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The actual problem with this team is defense.

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Old
03-10-2010, 09:59 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers4ever2007 View Post
too bad there's no one guy on D out there this july that will be able to lead the youth on the blue line (MDZ, sangs, gilroy, mcd/potter).

as a matter of fact, the only solution right now is to rely on them and have them suffer growing pains as shown tonight.

you hope a guy like staal will take over a leader role once he gets the experience himself.
Just have to look into free agency or the draft.

If we could pick up one of the big 3 defenders, we'd be set for the next 15 years in terms of defense.

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Old
03-10-2010, 09:59 PM
  #27
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True, the defense on the backend is lacking, but we dont have the size/speed/skill on the wings to intimidate on both sides of the puck either, which would help greatly with this defense.

Sather has so many holes patched up and leaking, where to begin?

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03-10-2010, 10:00 PM
  #28
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No one and i mean NO ONE on this teams defense gets the puck to the net. Its always blocked or shot wide, or directly into the glove or chest of the goalie when they finally get one through. That is a MAJOR problem on this team.

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03-10-2010, 10:01 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
True, the defense on the backend is lacking, but we dont have the size/speed/skill on the wings to intimidate on both sides of the puck either, which would help greatly with this defense.

Sather has so many holes patched up and leaking, where to begin?
Like I said, I do agree that we need some new forwards, but a complete and utter overhaul is not really needed. We can compete game in, game out with our forward crew for the most part.

But even on a night were Brodeur is shakey and we score 3, the defense just leaves the team out to dry.

I would say we have the worst defense in the entire league (personel wise), top to bottom, right now. It's that bad.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:01 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
No one and i mean NO ONE on this teams defense gets the puck to the net. Its always blocked or shot wide, or directly into the glove or chest of the goalie when they finally get one through. That is a MAJOR problem on this team.
I disagree. Del Zotto gets a lot of shots on net, but he's 19 and still doesn't have it all down. Other than him, though, I'd agree.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:01 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Renney was able to cover the issues of the team better, sure. But I actually appreciate Torts NOT doing that because we can actually see what's wrong with the team.

I know that sounds backwards, but under Renney, we just thought they should score more. Under Torts, we realize that there are some problems offensively, but the defense is just God-awful.

Granted, Torts has less to work with, defensively, than Renney had but the defense is awful and has been awful for some time.

It has opened a lot of eyes.
I know what you're trying to get at but you're not wording it perfectly.

Renney's system didn't solve any long term defensive issues; it simply masked the lack of ability on the blue line well enough to crawl into the playoffs. However, no system was going to make those groups Cup-contending caliber.

Tortorella's style exposes the defense for what it is; a pile of crap with a bit of Marc Staal sprinkled in.

The defense needs a massive overhaul. The fact that Rozsival has been our second best defenseman in the defensive end is much more a testament to how inexperienced DZ and Gilroy are and how brutal Girardi and Redden have been. I disagree that Girardi isn't an NHL defenseman at all but there is little doubt that he is not a good suit for Tortorella's system. He's a Renney type defenseman; not a Tortorella. Last year the problem with Redden was that he didn't come close to living up to his contract, but this year it's been beyond the contract. If he was making 1 million dollars I'd still heavily ridicule his play. I honestly don't think he's an NHL caliber defenseman anymore. He's irrelevant offensively, and his physical abilities have severely regressed and he lacks the hockey mind to compensate for that. He gets burned all over the place and has to resort to hooking and slashing.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:02 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Time to shoot the architect.

This team is ****ed.
Hah. Yes. When a coach has to be the equivalent of a BRAIN SURGEON, it means he is not at fault.

It means he has been expected to be a miracle worker.
I don't understand the angle that Tortorella is failing.

Red Herring.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:02 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I was waiting and waiting for Glen to trade/sign a veteran defenseman during the season, and it never happened, possibly due to cap constraints.

Having 2 rookie defensemen without a spare defenseman is absolute crazyness. I can't believe some were advocating that the Rangers start 3 rookie defenseman this season.
While I don't think it's the best idea to have 2 rookies on defense every night, the real problem is that the veterans who are supposed to be there when Gilroy and Del Zotto inevitably screw up also suck. If we had 2 other competent defencemen instead of Girardi and Redden it wouldn't be such an issue.

But, obviously, Sather knew that going into the season, or he should have, so yeah, it wasn't a great decision.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:02 PM
  #34
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Volchenkov is free but would you all pay the dude Rangers Kaspar money to come here? I don't know if that's such a good idea.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Like I said, I do agree that we need some new forwards, but a complete and utter overhaul is not really needed. We can compete game in, game out with our forward crew for the most part.

But even on a night were Brodeur is shakey and we score 3, the defense just leaves the team out to dry.

I would say we have the worst defense in the entire league (personel wise), top to bottom, right now. It's that bad.
They would probably be better off putting Redden behind Lundqvist and have him stand there as the second goalie. It would force Lundqvist to play further out and it would prevent all the deflection goals and Redden would actually be worth something to this team.

Problem solved.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:02 PM
  #36
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The first 15 games I believe we saw what Torts wanted out of the players in an agressive offensive style... but then with all the odd man rushes we gave up, Torts instilled more of a defensive system than beforehand and since then, we've been right in between.

We can't decide whether we want to be aggressive or play defense, so everything falls on Henriks shoulders. IMHO Torts has lost much control of this team.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:03 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
I know what you're trying to get at but you're not wording it perfectly.

