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The actual problem with this team is defense.

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Old
03-10-2010, 08:43 PM
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Bird Law
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The actual problem with this team is defense.

We've had a hole year of anemic offense. Guys who can't score even if with an open net and a point blank shot.

The offense can be an issue at times, but we've been able to win games with low offense in the past.

The problem with the team, this year, is defense. Wade Redden has managed to regress even further from last year. Dan Girardi has become one of the worst d-men in the league in his own zone. Matt Gilroy shows some decent thigns once in a while, but is usually a huge liability. Michael Del Zotto is a 19 year old offensive rookie and we're seeing the growing pains with him (though he's been better defensively than the previously mentioned players, which is sad).

The only guys we have who are good in their own end are Marc Staal and Michael Rozsival. You just cannot win with a defense as bad and pourous as ours really is. With all the hate Rozsival gets, he's at least a legitimate NHL d-man. We have 4 guys on this team who are anywhere from below average (Del Zotto) to putrid (Girardi and Redden) in their own zone. The guys don't know how to cover anyone, constantly make the wrong reads, and simply fail to actually defend.

People love to rip Torts for everything. Torts can't really make dreadful players that much better, unfortunately. The loss of Tyutin is a HUGE loss for the defense with nothing to show for it.

We need a complete overhaul on defense this coming offseason. Guys like Girardi and Redden are simply not NHL caliber players on defense anymore, while guys like Del Zotto and Gilroy are still growing and cannot be counted on. It'd be a lot easier to manage if we had a rock on defense who could bail out the rookies outside of Staal and Rozsival, but 2 guys can only do so much.

I'm sure people don't want to hear it, but drafting a strict hard hitting defensive defenseman in round 1 would be a huge step forward for the team in the offseason. Either that, or we need to make every push to secure one through free agency.

I'm not saying we don't need to upgrade our offense, because we do. But the true issue with the team is the defense.

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03-10-2010, 08:44 PM
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And since I can't edit my post, the "hole" in the first sentance should read, "whole".

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03-10-2010, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
We've had a hole year of anemic offense. Guys who can't score even if with an open net and a point blank shot.

The offense can be an issue at times, but we've been able to win games with low offense in the past.

The problem with the team, this year, is defense. Wade Redden has managed to regress even further from last year. Dan Girardi has become one of the worst d-men in the league in his own zone. Matt Gilroy shows some decent thigns once in a while, but is usually a huge liability. Michael Del Zotto is a 19 year old offensive rookie and we're seeing the growing pains with him (though he's been better defensively than the previously mentioned players, which is sad).

The only guys we have who are good in their own end are Marc Staal and Michael Rozsival. You just cannot win with a defense as bad and pourous as ours really is. With all the hate Rozsival gets, he's at least a legitimate NHL d-man. We have 4 guys on this team who are anywhere from below average (Del Zotto) to putrid (Girardi and Redden) in their own zone. The guys don't know how to cover anyone, constantly make the wrong reads, and simply fail to actually defend.

People love to rip Torts for everything. Torts can't really make dreadful players that much better, unfortunately. The loss of Tyutin is a HUGE loss for the defense with nothing to show for it.

We need a complete overhaul on defense this coming offseason. Guys like Girardi and Redden are simply not NHL caliber players on defense anymore, while guys like Del Zotto and Gilroy are still growing and cannot be counted on. It'd be a lot easier to manage if we had a rock on defense who could bail out the rookies outside of Staal and Rozsival, but 2 guys can only do so much.

I'm sure people don't want to hear it, but drafting a strict hard hitting defensive defenseman in round 1 would be a huge step forward for the team in the offseason. Either that, or we need to make every push to secure one through free agency.

I'm not saying we don't need to upgrade our offense, because we do. But the true issue with the team is the defense.
There is an incredible amount of truth to this post. Thought I think we do need help on offense.

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03-10-2010, 08:46 PM
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I think part of the problem is Tort's system. He's trying to jam a square peg into a round hole with this roster by playing an aggressive offensive system. Renney got the most out his players defensively and we were able to squeak by winning 2-1 and 1-0. Torts is playing run-and-gun with a team that can't score, and as a result we're losing games 5-2 or 4-1.

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03-10-2010, 08:47 PM
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Can't ignore the facts, you really can't.

I miss Tyutin.

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03-10-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
There is an incredible amount of truth to this post. Thought I think we do need help on offense.
Oh, we absolutely do. But the most pressing area is defense.

Girardi is just a joke of a player. As of right now, he is not NHL level. I don't know what happened to the guy during his development process. If anything, I really have to just write him off as a system player who fit Renney's system and nothing more. We were able to hide his problems under Renney, but he's so easily exploited under a more offensive system.

