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Francois Beauchemin?

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Old
03-25-2010, 08:54 AM
  #76
EazyB97
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Originally Posted by HockeyPwnsSoccer View Post
Our defense is probably the best depth in the league.

But there is no franchise d-man..

I do not consider Phaneuf or Schenn as franchise d-men...
How many D-men would you consider to be worthy of the "franchise" tag? 5-6?
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Originally Posted by pigspigs76 View Post
very average defense and a big phat contract... He has a terrible wrist shot... when he joins a rush and the puck comes to him he almost always screws it up... happens every fken game!

I hope we can get rid of Kabs and him during the off-season. Komi and some1 else can take their place.
Do you really consider 2 more years at under $3.8 "phat"? It's very low for a player like Beauchemin, who can log huge minutes. His shot (Wrist, slap and snap) are all very hard, so is it the accuracy you're talking about when you say it's weak?

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03-25-2010, 09:06 AM
  #77
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Just hugely disappointed in his game.

Has a very limited game, but tries to stretch it and fails.

Looks like he needs a coach to reign him in not push him for more.

Should be a 2nd. pairing defender, getting much less ice time.

Lower case McCabe, so paid a high amount for what he brings to the team. Just being physically capable of playing 25-28 minutes a game doesn't mean you should be playing those minutes. Colton Orr could probably play 20 as he skates very well and is strong, but that would make as much sense as playing Beauchemin 25+ minutes a game as the number 1 d-man. He can't hide behind Niedermayer and Pronger in Toronto.

2nd. pairing defender.

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03-25-2010, 09:48 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Just hugely disappointed in his game.

Has a very limited game, but tries to stretch it and fails.

Looks like he needs a coach to reign him in not push him for more.

Should be a 2nd. pairing defender, getting much less ice time.

Lower case McCabe, so paid a high amount for what he brings to the team. Just being physically capable of playing 25-28 minutes a game doesn't mean you should be playing those minutes. Colton Orr could probably play 20 as he skates very well and is strong, but that would make as much sense as playing Beauchemin 25+ minutes a game as the number 1 d-man. He can't hide behind Niedermayer and Pronger in Toronto.

2nd. pairing defender.
Its one thing I don't understand either is that Beauchemin's ATOI is always used to support him, however shouldn't that be in conjunction to how the team is performing?. Just because your capable of playing 25 minutes, because your a conditioned athlete, doesn't mean you should if its not beneficial to the team if you do. IMO

If you have a 29th place team with a 29th place PP and 30th place and PK and 29th goals against, and Beauchemin gets more TOI/g than any other player in all situations, then conversely doesn't he influence those results more than any other player?. Would the result go up if his ice time went down?

I agree that he is a role player and best suited for being the other guy on the ice not the main guy.. If we were talking Batman and Robin, than Beauchemin would be Robin when paired with Niedermayer or Pronger or Phaneuf or Kaberle etc.

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03-25-2010, 09:57 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Its one thing I don't understand either is that Beauchemin's ATOI is always used to support him, however shouldn't that be in conjunction to how the team is performing?. Just because your capable of playing 25 minutes, because your a conditioned athlete, doesn't mean you should if its not beneficial to the team if you do. IMO

If you have a 29th place team with a 29th place PP and 30th place and PK and 29th goals against, and Beauchemin gets more TOI/g than any other player in all situations, then conversely doesn't he influence those results more than any other player?. Would the result go up if his ice time went down?

I agree that he is a role player and best suited for being the other guy on the ice not the main guy.. If we were talking Batman and Robin, than Beauchemin would be Robin when paired with Niedermayer or Pronger or Phaneuf or Kaberle etc.
He gets those minutes because he is better in his 23rd to 27th minutes than Exelby, Finger are in their 8-10th minutes. You could throw Schenn into this mix as well, but his minutes would be higher.

