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Old
03-14-2010, 12:02 PM
  #51
kyle evs48
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Yup...During the 1995 playoffs everyone of our opponets said the same thing..

Boston said you don't have any forwards as good as Neeley and Oates or a defensemen as good as Bourque

Pittsburgh said Jagr is the best player in the League and we didn't have a single forward as good Ron Francis or Luc Robitaille.

Flyers had the best line the League, The Legion of Doom. We counldn't contend with that. Lindros was shaping up to be the next Mark Messier and would win Hart trophy in the following season.

And then there was Detriot. The "Most talented team in the League" How could the Devils possibly beat a team with Fedorov, Yzerman, Coffey, Ciccarelli, Primeau and Fetisov???

Balance! 4 lines that could be out there with anyone's best line at anytime. Not the best players in the league but good top to bottom. Any player could and did win an individual game


Who would want a Claude Lemieux and Neal Broten over a Steve Yzerman and Sergie Fedorov right??? Anyone who would want a Shawn Chambers over a Paul Coffey simply doesn't understand the game????

The team is greater than just indiviuals, always has been.
You know you're going to get a bunch of arguments.

1. No cap back then
2. Different game
3. Blah blah blah

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03-14-2010, 12:04 PM
  #52
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Gionta can suck one. He blows.

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03-14-2010, 12:09 PM
  #53
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Don't quit Jim please. Thanks

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Old
03-14-2010, 12:18 PM
  #54
JimEIV
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Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
You know you're going to get a bunch of arguments.

1. No cap back then
2. Different game
3. Blah blah blah
Well, I really think that team in 1995 was a PERFECT cap era team.

Those devils teams were always in the middle of the league in spending, they didn't start spending big until later half of the decade.

Different game sure, but building a team is a concept that really doesn't change. Regardless of the rules you still need multiple people to perform different roles.

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03-14-2010, 12:21 PM
  #55
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it is possible for this team to have both kovy and this balanced team you want jim.

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03-14-2010, 12:21 PM
  #56
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it is possible for this team to have both kovy and this balanced team you want jim.
If that is the case I'm down with it.

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03-14-2010, 12:51 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
I really have no issue with him....I enjoy watching him. I love his interviews and think he says all the right things.

I only have one issue; I don't think he really addresses any of our teams current needs.

I've always been a big believer that it is better to have two quality players at the same price as 1 marque player...In other words it is better to have two 25 goal scorers @ 7 Million than one 50 goal scorer at 7 Million. And it has never been more true than in this cap era.

I think if we were to resign Kovalchuk, our real needs will go unanswered and we will have to continue to ice a mix-matched bunch of forwards and work under even greater financial restraints.
I generally agree with that mentality Jim, but I would still pay up to $8M for Kovy for a number of reasons. Players like him don't come around often. You might not think that now, but we still haven't seen him play up to his full potential. Re-signing Zach and him long term would be best for our immediate and distant future. Patty is going to turn 34 next month, Jamie will be 35 this summer. I think we can still get 3-4 solid years out of both. But if they decide to retire or their play drops off after that, we'll still have Parise and Kovy in their prime to help usher in the next generation of Devils.

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:21 PM
  #58
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Why do people bring up the 1995 team?

Those 4 lines were really backed up by an all star defense that was given to us by high draft picks & a judge, not to mention a young HOF goalie who happened to fall on our lap.

We're never going to have a judge award us a franchise defenseman, a gift pick of a trade for #1 that gives us yet another franchise defenseman and a Top #18 pick that gives us a solid stay at home defenseman that goes on to play for 20 years.

There should be no comparison to what happened to us in the early 1990's vs. what is happening now. No defenseman that was available at this deadline would get us close to the caliber of our 1995 defense and would tip the balance right now to really improve our PP.

We are playing off our strengths right now in 2010 (forwards) and what is the best available player at the time (#1st overall pick/50 goal scoring, game-breaker)

If Kovalchuk doesn't improve our PP, then nobody will.

