HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

The actual problem with this team is defense.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-10-2010, 09:30 PM
  #76
chip chipperson*
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 2,033
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
We've had a hole year of anemic offense. Guys who can't score even if with an open net and a point blank shot.

The offense can be an issue at times, but we've been able to win games with low offense in the past.

The problem with the team, this year, is defense. Wade Redden has managed to regress even further from last year. Dan Girardi has become one of the worst d-men in the league in his own zone. Matt Gilroy shows some decent thigns once in a while, but is usually a huge liability. Michael Del Zotto is a 19 year old offensive rookie and we're seeing the growing pains with him (though he's been better defensively than the previously mentioned players, which is sad).

The only guys we have who are good in their own end are Marc Staal and Michael Rozsival. You just cannot win with a defense as bad and pourous as ours really is. With all the hate Rozsival gets, he's at least a legitimate NHL d-man. We have 4 guys on this team who are anywhere from below average (Del Zotto) to putrid (Girardi and Redden) in their own zone. The guys don't know how to cover anyone, constantly make the wrong reads, and simply fail to actually defend.

People love to rip Torts for everything. Torts can't really make dreadful players that much better, unfortunately. The loss of Tyutin is a HUGE loss for the defense with nothing to show for it.

We need a complete overhaul on defense this coming offseason. Guys like Girardi and Redden are simply not NHL caliber players on defense anymore, while guys like Del Zotto and Gilroy are still growing and cannot be counted on. It'd be a lot easier to manage if we had a rock on defense who could bail out the rookies outside of Staal and Rozsival, but 2 guys can only do so much.

I'm sure people don't want to hear it, but drafting a strict hard hitting defensive defenseman in round 1 would be a huge step forward for the team in the offseason. Either that, or we need to make every push to secure one through free agency. I'm not saying we don't need to upgrade our offense, because we do. But the true issue with the team is the defense.
that guy is supposed to be staal. even our best dman needs to be much better imo.

if i was henrik i would want a trade. unless the impossible happens this is going to be the same team for at least 2 more years. offense might get better but the d is so bad and inexpierenced. what a mess

chip chipperson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:31 PM
  #77
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Are you making that assumption on skill or as the unit as a whole?

Are you saying that other forward units are more desirable because they have more natural talent and skill or because they fit better together in the system they play in?
I'm saying, all rooting interest aside, which group of 12 (or 13, if you will) forwards would I rather have. No system. Just which 12 players would you rather have. Which 12 players would you rather have, no matter what kind of system you're playing.

Systems are important, but having great players is more important. The best players work in ANY system.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:32 PM
  #78
Pugs35
Registered User
 
Pugs35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,050
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Frolov...meh. I can't get it out of my head that he would be kinda like Gomez.

Girardi for Sharp...ok I like it.

Olli should go. He was acquired in a salary dump and I would much rather have the cap room.

McD, Kundratek won't be ready at all. Sangs or Potter should be on the team. The only problem is that if you dump Redden and Girardi you have no real veteran d-man besides Staal and Rozy.

Weise I would like to see get a chance on the fourth line.
Yeah, and even if we trade Girardi and bury Redden in Hartford to open up a spot for Sanguinetti, you're still looking at 3 pretty raw d-men. Even if you sign freaking Nick Lidstrom after that, it's still going to be rough

Pugs35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:32 PM
  #79
darko
Registered User
 
darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Country: Australia
Posts: 29,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
On D I like how Rozsival has played but they simply have to move that contract and I don't think it's fair but Redden has to go to Hartford.
Rozsival has played OK but he is declining and overpaid so we need to move him on. IMO I reckon he stays. Why? I'm guessing we move Girardi and bury Redden, we would be going with 2 rookies on D again next season. Unless we sign someone liek Volchenkov off course.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Upfront what can you say. Gaborik is awesome but after that they don't have first line talent. They have to get a guy like Plekanac. Prospal is a good cheap option.

No thanks on Plekanec. Oh and Marleau for that matter. I'll for for bringing Vinnie back for cheap on a 1 or 2 year deal.

darko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:33 PM
  #80
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
I will say that I think it would be a very, very smart move to find a way to draft Tinordi. Obviously not with our own first, the way things are looking right now, but it would be very nice to acquire a late first and pick him up.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:33 PM
  #81
EventHorizon
Bring Back Ties!
 
EventHorizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Budd Lake, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 3,897
vCash: 500
The unfortunate thing about Girardi is that he had trade value not so long ago. Now you'd be lucky to get a bag of potato chips and a Rubik's Cube with half the stickers missing for him.

EventHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:33 PM
  #82
Cherepanisimov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 500
I agree that the defense needs to be completely revamped.

We don't have a single defenseman that can consistently put up numbers and play solid defense. For a "playoff" team, its just embarrassing.

We need a player like that, or we are going absolutely nowhere. The bad news is that those players aren't very common. Martin is the only free agent this year that even comes close to that. If we draft high enough, Fowler or Gudbrandson could be that guy. I really don't give a **** who it is, as long as we get one, because we desperately need one.


What I think needs to be done: (Some have already been beaten to death here)

-I could see Girardi traded in the offseason, especially if he is looking for a raise. Maybe for an equally struggling forward.
-Redden needs to be buried in Hartford, and at this point, that isn't too far-fetched of an option.
-If one of Sanguinetti and McDonagh is going to make this team next year, Gilroy has got to go. I like him, he is a great player and has big potential, but we as an organization don't have the patience to wait around for a 25-26 year oldrookie defenseman find his stride. He is currently not good defensively, offensively, and is blocking our prospects. We could probably get a late 2nd or 3rd for him at the draft, or maybe a prospect.
-Rozsival has been good for us, and a warrior at times, but I really believe it is best if Rozsival leaves the Rangers. I don't really mind either way.

Next year, hopefully:

Staal-(Martin?, Fowler?, etc.)
MDZ-?
Sangs/McDonagh-(Rozsival, Morris, Seidenburg?)

Still not ideal, but a step in the right direction.

Cherepanisimov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:35 PM
  #83
White Plains Batman
Faceoffs? Faceoffs!!
 
White Plains Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,601
vCash: 500
Grach isn't ready, let's not rush him. Look what happened to LA when they brought Lokitonov up too early, he got hurt and overwhelmed.

I want to see Sangs on this team and he's no wuss, but they need a real crease clearer or defensive Dman already.

If they can get Nino or Kabanov maybe one of those guys will turn into a 30 goal scorer and everyone else improves a little.

White Plains Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:35 PM
  #84
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 11,754
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EventHorizon View Post
The unfortunate thing about Girardi is that he had trade value not so long ago. Now you'd be lucky to get a bag of potato chips and a Rubik's Cube with half the stickers missing for him.
As long as the potato chips don't count against the cap, I take that deal and run.

NYRFAN218 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:35 PM
  #85
hlundqvist30*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I will say that I think it would be a very, very smart move to find a way to draft Tinordi. Obviously not with our own first, the way things are looking right now, but it would be very nice to acquire a late first and pick him up.
Agreed. Drafting Beukeboom in the 2nd or 3rd round would be a good alternative to that.

hlundqvist30* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:38 PM
  #86
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
that guy is supposed to be staal. even our best dman needs to be much better imo.

if i was henrik i would want a trade. unless the impossible happens this is going to be the same team for at least 2 more years. offense might get better but the d is so bad and inexpierenced. what a mess
That's not Staals game, he's a steady Dman that takes the play away from opponents but he's not a huge hitter. Yet.

Think Brooks Orpik, someone that consistently initiates hard hits.

I think Henrik is a winner, and a winner might stick around through hard times. That more gratifying when they do win

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:38 PM
  #87
Glen Teflon Sather
Like A Boss
 
Glen Teflon Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,842
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Glen Teflon Sather
Hard to disagree just look at the Devils core of d-men without Martin mostly too, and they have the fewest goals allowed. Sure Brodeur deserves credit but he's not having a Vezina caliber year imo, he's been good but not great. Ugh, this team is just a mess period, poor offense, poor defense, a coach who can't push the right buttons. Am I a bad fan for wanting them to keep losing for a better pick?

Glen Teflon Sather is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:40 PM
  #88
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
Yeah, and even if we trade Girardi and bury Redden in Hartford to open up a spot for Sanguinetti, you're still looking at 3 pretty raw d-men. Even if you sign freaking Nick Lidstrom after that, it's still going to be rough
This is one of those examples where I think once again, the Rangers didn't really have a plan.

You have 3 young defensemen who are ready to enter the league at the same time. I think Sangs is NHL-ready and would have played on the team this year if we didn't already have 2 rookie defensemen.