Tonight, on the 6th goal, he didn't even realize he had to move over. Del Zotto is pursuing the man to the opposite site. Girardi should be in the process of moving at least to the middle. He stood in place until Zajac was at the face-off circle, for God's sake!

I used to defend Redden. He had a decent end of the year last year and even a decent start this year. Where has his play gone? It's like he was inspired for a few months but then, bam. It's gone again.

Either way, we have a lot of issues, but defense (and defensive smarts being key) are the main ones.

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03-10-2010, 08:49 PM
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I can't take Matt Gilroy anymore. I know people are gonna say he's a rookie but he just doesn't show me anything. Plus he's already 25 years old, this isn't a 19 year old kid like Del Zotto. MDZ does have lapses on D but I see the potential in him and what he's gonna become in the future. I juss don't see anything from Gilroy. He was supposed to be this dman that was going to help out on the powerplay, bring the puck up ice, go deep in the zone and act as a 4th forward etc etc. I haven't seen any of that since the preseason. He's not particularly good at anything on the offensive side of the puck and on defense he could be absolutely atrocious sometimes ranging from being soft on the body to being out of position.

Don't even get me started on Redden.

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03-10-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
There is an incredible amount of truth to this post. Thought I think we do need help on offense.
They need alot of help in general

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03-10-2010, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I think part of the problem is Tort's system. He's trying to jam a square peg into a round hole with this roster by playing an aggressive offensive system. Renney got the most out his players defensively and we were able to squeak by winning 2-1 and 1-0. Torts is playing run-and-gun with a team that can't score, and as a result we're losing games 5-2 or 4-1.
Last year we were complaining that the team was playing "not to lose" and the mantra going forward this year was "playing to win".

Neither worked.

Time to shoot the architect.

This team is ****ed.

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03-10-2010, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
I can't take Matt Gilroy anymore. I know people are gonna say he's a rookie but he just doesn't show me anything. Plus he's already 25 years old, this isn't a 19 year old kid like Del Zotto. MDZ does have lapses on D but I see the potential in him and what he's gonna become in the future. I juss don't see anything from Gilroy. He was supposed to be this dman that was going to help out on the powerplay, bring the puck up ice, go deep in the zone and act as a 4th forward etc etc. I haven't seen any of that since the preseason. He's not particularly good at anything on the offensive side of the puck and on defense he could be absolutely atrocious sometimes ranging from being soft on the body to being out of position.

Don't even get me started on Redden.
Dude it doesn't matter if he's 25, when you go from the NCAA to the NHL there will be an adaptation period. I am not ready to give up on him yet.

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03-10-2010, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I think part of the problem is Tort's system. He's trying to jam a square peg into a round hole with this roster by playing an aggressive offensive system. Renney got the most out his players defensively and we were able to squeak by winning 2-1 and 1-0. Torts is playing run-and-gun with a team that can't score, and as a result we're losing games 5-2 or 4-1.
Renney was able to cover the issues of the team better, sure. But I actually appreciate Torts NOT doing that because we can actually see what's wrong with the team.

I know that sounds backwards, but under Renney, we just thought they should score more. Under Torts, we realize that there are some problems offensively, but the defense is just God-awful.

Granted, Torts has less to work with, defensively, than Renney had but the defense is awful and has been awful for some time.

It has opened a lot of eyes.

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03-10-2010, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
I can't take Matt Gilroy anymore. I know people are gonna say he's a rookie but he just doesn't show me anything. Plus he's already 25 years old, this isn't a 19 year old kid like Del Zotto. MDZ does have lapses on D but I see the potential in him and what he's gonna become in the future. I juss don't see anything from Gilroy. He was supposed to be this dman that was going to help out on the powerplay, bring the puck up ice, go deep in the zone and act as a 4th forward etc etc. I haven't seen any of that since the preseason. He's not particularly good at anything on the offensive side of the puck and on defense he could be absolutely atrocious sometimes ranging from being soft on the body to being out of position.

Don't even get me started on Redden.
Hate to say it but i was waxing poetic about this before the season, we really needed to sign another NHL ready defenseman. This is the result.

But in all fairness, I gotta give Gilroy one more year before i give him the yank. But it isnt looking good thats for sure.