Oh, probably both Pronger & Niedermayer will, too bad Lou missed out on acquiring them. He's lost it!

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03-14-2010, 01:32 PM
  #59
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All our cup teams went with the balanced forwards, but you can't forget that we had some of the biggest stars in the game on defense and in goal. You need the top talent to win. Jim apparently believes that it doesn't help to have it at forward. I disagree - I just think you need it period. You need difference makers in the lineup. Zach Parise is a difference maker. Ilya Kovalchuk is a difference maker. They're guys who change the game when they're on the ice. You do need that to win it all.

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:41 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Uber View Post
I generally agree with that mentality Jim, but I would still pay up to $8M for Kovy for a number of reasons. Players like him don't come around often. You might not think that now, but we still haven't seen him play up to his full potential. Re-signing Zach and him long term would be best for our immediate and distant future. Patty is going to turn 34 next month, Jamie will be 35 this summer. I think we can still get 3-4 solid years out of both. But if they decide to retire or their play drops off after that, we'll still have Parise and Kovy in their prime to help usher in the next generation of Devils.
I don't see the math working though.

You have Elias under contract @ 6 for the next 3 years, you have Rolston under contrat @ 5 for the next 2 years and Parise is in for a significant raise after next season.


Clarkson is due a raise at the end of this season. You need to sign Martin. You'll need to sign or replace 2 UFA defensemen at the end of this season. You'll need to sign or replace our 3rd and 4th line UFA centers (Niedermayer and McAmmond) at the end of this season. You'll need to sign or replace a UFA backup goalie at the end of this season.

And before we do any of this we have already outlayed 42 Million in salary for next season for 10 forwards, 4 defensemen and 1 goalie.

So 8M for Kovalchuk would leave around 7M for the rest of the team this summer.

It doesn't work.

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:50 PM
  #61
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It didnt hurt having one of the biggest defensive stars ever to play this game in 1995, 00 and 03 as well.



Any reason to post this, and I will.

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Old
03-14-2010, 01:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by åboriginal View Post
i really dont get this fascination with the rangers on here. all fans outside of islanders and devils seem to think the rags are the center of the universe, they can easily sign anyone they want, everyone wants to play there and the endless bag of popcorn cash cash sign any checks no matter what the cap situation.

oh and im not raggin on u for ur dream mr severiiaeion. its just that the rags mentality drive me nuts.
i agree with you. i never chant rangers suck except against the rangers. the only reason i posted that was because i actually had that dream.

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03-14-2010, 01:58 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
I don't see the math working though.

You have Elias under contract @ 6 for the next 3 years, you have Rolston under contrat @ 5 for the next 2 years and Parise is in for a significant raise after next season.


Clarkson is due a raise at the end of this season. You need to sign Martin. You'll need to sign or replace 2 UFA defensemen at the end of this season. You'll need to sign or replace our 3rd and 4th line UFA centers (Niedermayer and McAmmond) at the end of this season. You'll need to sign or replace a UFA backup goalie at the end of this season.

And before we do any of this we have already outlayed 42 Million in salary for next season for 10 forwards, 4 defensemen and 1 goalie.

So 8M for Kovalchuk would leave around 7M for the rest of the team this summer.

It doesn't work.
I've explained before how we can make it work without moving Rolston (which is going to be damn near impossible) and still have enough room to re-sign Zach the following season. In short, Pandolfo and either White or Salvador have to go. I understand losing one of them would be a big blow to our already terrible D, but they're expendable. Corrente and Eckford have spent two years in the AHL, Urbom had a very strong training camp, Taormina has come in out of nowhere. I'm willing to take a chance and let one of them go.

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03-14-2010, 01:58 PM
  #64
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The Rags can easily sign anyone they want because they overpay so much for every FA that it'd be impossible to pass up the offer (unless they are actually in search of the prize that matters most at the end of the season).

Lou will do whatever he can to re-sign Kovy. Some garbage will have to be dealt with, but it's certainly possible.

