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Kevin Lowe on the Jason Gregor Show

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Old
03-11-2010, 03:21 PM
  #126
Jmask83
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Originally Posted by winfive View Post
Doesn't matter because he wasn't going to be here after next year anyway.Agreeing to one year deals says that he was waiting to get to UFA anyway.I had no problem with Grebs but give me someone who wants to be here.
Cogliano said he wants to be here very recently.

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Old
03-11-2010, 03:35 PM
  #127
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Re: trading with CLB, I could see something like this happening. You are right - Hemsky is exactly what they need - he and Nash could be electric. They have been rebuilding for a gazillion years now with little success to show for it. I could see them being willing to get a top liner to play with Nash on the cheap.

I think the "+ ???" in your proposal would have to be substantial to get Filatov AND a top 5 pick, IMO:

Hemsky + Omark/Chorney/Nash (hopefully not more than a B prospect) + Nash 2nd

for

Filatov + 5th ish


Then I would take Hall/Seguin, and Nino, or one of the top Dmen. (Trading down might even be a possibility to get two more 1sts (PHX, ANA)). That would be a fantastic draft and would definately speed up the rebuild - something that they WILL want to do in this market.
Okay - I just looked at capgeek.com. We would need to take salary back or else they would be happier having Filatov and their top pick making peanuts. They have a lot of forwards signed for a long time at fairly high cap hits. They are looking to be in a world of hurt right now and even worse next year when Nash gets his fat raise.

Rick Nash 8 yrs @ $7,800,000
Kristian Huselius 2 yrs @ $4,750,000
R.J. Umberger 2 years @ $3,750,000
Antoine Vermette 5 years @ $3,750,000
Derick Brassard 4 years @ $3,200,000
Samuel Pahlsson 2 years @ $2,650,000
Chris Clark 1 yr @ $2,633,333
Jakub Voracek $1,270,833 (one more year, then a decent raise)
F Nikita Filatov $2,195,833

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Old
03-11-2010, 03:35 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Great to see you back, oilerbear! Because I'm really looking forward to a follow up to your post here

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...1#post17688311

Since, as you said, points per cap hit means everything, I'm just curious if this is still true since Horcoff is doing his best impression of a sack of manure, or if you've somehow "changed your mind". Thanks!
People seem to forget that Horcoff was a useful player when he signed his monster contract. It was always high relative to his performance and role on the team, but it was palatable when he was playing well. I don't think anyone (well I could be wrong) could argue that, right now, the contract is anything but a disaster.

But hey, it's only year 1 of his contract, so he could still rebound (crossing my fingers).

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Old
03-11-2010, 03:43 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Blatherblah View Post
People seem to forget that Horcoff was a useful player when he signed his monster contract. It was always high relative to his performance and role on the team, but it was palatable when he was playing well. I don't think anyone (well I could be wrong) could argue that, right now, the contract is anything but a disaster.

But hey, it's only year 1 of his contract, so he could still rebound (crossing my fingers).
None of that has to do with the fact that points per cap hit is all that matters, you see, so I was just hoping oilerbear had an update on the Crosby-versus-Horcoff comparison, especially since his favourite Legitimate Number One Centre is sucking so much wind these days.

And of "coarse", I'm wondering if Timmy the Fifth Grader ended up getting held back a year or two.

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Old
03-11-2010, 03:46 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Agent Zero View Post
Take a read at how thrilled Oiler fans were about the contract!

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=508034
It's funny reading a little bit of that thread and seeing how many of the trolls have been banned since then.

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Old
03-11-2010, 04:09 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
My dream is to get Adam Larsson next season. To have a Sweedish core of Svensson, Lander and Larsson would be fricken awesome and then have some solid complimentary players like Eberle and Hall/Seguin, Hemsky, Penner, Smid and Gagner.

Then some role players on the team like Hartikainen, Nash and Peckham. I really like the direction of this team so far, but it is crucial that we get another top 5 pick next season and even more ideal if we can get Larsson.
Larsson, Hall/Seguin, Gagner, MPS, Eberle... now that's a team.

Still, I doubt we'll be as tragically bad next year. I'm not a fan of injuries as an excuse, but I do think that a normal amount of injuries pushes this team into the 20-25 range next year.