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03-10-2010, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
I can't take Matt Gilroy anymore. I know people are gonna say he's a rookie but he just doesn't show me anything. Plus he's already 25 years old, this isn't a 19 year old kid like Del Zotto. MDZ does have lapses on D but I see the potential in him and what he's gonna become in the future. I juss don't see anything from Gilroy. He was supposed to be this dman that was going to help out on the powerplay, bring the puck up ice, go deep in the zone and act as a 4th forward etc etc. I haven't seen any of that since the preseason. He's not particularly good at anything on the offensive side of the puck and on defense he could be absolutely atrocious sometimes ranging from being soft on the body to being out of position.

Don't even get me started on Redden.
Gilroy blows. He's got nothing offensively and is afraid of contact making him a ****** defender.

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03-10-2010, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
I can't take Matt Gilroy anymore. I know people are gonna say he's a rookie but he just doesn't show me anything. Plus he's already 25 years old, this isn't a 19 year old kid like Del Zotto. MDZ does have lapses on D but I see the potential in him and what he's gonna become in the future. I juss don't see anything from Gilroy. He was supposed to be this dman that was going to help out on the powerplay, bring the puck up ice, go deep in the zone and act as a 4th forward etc etc. I haven't seen any of that since the preseason. He's not particularly good at anything on the offensive side of the puck and on defense he could be absolutely atrocious sometimes ranging from being soft on the body to being out of position.

Don't even get me started on Redden.
I'm a huge critic of Gilroy, but I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here. He does deserve it.

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03-10-2010, 08:52 PM
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THANK YOU!

I've been saying this all year and others maintained that the offense was the "real" problem instead. The offense is an issue, but a having a good defense can also lead to good offensive opportunities, as seen by teams like the Red Wings in recent years.

It's great that we have good defensemen in the pipeline, but they will be going through growing pains once they enter the league. Will Del Zotto and Gilroy have progressed enough so that they can be relied on when these rookies struggle? We know that Redden will only get worse with age. I agree that the defense needs an overhaul, otherwise the Rangers will continue to have undependable veterans playing the same mistake-prone hockey as the younger defensemen.

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03-10-2010, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
Dude it doesn't matter if he's 25, when you go from the NCAA to the NHL there will be an adaptation period. I am not ready to give up on him yet.
Neither am I. While I've been diasppointed with him, especially lately, he definitely deserves another chance. Redden has to go. I'll probably end up getting bashed for this but Girardi needs to go as well.

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03-10-2010, 08:55 PM
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Neither am I. While I've been diasppointed with him, especially lately, he definitely deserves another chance. Redden has to go. I'll probably end up getting bashed for this but Girardi needs to go as well.
Why would you get bashed for it?

Girardi is terrible.

Anyone who thinks he isn't, does not know anything about hockey. End of story. The guy is absolutely clueless what to do when he has to make an actual decision for himself. Girardi should be waived.

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03-10-2010, 08:55 PM
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Neither am I. While I've been diasppointed with him, especially lately, he definitely deserves another chance. Redden has to go. I'll probably end up getting bashed for this but Girardi needs to go as well.
I've always liked Girardi, but hes simply not pulling his weight. Since Tyutins departure its been a steady decline. If someone gives you something of substance for him i think you have to take it for the sheer fact that you need to change things up on the blueline. Lets just hope its not someone else "change of scenery" guy.

Girardi's strength use to be his simple chip plays off the boards, short passes and he actually was one of the better defenseman at getting it to the net when things were going well. He also had the capability of having a shutdown night and against some pretty good players. All of that has gone away. Maybe the system has something to do with it, but I saw the decline starting before Torts took over. I dont know what happened to his game I really dont.

Maybe the forwards fly the zone too quickly for him and there isnt enough support for him to make those high percentage passes. But some of the other stuff i just cant explain.

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03-10-2010, 08:55 PM
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Neither am I. While I've been diasppointed with him, especially lately, he definitely deserves another chance. Redden has to go. I'll probably end up getting bashed for this but Girardi needs to go as well.
We need one just nasty ***** of a stay at home d-man. I don't care if the guy doesn't score a goal all season. I just want someone who can stay at home, not make stupid mistakes and destroy a few people here and there. Hal Gill comes to mind. Not that I want to sign Hal Gill...I don't. But a guy like that.

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03-10-2010, 08:56 PM
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Hate to say it but i was waxing poetic about this before the season, we really needed to sign another NHL ready defenseman. This is the result.

But in all fairness, I gotta give Gilroy one more year before i give him the yank. But it isnt looking good thats for sure.
I was waiting and waiting for Glen to trade/sign a veteran defenseman during the season, and it never happened, possibly due to cap constraints.

Having 2 rookie defensemen without a spare defenseman is absolute crazyness. I can't believe some were advocating that the Rangers start 3 rookie defenseman this season.

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03-10-2010, 08:56 PM
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Oh, we absolutely do. But the most pressing area is defense.