Renney's system didn't solve any long term defensive issues; it simply masked the lack of ability on the blue line well enough to crawl into the playoffs. However, no system was going to make those groups Cup-contending caliber.

Tortorella's style exposes the defense for what it is; a pile of crap with a bit of Marc Staal sprinkled in.

The defense needs a massive overhaul. The fact that Rozsival has been our second best defenseman in the defensive end is much more a testament to how inexperienced DZ and Gilroy are and how brutal Girardi and Redden have been. I disagree that Girardi isn't an NHL defenseman at all but there is little doubt that he is not a good suit for Tortorella's system. He's a Renney type defenseman; not a Tortorella. Last year the problem with Redden was that he didn't come close to living up to his contract, but this year it's been beyond the contract. If he was making 1 million dollars I'd still heavily ridicule his play. I honestly don't think he's an NHL caliber defenseman anymore. He's irrelevant offensively, and his physical abilities have severely regressed and he lacks the hockey mind to compensate for that. He gets burned all over the place and has to resort to hooking and slashing.
Redden has honestly been so slow and so terrible that he actually misses hooks and slashes. And yes, I've actually noticed that. He TRIES to hook and slash but his reaction time has just evaporated completely. It'd be funny if he was on a different team. But it's infuriating and pathetic with him on the Rangers.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:03 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I disagree. Del Zotto gets a lot of shots on net, but he's 19 and still doesn't have it all down. Other than him, though, I'd agree.
I was going to say with exception of DZ, but i said what the hell lets lay it on.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:04 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Why would you get bashed for it?

Girardi is terrible.

Anyone who thinks he isn't, does not know anything about hockey. End of story. The guy is absolutely clueless what to do when he has to make an actual decision for himself. Girardi should be waived.

He has fanboys on here. People will be quick to point out he leads all our D-men in hits and blocked shots.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:04 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
They would probably be better off putting Redden behind Lundqvist and have him stand there as the second goalie. It would force Lundqvist to play further out and it would prevent all the deflection goals and Redden would actually be worth something to this team.

Problem solved.
We don't play that bad down a man, either. Just keep Callahan and Drury out there all game while rotating in Gaborik for either of them.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:05 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko View Post
He has fanboys on here. People will be quick to point out he leads all our D-men in hits and blocked shots.
I just ignore his fanboys. We have/had Marcel Hossa and Lisin fanboys as well.

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03-10-2010, 10:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
We don't play that bad down a man, either. Just keep Callahan and Drury out there all game while rotating in Gaborik for either of them.
We've done it!!!!

We've solved the riddle!!!

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:05 PM
  #43
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It took Torts a few years to get Tampa to play his system not to mention some having some fully developed elite talent and moves that Jay Feaster moved that worked out (Khabby, St. Louis, Richards and Boyle as non first rounders that developed).

They were awful his first two years.

The problem is that was in Tampa which is a laid back casual hockey market. Are they really going to wait 3-4 years for Torts's stuff to work in NY? Doubtful.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:05 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
We've done it!!!!

We've solved the riddle!!!
Get Slats a cigar made of cash and let him know.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:06 PM
  #45
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If the rangers had a good defense unit they would be a playoff team with there elite goaltender.

Gilroy is awful in the defensive zone he is a soft player. He reminds me of a smaller version of Tom Poti. Gilroy is suppose to be an offensive defensemen but he is not very good offensively. He has a scott gomez shot, he doesn't look good running the powerplay and he is not a great passer I dont see great vision from him. All he can do is skate which is the reason they signed him because they thought he could fit Torts system.

Hopefully they trade Gilroy and give his spot to Sanguinetti next year who has much more upside.


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Old
03-10-2010, 10:06 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I just ignore his fanboys. We have/had Marcel Hossa and Lisin fanboys as well.
So who is the better player? Marcel or Lisin?

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:06 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
It took Torts a few years to get Tampa to play his system not to mention some having some fully developed elite talent and moves that Jay Feaster moved that worked out (Khabby, St. Louis, Richards and Boyle as non first rounders that developed).

They were awful his first two years.

The problem is that was in Tampa which is a laid back casual hockey market. Are they really going to wait 3-4 years for Torts's stuff to work in NY? Doubtful.
I would wait for years for a Cup. Yes.

The problem is the Rangers fanbase is probably 70% morons.

So you are correct in that it's unlikely they'd put up with 4 years of suck.

****, I might actually kill myself if I had to deal with this for 3 more years, now that I think of it...

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:07 PM
  #48
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So who is the better player? Marcel or Lisin?
In all honesty? Marcel Hossa.

He was the best puck protecting guy we've had in ages, outside of Jagr.

Granted, ask him to do anything WITH the puck and he dies on the ice.

Was at least a solid defensive player as well and was servicable on the PK and 4th line.

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:08 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I would wait for years for a Cup. Yes.

The problem is the Rangers fanbase is probably 70% morons.

So you are correct in that it's unlikely they'd put up with 4 years of suck.

****, I might actually kill myself if I had to deal with this for 3 more years, now that I think of it...
true. lol

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Old
03-10-2010, 10:09 PM
  #50
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As tremendous as the problems on defense are, and they are immense, they still don't overshadow the lack of talent and skill up front. We've got one of the worst groups of forwards in the league and one of the worst groups of blueliners, as well. It's really not much to be proud of.

I agree, though. Girardi is a joke of a player, and Redden obviously is simply worthless. I think Gilroy needs A LOT of work, and frankly, Del Zotto's defensive game does, as well.

I'm not even going to bring up Rozsival.

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