But how are you going to be competitive with 3 rookies on D? Might as well fully commit to rebuilding then, because it's going to be awfully hard to be a successful team when your defense is that young and your veterans are unreliable.

OverTheCap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:42 PM
  #89
dtrap
Registered User
 
dtrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,720
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to dtrap
Just a general statement because I don't feel like quoting everyone.

Please stop thinking McD is going to be on the team next year. I'm pretty sure I have read a couple of places that he will need a year in Hartford.

You want to know what McD would look like in the NHL next year? Look at Gilroy...only even more overwhelmed. The kid needs a year, maybe two, in the AHL to get used to the pro game. That's what Gilroy needed but didn't get.

dtrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:45 PM
  #90
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
This is one of those examples where I think once again, the Rangers didn't really have a plan.

You have 3 young defensemen who are ready to enter the league at the same time. I think Sangs is NHL-ready and would have played on the team this year if we didn't already have 2 rookie defensemen.

But how are you going to be competitive with 3 rookies on D? Might as well fully commit to rebuilding then, because it's going to be awfully hard to be a successful team when your defense is that young and your veterans are unreliable.
Sather. He banked on Semenov making the team and signing a deal. Once Semenov spurned him what were his options? He already gave himself no room with the cap so a trade for a vet was unlikely. Then what? Sign Chelios? Yikes.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:46 PM
  #91
js10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 644
vCash: 500
I stopped watching Rangers on Sunday loss against Buffalo. I just lost my patience. That is it.. Life is too short to spend it watching them play and then feel miserable. I heal it with Hawks and Habs (blasphemy!!!)

js10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:47 PM
  #92
Axxion89
Registered User
 
Axxion89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 310
vCash: 500
My plan for the Defense:

Rosival - Keep him, his cap hit comes down next season and the guy does his job, not his fault Sather overpaid the guy

MDZ - Gonna be a great player, teach him to make some better defensive plays but he's a rookie

Girardi - Trade while he still has SOME value

Staal - No brainer, he stays

Redden - Demote to Hartford for the love of all things holy, such a waste

Gilroy - Meh gets another chance but if he wasn't brought back its ok

I'd sign Volchenkov and either a cheap defensive d-man or another Rookie (McD) because I think Sanguinetti is the last drafted player in the era of Sather's worst draft choices (I think the kids gonna be a bust)

Honestly though, Tortorella either has to adapt his coaching style to fit this team or get out because our defense can't play aggressive and Lundqvist can't stand on his head every game. This team lacks an identity and untill we get one, we have NO CHANCE at the cup anytime soon.

Axxion89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:51 PM
  #93
trilobyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Alberta
Posts: 12,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers32185 View Post
Hard to disagree just look at the Devils core of d-men without Martin mostly too, and they have the fewest goals allowed. Sure Brodeur deserves credit but he's not having a Vezina caliber year imo, he's been good but not great. Ugh, this team is just a mess period, poor offense, poor defense, a coach who can't push the right buttons. Am I a bad fan for wanting them to keep losing for a better pick?
But, look at the jump the Devils players have. They don't give 3 or four feet of free space to their opponents. I watched their forwards crowd the Rangers defense tonight. They weren't being reckless or over-committing, they just played a well practiced pressure game where they knew their effort would have a chance of being rewarded. Force a quick blind pass, make the guy panic, whatever. I thought the game was pretty crappy overall, but the Devils at least look competent.

Meanwhile, the Rangers defense gives lots of room to attackers, because they don't have the confidence to attack them. What a treat for the opposition forwards, time to think, they get second chances and more options.

trilobyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:52 PM
  #94
dtrap
Registered User
 
dtrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,720
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to dtrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion89 View Post
My plan for the Defense:

Rosival - Keep him, his cap hit comes down next season and the guy does his job, not his fault Sather overpaid the guy

MDZ - Gonna be a great player, teach him to make some better defensive plays but he's a rookie

Girardi - Trade while he still has SOME value

Staal - No brainer, he stays

Redden - Demote to Hartford for the love of all things holy, such a waste

Gilroy - Meh gets another chance but if he wasn't brought back its ok

I'd sign Volchenkov and either a cheap defensive d-man or another Rookie (McD) because I think Sanguinetti is the last drafted player in the era of Sather's worst draft choices (I think the kids gonna be a bust)

Honestly though, Tortorella either has to adapt his coaching style to fit this team or get out because our defense can't play aggressive and Lundqvist can't stand on his head every game. This team lacks an identity and untill we get one, we have NO CHANCE at the cup anytime soon.
What does this even mean if you don't mind. Saying that is the end of an era is lumping Staal, Dubi, Cally and the like into that era.

dtrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:54 PM
  #95
hlundqvist30*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Just a general statement because I don't feel like quoting everyone.