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03-14-2010, 02:08 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Das Uber View Post
I've explained before how we can make it work without moving Rolston (which is going to be damn near impossible) and still have enough room to re-sign Zach the following season. In short, Pandolfo and either White or Salvador have to go. I understand losing one of them would be a big blow to our already terrible D, but they're expendable. Corrente and Eckford have spent two years in the AHL, Urbom had a very strong training camp, Taormina has come in out of nowhere. I'm willing to take a chance and let one of them go.
Losing White would not be a big blow. They could easily replace him..I even prefer Skoula to White.

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03-14-2010, 02:09 PM
  #66
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Why do people bring up the 1995 team?
I think you are missing my point. The point is; What is the proper formula for building a championship team.

Adding Stars to a weak core of players never works.

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03-14-2010, 02:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
I don't see the math working though.

You have Elias under contract @ 6 for the next 3 years, you have Rolston under contrat @ 5 for the next 2 years and Parise is in for a significant raise after next season.


Clarkson is due a raise at the end of this season. You need to sign Martin. You'll need to sign or replace 2 UFA defensemen at the end of this season. You'll need to sign or replace our 3rd and 4th line UFA centers (Niedermayer and McAmmond) at the end of this season. You'll need to sign or replace a UFA backup goalie at the end of this season.

And before we do any of this we have already outlayed 42 Million in salary for next season for 10 forwards, 4 defensemen and 1 goalie.

So 8M for Kovalchuk would leave around 7M for the rest of the team this summer.

It doesn't work.
Lou maneuvered the roster when they needed to resign Gionta after his 48 goal year. He also managed to sign Parise to that ridiculously cheap deal the same year. How did he manage it? He gave up our first and that Malakhov ******* to San Jose.

What on earth makes you think he wouldn't do the same for Kovalchuk?

Are you saying that Gionta is superior to Kovalchuk?

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Old
03-14-2010, 02:29 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
I think you are missing my point. The point is; What is the proper formula for building a championship team.

Adding Stars to a weak core of players never works.
Ahem.


I give you, your 2009 Stanley Cup Champions, the Pittsburgh Penguins.

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Old
03-14-2010, 02:31 PM
  #69
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Losing White would not be a big blow. They could easily replace him..I even prefer Skoula to White.
You won't miss White until he's gone. That's what happened two seasons ago. Before he got hurt, everyone said he sucked. When he was out, they were all praying for his return.

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03-14-2010, 02:32 PM
  #70
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You won't miss White until he's gone. That's what happened two seasons ago. Before he got hurt, everyone said he sucked. When he was out, they were all praying for his return.
Ever since his return he has been awful. Big difference between Colin White two years ago and Colin White now.

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03-14-2010, 02:36 PM
  #71
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Ever since his return he has been awful.
He really hasn't.

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Old
03-14-2010, 02:42 PM
  #72
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Ahem.


I give you, your 2009 Stanley Cup Champions, the Pittsburgh Penguins.
I think people in general greatly underestimated the value that the Orpik's, Jordan Staal, Letang, Talbot, Kunitz, Scuderi, Guerin's of the world brought to that team.

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03-14-2010, 02:43 PM
  #73
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yarrrrrr matey. ye be missin me when i be in louey lams locker.

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Old
03-14-2010, 03:49 PM
  #74
kyle evs48
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I think people in general greatly underestimated the value that the Orpik's, Jordan Staal, Letang, Talbot, Kunitz, Scuderi, Guerin's of the world brought to that team.
The Pens are top heavy. They rely on two guys for offense. The guys you mentioned all play supporting roles.

Exhibit A (again):
http://penguins.nhl.com/club/stats.h...eason=20082009

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Old
03-14-2010, 03:54 PM
  #75
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Losing White would not be a big blow. They could easily replace him..I even prefer Skoula to White.
Sorry, you're lost if you think this.

And take salaries out of the equation.

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