Girardi is just a joke of a player. As of right now, he is not NHL level. I don't know what happened to the guy during his development process. If anything, I really have to just write him off as a system player who fit Renney's system and nothing more. We were able to hide his problems under Renney, but he's so easily exploited under a more offensive system.

Tonight, on the 6th goal, he didn't even realize he had to move over. Del Zotto is pursuing the man to the opposite site. Girardi should be in the process of moving at least to the middle. He stood in place until Zajac was at the face-off circle, for God's sake!

I used to defend Redden. He had a decent end of the year last year and even a decent start this year. Where has his play gone? It's like he was inspired for a few months but then, bam. It's gone again.

Either way, we have a lot of issues, but defense (and defensive smarts being key) are the main ones.
Amen. You know this team is up ***** creek with only 2 legitimate defenders. These veterans (Girardi for instance) should be staples on the team so we don't constantly have to overhaul the roster. It's a shame that things have to keep changing because these guys can't keep playing at a level they demonstrated earlier.

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03-10-2010, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I've always liked Girardi, but hes simply not pulling his weight. Since Tyutins departure its been a steady decline. If someone gives you something of substance for him i think you have to take it for the sheer fact that you need to change things up on the blueline. Lets just hope its not someone else "change of scenery" guy.
I'll take anything for him. I would waive him, to be honest.

He's been that putrid.

He's our worst defender.

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03-10-2010, 08:56 PM
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Dude it doesn't matter if he's 25, when you go from the NCAA to the NHL there will be an adaptation period. I am not ready to give up on him yet.
I understand that they're was going to be growing pains but he hasn't shown me anything that would lead me to believe he's gonna be a really good dman. I had high hopes after what I saw from him in the preseason but that Matt Gilroy's just completely disappeared.

I'm probably being harsh but it's 67 games in and I can't say I've been impressed at all with him.

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03-10-2010, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
We've had a hole year of anemic offense. Guys who can't score even if with an open net and a point blank shot.

The offense can be an issue at times, but we've been able to win games with low offense in the past.

The problem with the team, this year, is defense. Wade Redden has managed to regress even further from last year. Dan Girardi has become one of the worst d-men in the league in his own zone. Matt Gilroy shows some decent thigns once in a while, but is usually a huge liability. Michael Del Zotto is a 19 year old offensive rookie and we're seeing the growing pains with him (though he's been better defensively than the previously mentioned players, which is sad).

The only guys we have who are good in their own end are Marc Staal and Michael Rozsival. You just cannot win with a defense as bad and pourous as ours really is. With all the hate Rozsival gets, he's at least a legitimate NHL d-man. We have 4 guys on this team who are anywhere from below average (Del Zotto) to putrid (Girardi and Redden) in their own zone. The guys don't know how to cover anyone, constantly make the wrong reads, and simply fail to actually defend.

People love to rip Torts for everything. Torts can't really make dreadful players that much better, unfortunately. The loss of Tyutin is a HUGE loss for the defense with nothing to show for it.

We need a complete overhaul on defense this coming offseason. Guys like Girardi and Redden are simply not NHL caliber players on defense anymore, while guys like Del Zotto and Gilroy are still growing and cannot be counted on. It'd be a lot easier to manage if we had a rock on defense who could bail out the rookies outside of Staal and Rozsival, but 2 guys can only do so much.

I'm sure people don't want to hear it, but drafting a strict hard hitting defensive defenseman in round 1 would be a huge step forward for the team in the offseason. Either that, or we need to make every push to secure one through free agency.

I'm not saying we don't need to upgrade our offense, because we do. But the true issue with the team is the defense.
too bad there's no one guy on D out there this july that will be able to lead the youth on the blue line (MDZ, sangs, gilroy, mcd/potter).

as a matter of fact, the only solution right now is to rely on them and have them suffer growing pains as shown tonight.

you hope a guy like staal will take over a leader role once he gets the experience himself.

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03-10-2010, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I was waiting and waiting for Glen to trade/sign a veteran defenseman during the season, and it never happened, possibly due to cap constraints.

Having 2 rookie defensemen without a spare defenseman is absolute crazyness. I can't believe some were advocating that the Rangers start 3 rookie defenseman this season.
That's because a lot of Rangers fans don't have a clue in how the game works. We have a lot of guys who follow the Rangers as their second or third teams in the overall scheme of NY sports. If you're remotely out of the loop, you tend to speak out of your ass. I would say probably 3/4 (and I think I'm giving a really high estimate -- probably like 9/10) people here haven't really played hockey at all.

It's always been like that with NY sports fans, though.

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