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Old
03-11-2010, 04:10 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by hemskyforpm View Post
I have a feeling he's going to be proving a lot of people wrong in Nashville. Poile's a virtuoso with defensemen, and I really think he can transform into a great player while he's being sheltered by guys like Weber and Suter. He still could have done that here, but the fans had given up on him. It's really too bad. I liked what he brought to the table.
I don't think Grebeshkov is a horrible player, but I think that it'd be better to be able to hide him behind players like Weber and Suter, as opposed to.... Souray? Visnovsky?

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Old
03-11-2010, 04:42 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by deanmoriarty View Post
Did he say anything specific about Lander? It seems the org really likes him, I wonder if they think he can make the team next year?
No. He just included him with a list of people he mentioned that they thought would be a "good player". He said he could include others on his list of who he thought was a good player, but he thought he'd let us see how good they turn out. He seemed pleased with the scouting from the last several years.

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Old
03-11-2010, 04:55 PM
  #134
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I understand that dealing Vishnovsky was practical when we won't win for a few years, but if it's a rebuild like, like the interview says, I'd have preferred trying to get a first for Vish... (confused smiley)

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Old
03-11-2010, 05:04 PM
  #135
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People who think the Oilers will just get rid of/buyout/waive Horcoff now have an embarassing misunderstanding of how to rebuild a hockey club. He might be a crappy contract on a team that's trying to win anything, but on a team like this (chock full of rookies next season and not exactly making a cup run), he's got purpose and how much he's being paid matters very little in the interim.

Repeat after me: Shawn Horcoff is the kind of verteran and leader you want around these young kids. He doesn't have the skill, he never had the skill, but he battles hard and plays smart, responsible hockey. That's something that can rub off on the kids over the next while.

2-3 years from now? Oh yeah... bury him in the minors. Buy him out. Trade him for a bag of pucks. He'd only weight down a team trying to make a dent in the playoffs. But another reason to be patient is that things can only get better for him, and he can only increase in value. You don't ditch him when he's hit rock bottom and you've got nothing but time. Who knows, we might be able to make a legitimate trade with him yet.

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Old
03-11-2010, 07:06 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
None of that has to do with the fact that points per cap hit is all that matters, you see, so I was just hoping oilerbear had an update on the Crosby-versus-Horcoff comparison, especially since his favourite Legitimate Number One Centre is sucking so much wind these days.

And of "coarse", I'm wondering if Timmy the Fifth Grader ended up getting held back a year or two.
Yeah, that points per cap hit thing is bizarre. No way I'm defending that

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Old
03-11-2010, 07:32 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Meanashell11 View Post
I am pretty sure you can forget about buying out Horcoff. Sure he's having a bad season but there is no way the Oilers buy him out, they put him on waivers and somebody will pick him up and in any event, I want him back next season. He is not as bad as some are making him out to be. Getting prettty tired of all the hate on this board.
No one would pick horcoff up on waivers, no one. He's way to overpaid.

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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
The natural response to that is something like "You talk a lot about accountability, so how can you (as director of hockey operations) be held accountable for the last-place results across all teams of the Oilers organization?"

My guess is that it wasn't asked, though.
He'd probably say, I am accountable for our results, everyone is accountable for the poor results we've had right from the bottom of the organization to the top.

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Why? This solves nothing, IMO people should stop looking at Lowe and start looking at Tambo it's now clear whos pulling the strings behind the scenes and Tambo has done nothing to help this team.
Well Tambo did a lot at this trade deadline. He opened up a lot of cap room for our future moving forward. Did you expect him to come in and rip the organization apart like Burke did in TO? Look how good thats worked in TO, they've won what 1 more game than us? Who has a brighter future?

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Old
03-11-2010, 07:40 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
He'd probably say, I am accountable for our results, everyone is accountable for the poor results we've had right from the bottom of the organization to the top.
So the next question is naturally "how are you accountable?"

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Old
03-11-2010, 07:44 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
So the next question is naturally "how are you accountable?"
He'd probably say. Well ultimately that's up to my boss.

What do you want him to say? I should be fired?

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Old
03-11-2010, 07:58 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
He'd probably say. Well ultimately that's up to my boss.
As soon as Lowe sticks one foot out he has to know he's going down.

"How was the coaching staff held accountable?"

Quote:
What do you want him to say? I should be fired?
Oh, he'd never say that. It's much more rewarding to lead him to the watering hole.

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Old
03-11-2010, 08:00 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
None of that has to do with the fact that points per cap hit is all that matters, you see, so I was just hoping oilerbear had an update on the Crosby-versus-Horcoff comparison, especially since his favourite Legitimate Number One Centre is sucking so much wind these days.