Nobody has ever claimed Beauchemin to be the star of the D-core, his role has always been to provide steady play, which he's done for the most part. Beauchemin does what is asked of him and does it well. He's been much closer to a solution than a problem this season for the Leafs. At 300k more than Finger, and less term (at the time of signing) Beauchemin is a steal. He's played big minutes of a cup winner, a contender and now the Leafs, so you're argument is questionable.

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03-25-2010, 11:45 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
He gets those minutes because he is better in his 23rd to 27th minutes than Exelby, Finger are in their 8-10th minutes. You could throw Schenn into this mix as well, but his minutes would be higher.

Nobody has ever claimed Beauchemin to be the star of the D-core, his role has always been to provide steady play, which he's done for the most part. Beauchemin does what is asked of him and does it well. He's been much closer to a solution than a problem this season for the Leafs. At 300k more than Finger, and less term (at the time of signing) Beauchemin is a steal. He's played big minutes of a cup winner, a contender and now the Leafs, so you're argument is questionable.
Exactly! His argument is very questionable imho

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03-25-2010, 11:46 AM
  #81
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Beauch have been a disappointment since the first time he tried to "pinch" in a leafs uniform..we really haven't seen much of that strong slap shot...i don't know if it's ron wilson's fault or what but our powerplay needs a serious overhaul so they can get beauchemin to shoot

I don't really mind Beauchemin in our team. But if we can get a top 6 forward for him, i'd jump on it

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03-25-2010, 02:55 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Nobody has ever claimed Beauchemin to be the star of the D-core, his role has always been to provide steady play, which he's done for the most part. Beauchemin does what is asked of him and does it well. He's been much closer to a solution than a problem this season for the Leafs.

At 300k more than Finger, and less term (at the time of signing) Beauchemin is a steal.

He's played big minutes of a cup winner, a contender and now the Leafs, so you're argument is questionable.
I don't think anyone is accusing Beauchemin of failing as a "star of the d-core". Anyone with eyes is aware of his range as a player. The issue here is that he's performed in the lower part of his range just about all year when a decent contract was handed to him in hopes for decent results. Suffice to say he has disappointed.

Now, the second portion I've singled out is absurd. How on earth is Beauchemin a steal simply because Finger is grossly overpaid? His play hasn't come anywhere near warranting his salary. Has Finger's? Of course not. That's also beside the point.

He also boasted significantly better teammates in Anaheim. Either Niedermayer or Pronger was on the ice for basically every minute of every game.

I do believe Beauch can be a valuable asset to this team, he simply needs to screw his head on straight. Stop with the overly aggressive play (which doesn't even involve hitting), keep it simple, play your position.

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03-25-2010, 03:07 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Vinh View Post
I don't think anyone is accusing Beauchemin of failing as a "star of the d-core". Anyone with eyes is aware of his range as a player. The issue here is that he's performed in the lower part of his range just about all year when a decent contract was handed to him in hopes for decent results. Suffice to say he has disappointed.
He's only dissappointed those who weren't familiar with his game. People who expected him to be a 29+ minute a d-man scoring 40+ points (10+ goals) and a rock defensively were out to lunch. Those expectations are showing here. It's unfortunate, but his reputation this summer went far beyond anything he could actually produce. People claiming he was flawless defensively and having Kubina type offensive production.

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Now, the second portion I've singled out is absurd. How on earth is Beauchemin a steal simply because Finger is grossly overpaid? His play hasn't come anywhere near warranting his salary. Has Finger's? Of course not. That's also beside the point.
It goes well beyond a bad contract. Finger is just a comparison, but you won't find many D-men in his pay range doing the job he is. He plays every situation, he does everything that's asked of him and he does it well.

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He also boasted significantly better teammates in Anaheim. Either Niedermayer or Pronger was on the ice for basically every minute of every game.
They always had one of their big 3 on and he was among them. He's clearly a notch below the other two, but he played a huge role for Anahiem in their cup winning season. He's been a part of good teams, now he's a part of a bad one. That's the point, to say his minutes reflect how poor this team is doesn't make sense given his TOI in Anahiem.