Please stop thinking McD is going to be on the team next year. I'm pretty sure I have read a couple of places that he will need a year in Hartford.

You want to know what McD would look like in the NHL next year? Look at Gilroy...only even more overwhelmed. The kid needs a year, maybe two, in the AHL to get used to the pro game. That's what Gilroy needed but didn't get.
Completely different circumstances. McDonagh is much more steady and safer.

Just because Gilroy might have needed time in the AHL doesn't mean it works that way for all NCAA defensemen. Jordan Leopold made the transition from college to the NHL perfectly fine. So did JM Liles. So did Gary Suter. So did Rob Blake. I could keep going.

hlundqvist30* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 09:57 PM
  #96
ReggieDunlop68
Hey Hanrahan!
 
ReggieDunlop68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 708
vCash: 500
It's not defense. I'ts everything, and this organization is showing no signs of changing. Signing another FA will not do a damn thing. There needs to be a top down change, and thats not going to happen either.

It is likely none of us will see a cup in our lifetimes.

After tonight's game, I am being dead serious when I say this that I feel like a real sucker and an idiot for spending so much money and investing so much time in this team. I have been angry at the organization before, but I never felt this feeling about the team before. Guess I will just go and buy another soda for $4.25.

ReggieDunlop68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 10:00 PM
  #97
NYRFAN218
Mac Truck
 
NYRFAN218's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 11,754
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion89 View Post
My plan for the Defense:

Rosival - Keep him, his cap hit comes down next season and the guy does his job, not his fault Sather overpaid the guy

MDZ - Gonna be a great player, teach him to make some better defensive plays but he's a rookie

Girardi - Trade while he still has SOME value

Staal - No brainer, he stays

Redden - Demote to Hartford for the love of all things holy, such a waste

Gilroy - Meh gets another chance but if he wasn't brought back its ok

I'd sign Volchenkov and either a cheap defensive d-man or another Rookie (McD) because I think Sanguinetti is the last drafted player in the era of Sather's worst draft choices (I think the kids gonna be a bust)

Honestly though, Tortorella either has to adapt his coaching style to fit this team or get out because our defense can't play aggressive and Lundqvist can't stand on his head every game. This team lacks an identity and untill we get one, we have NO CHANCE at the cup anytime soon.
Only his salary comes down after the season, cap hit doesn't change during the contract. It's still going to be a 5 million cap hit.

NYRFAN218 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 10:04 PM
  #98
White Plains Batman
Faceoffs? Faceoffs!!
 
White Plains Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,601
vCash: 500
Brock Beukeboom isn't a bruiser like his dad, he's an offensive minded Dman and they say his upside is as a decent 2nd pairing Dman.

Funny too that Jeff Beuk coaches Maggio who is a big kid but not a bruiser either.

And then there's Mark Tinordi's kid who is already 6 ft 5 ad hits....

White Plains Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 10:06 PM
  #99
dtrap
Registered User
 
dtrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,720
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to dtrap
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Completely different circumstances. McDonagh is much more steady and safer.

Just because Gilroy might have needed time in the AHL doesn't mean it works that way for all NCAA defensemen. Jordan Leopold made the transition from college to the NHL perfectly fine. So did JM Liles. So did Gary Suter. So did Rob Blake. I could keep going.
Yeah and all of those guys were thought to be sure things by the teams that had them at the time.

Hate to be a downer because I hope the kid turns out great, but McD got traded for a reason. As much as everyone wants to think Sather truly ripped off Gainey, McD had fallen out of favor with the Habs leadership. HF's prospect report even said that if I remember correctly.

Also, do you watch every Wisconsin game? Do you watch McD every single night? I am not trying to start ****, I just want to know how you "know" that he is more steady and safer than the reining Hobey Baker winner...

dtrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-10-2010, 10:06 PM
  #100
KreiMeARiver
Have Confidence
 
KreiMeARiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Southern Oracle
Posts: 6,463
vCash: 500
The title of this thread should be:

The real problem with this team is the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION.

KreiMeARiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.