And of "coarse", I'm wondering if Timmy the Fifth Grader ended up getting held back a year or two.
Man, that guy oilerbear was calling stupid could easily feel petty about the whole thing.

Hope he shows up to bask in the glory...


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Old
03-11-2010, 08:14 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
As soon as Lowe sticks one foot out he has to know he's going down.

"How was the coaching staff held accountable?"



Oh, he'd never say that. It's much more rewarding to lead him to the watering hole.
You don't think that the coaching staff is being held accountable for this season?

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Old
03-11-2010, 08:26 PM
  #143
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You don't think that the coaching staff is being held accountable for this season?
I think you're forgetting what happened to our coaching staff we had last year. You know, the guys we had just before this season. And what happened to them. Hmm.

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Old
03-11-2010, 08:48 PM
  #144
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RE

clearly it is being blamed on injury

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Old
03-11-2010, 08:59 PM
  #145
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I think you're forgetting what happened to our coaching staff we had last year. You know, the guys we had just before this season. And what happened to them. Hmm.
So the coaching staff is held accountable, so whats the problem?

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Old
03-11-2010, 09:01 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
Well Tambo did a lot at this trade deadline. He opened up a lot of cap room for our future moving forward. Did you expect him to come in and rip the organization apart like Burke did in TO? Look how good thats worked in TO, they've won what 1 more game than us? Who has a brighter future?
This is the dumbest argument for Tambo I have seen. I'm getting tired of all the people *****ing about how this season is Lowe's fault. Tambo has been on the job for 2 years and were basically still seeing the exact same team Lowe left. Tambo before the off season last year said that he was going to add size to the team and KNEW that this team was too small. But what does he do? He spends the whole summer chasing Heatley, signs Khabibulin and adds a huge forward in Comrie. Great Job Tambo I'm not even going to bring up what I think of the deadline deals specifically the Vishnovsky deal.

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Old
03-11-2010, 09:02 PM
  #147
Giant Moo
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Originally Posted by Oil Gauge View Post
So the coaching staff is held accountable, so whats the problem?
Right. The coaching staff was held accountable by their firing.

Not a problem. It's the solution.

Lowe says "I'm accountable". Is he accountable like the coaching staff is accountable? If not, how else?

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Old
03-11-2010, 09:07 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Right. The coaching staff was held accountable by their firing.

Not a problem. It's the solution.

Lowe says "I'm accountable". Is he accountable like the coaching staff is accountable? If not, how else?
He is accountable like the coaching staff is, he has to answer to a superior and if his superior thinks he should be fired then based on his performance then I am sure he will be.

And as President of Hockey Operations I don't think his performance warrants that.

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Old
03-11-2010, 09:10 PM
  #149
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He is accountable like the coaching staff is, he has to answer to a superior and if his superior thinks he should be fired then based on his performance then I am sure he will be.

And as President of Hockey Operations I don't think his performance warrants that.
Let's say he was the VP of Chemical Operations for a company that manufactured four different compounds. And let's say that after he became VP, each one of those divisions tanked and was the worst in their respective domains. He'd be out on his butt before the end of the quarter.

His job demands results. This isn't a case of being average or having a rough year. This is a case of having the worst results possible at every level of your job. And consistently being that bad over several years.

This is why I wonder if Katz is treating his financial responsibility w.r.t. the Oilers seriously. He came from a ruthless industry and forged an empire. And he didn't get there by allowing his management team to bleed red ink for four years in a row.

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03-11-2010, 09:15 PM
  #150
Ol' Jase
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How many centers have been .75PPG (top 30 for center: IE first line)and Faced tough Competition. Largely in Defensive zone Starts and not the soft offensive zone play and outscored. From 05-06 to 08-09. The answer is one. There is only one center in the league good enough to do this.

This year how ever he has been brutul for the first under a coach who could not beat his own .......

The nice thing is he is brutul for the first 40 of a new contract then gold the rest. I will take the last 8 games of Horcoff now that he doesn't give a **** about the booing or the contract pressure.

8GM 1G 5A +4 Me thinks he may be back.
It is beyond bizarre that, even though you have been shown differently time and time again that this isn't accurate, you cling to the notion that not only is Horcoff an elite player, but he is in fact the best centre in the league.

I'd love to discuss it rationally, I really would, but your grasp on the context of the numbers you hold so dear is so utterly wrong, that it is not even remotely of interest to do so.

By the way, we learned the word context in special needs class today, so I'm glad I got a chance to use it.


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