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I do believe Beauch can be a valuable asset to this team, he simply needs to screw his head on straight. Stop with the overly aggressive play (which doesn't even involve hitting), keep it simple, play your position.
He's a valuable asset now. His overly aggressive style comes from the bench, it's exactly what Wilson has told the D-core to do. Press-up and force the opposing forwards into turn-overs, if they don't turn it over, you're backcheckers should be there for support. Wilson's noted this a number of times throughout the season, Beauchemin does make mistakes, every d-man does, but playing his minutes in his role, he's done very well. My biggest complaint would be the lack of offense he brings, but that's not a huge issue considering it's a secondary part of his game.

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03-25-2010, 03:16 PM
  #84
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Couple of things I've noticed about him:

1. He makes awful, awful pinches that usually end up in an odd man rush the other way. He also seems to have trouble keeping the puck in the zone on clearing attempts.

2. He's mediocre on defense and is prone to creating defensive breakdowns, usually from dumb decisions or carelessness.

3. His shot is quick but he all too frequently either shoots it too high for a tip in front or just pastes it wide.

Honestly, the guy reminds me of McCabe with less offense.

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03-25-2010, 03:31 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
He's only dissappointed those who weren't familiar with his game. People who expected him to be a 29+ minute a d-man scoring 40+ points (10+ goals) and a rock defensively were out to lunch. Those expectations are showing here. It's unfortunate, but his reputation this summer went far beyond anything he could actually produce. People claiming he was flawless defensively and having Kubina type offensive production.


It goes well beyond a bad contract. Finger is just a comparison, but you won't find many D-men in his pay range doing the job he is. He plays every situation, he does everything that's asked of him and he does it well.


They always had one of their big 3 on and he was among them. He's clearly a notch below the other two, but he played a huge role for Anahiem in their cup winning season. He's been a part of good teams, now he's a part of a bad one. That's the point, to say his minutes reflect how poor this team is doesn't make sense given his TOI in Anahiem.


He's a valuable asset now. His overly aggressive style comes from the bench, it's exactly what Wilson has told the D-core to do. Press-up and force the opposing forwards into turn-overs, if they don't turn it over, you're backcheckers should be there for support. Wilson's noted this a number of times throughout the season, Beauchemin does make mistakes, every d-man does, but playing his minutes in his role, he's done very well. My biggest complaint would be the lack of offense he brings, but that's not a huge issue considering it's a secondary part of his game.
I don't know how to split quotes up so you'll have to excuse my chunks of text addressing each point. Anyway, here goes:

I've seen him a fair bit throughout his career and he hasn't played up to his Anaheim standard either. That's the only disappointment on my end. I certainly didn't expect him to be a monster back there or to put up huge offensive numbers. Just steady, and frankly, I don't consider his play to fit that qualifier this year. Just an opinion though.

As for dmen who do his job at a similar salary, I'd have to look into that. Off the top of my head though, Yandle, Andy Greene, Seidenberg, Hamhuis, Ballard, Daley, Phillips, etc.

He was a big cog in the Ducks machine, no argument there. However, with the significant minutes compounded by a lack of help from teammates, his flaws have been exposed by opponents on a nightly basis.

I get that the aggressive play is part of Wilson's strategy, but there's a time and place for pinches. If he's jumping up to keep the puck in along the offensive zone boards, then I agree, he should definitely have forwards covering his tracks. However, a lot of the time, he's trying to pick off passes in the neutral zone when his forwards are coming back after a shift on the attack. In that situation, there's no chance he'll have any support. Yet he dives right in regardless.

Where offensive production is concerned, I'm not worried. It's not what he was brought here for and 25-30 points is near his average anyway.

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03-25-2010, 03:46 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Vinh View Post
I don't know how to split quotes up so you'll have to excuse my chunks of text addressing each point. Anyway, here goes:
You can write (quote=Eazy_B97) Insert my text (/Quote) but use square brackets. I find it easier to read, but it's not a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Vinh View Post
I've seen him a fair bit throughout his career and he hasn't played up to his Anaheim standard either. That's the only disappointment on my end. I certainly didn't expect him to be a monster back there or to put up huge offensive numbers. Just steady, and frankly, I don't consider his play to fit that qualifier this year. Just an opinion though.
We disagree here, I find the major difference to be the support and what Wilson is asking of him.

