to act like that when he is at the forefront of a technology working to eliminate concussions from the game.
Are you from the USSR?

Messier was a dirty, cheapshot artist who got lucky that he never injured anybody seriously and apparently wants that kind of play to stick around.

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03-10-2010, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
case in point. Messier's crosscheck to the face of Doug Gilmour in the 97 playoffs that changed the complextion of that series.
Don't worry, Messier's new technology will automatically make crosschecks to the face ineffective.

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03-10-2010, 01:00 PM
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Are you from the USSR?
You're the one who had the Arshavin avatar for months. It doesn't get much more communist that a russian soccer player.

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