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As for dmen who do his job at a similar salary, I'd have to look into that. Off the top of my head though, Yandle, Andy Greene, Seidenberg, Hamhuis, Ballard, Daley, Phillips, etc.
I like many of the guys on your list, but I'm not sure they are as versatile as Beauchemin. The ones I'd take ahead of Beauchemin are also on fairly short term deals with a year or so left.

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He was a big cog in the Ducks machine, no argument there. However, with the significant minutes compounded by a lack of help from teammates, his flaws have been exposed by opponents on a nightly basis.
This isn't a big concern for me. The only major flaw I see is his footspeed and that's largely due to the pressing up on forwards. Changing directions against his flow puts him at a great disadvantage, but again, this is more of a systems issue than a Beauchemin issue. A d-man is responsible for reading the situation and many here are complaining about his pinching, but he seems to time them decently, the support just lets up or identifies the wrong man.

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Originally Posted by Vinh View Post
I get that the aggressive play is part of Wilson's strategy, but there's a time and place for pinches. If he's jumping up to keep the puck in along the offensive zone boards, then I agree, he should definitely have forwards covering his tracks. However, a lot of the time, he's trying to pick off passes in the neutral zone when his forwards are coming back after a shift on the attack. In that situation, there's no chance he'll have any support. Yet he dives right in regardless.
Like I said above, he needs to read the situation like everyone else, but the neutral zone is where Wilson has really stressed pressure. I find there is more concern with him stepping up on a 3on2 or 4on3 to create an odd-man rush that picking off passes, but I find the backcheckers aren't identifying their responsibilities. He's made some bad decisions, every d-man does, but he generally does his job taking his man out of the play and buying time for others to get back.

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Where offensive production is concerned, I'm not worried. It's not what he was brought here for and 25-30 points is near his average anyway.
We agree here.

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03-25-2010, 04:12 PM
  #87
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Put Gunnarsson against teams' top lines and see how well he does.
IMO Beauch has been exactly as advertised: solid, unspectacular.
you are honestly trying to convince yourself and others that of the 17 minutes of EVEN STRENGTH ice time gunnarsson plays per game, none of it is against top players....right.

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03-25-2010, 04:16 PM
  #88
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Colton Orr could probably play 20 as he skates very well and is strong, but that would make as much sense as playing Beauchemin 25+ minutes a game as the number 1 d-man. He can't hide behind Niedermayer and Pronger in Toronto.
colton orr is the worst skater on the team. saying he skates very well is laughable!

beauchemin led all ducks in ice time, including pronger and niedermayer, in the playoffs the year they won the cup and was absolutely fantastic in every series.

having said that, he is not a top pairing defenseman imo...but he definitely didnt hide behind anyone in anaheim. he was a rock defensively...

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03-25-2010, 05:26 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Baba Ganoush View Post
colton orr is the worst skater on the team. saying he skates very well is laughable!

beauchemin led all ducks in ice time, including pronger and niedermayer, in the playoffs the year they won the cup and was absolutely fantastic in every series.

having said that, he is not a top pairing defenseman imo...but he definitely didnt hide behind anyone in anaheim. he was a rock defensively...
Which is exactly true and I did forget to mention that myself. Good point. Beauch. led the Ducks in ice -time. He never hid behind Nieds or Pronger. Pronger..to me was way more of a defensive liability then Beach. on the ducks... (during their cup run) and took way more stupid penalities on the ducks as oppose to Beauch...

Thing is - most of these kids never watched the Ducks in '07, or perhaps just the cup series vs. The Sens... so they have no idea of Beauch. and his upside whatsoever. The younger Maple Leafs crowd seems to be fickle on these boards..if the team looses one game in a winning streak.. i.e. vs. the islanders or vs. the panthers.. they seem to TURN on everyone. Really really odd..but now it makes sense on why they're all over Beauchimen right now...I'm pretty sure they were in love with him mid season..just before Komisarek went down..pre Gunnarson & Phaneuf.

Schenn was there target at that point... funny how he's turned it around too...

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03-25-2010, 08:10 PM
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exactly. i don't think ULF could have had a worse comparison/comment about orr and beauchemin. WAY off.

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03-25-2010, 08:36 PM
  #91
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Great stick work by Beauch tonight to set up the ot winner.....

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03-25-2010, 08:54 PM
  #92
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All I can really say about this guy is that he has good stick work, blocks some shots(hey even finger did that) and never get beat 1 on 1 defensively. The big shot is a bit of a bonus, but is a bit slow on this release. In fairness to him he cant really do anything to bring up his +/- since he is usually only a +0 when playing well. With this in mind, he is not a bad guy to have as the #4 guy,but will probably be replaced by komi.

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03-25-2010, 09:05 PM
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Great stick work by Beauch tonight to set up the ot winner.....
He lost the puck on the boards, and Atlanta gave the puck away.

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03-25-2010, 09:13 PM
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He lost the puck on the boards, and Atlanta gave the puck away.
great effort nonetheless. if he wasn't in on the forecheck along the boards the goal would have never happened.

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03-25-2010, 09:29 PM
  #95
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great effort nonetheless. if he wasn't in on the forecheck along the boards the goal would have never happened.
he was almost caught pinching again

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03-25-2010, 09:34 PM
  #96
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You can write (quote=Eazy_B97) Insert my text (/Quote) but use square brackets. I find it easier to read, but it's not a big deal.
Ah, thanks. I'll be sure to use those from here on out.
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We disagree here, I find the major difference to be the support and what Wilson is asking of him.
That's fair.
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I like many of the guys on your list, but I'm not sure they are as versatile as Beauchemin. The ones I'd take ahead of Beauchemin are also on fairly short term deals with a year or so left.
Yeah, I realized most have shorter deals as I was typing those out. I'd say other than Seidenberg though, that they're all quite versatile and can log decent minutes. Perhaps not Beauch's 25, but somewhere in the vicinity of 20-23.
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This isn't a big concern for me. The only major flaw I see is his footspeed and that's largely due to the pressing up on forwards. Changing directions against his flow puts him at a great disadvantage, but again, this is more of a systems issue than a Beauchemin issue. A d-man is responsible for reading the situation and many here are complaining about his pinching, but he seems to time them decently, the support just lets up or identifies the wrong man.
He times them alright, it's just that the puck often slips by and then an odd-man rush ensues.
Quote:
Like I said above, he needs to read the situation like everyone else, but the neutral zone is where Wilson has really stressed pressure. I find there is more concern with him stepping up on a 3on2 or 4on3 to create an odd-man rush that picking off passes, but I find the backcheckers aren't identifying their responsibilities. He's made some bad decisions, every d-man does, but he generally does his job taking his man out of the play and buying time for others to get back.
I can certainly concede that the backcheckers are part of the issue. The bottom 6 could use an overhaul in the off-season as I find only Sjostrom, Wallin, and Hanson are effective in that role. However, there are times and areas on the ice when the pinches simply cannot work. If this is solely a Wilson issue, then I retract my qualms with Beauch. However, if I were to guess, he likely has some leeway in deciding when to jump and when not to.


As for this notion that he was pivotal to tonight's OT winner, come on. He jars the puck loose, sure, but the Thrasher on the wall makes a horrible play through the middle of the ice instead of just chipping it out. That is what directly led to Grabo's tally.

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03-25-2010, 10:09 PM
  #97
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he was almost caught pinching again
yep, but he didn't, and we won the game because of it.


in case you haven't noticed, the leafs play a high-risk, high-reward system. the defenseman pinch because of Ron Wilson, not necessariy because of instinct. we saw Komisarek struggle big time with this (bad pinches) when he actually played this season.

you never saw Beauchemin or Komisarek struggle with things like that with Anaheim/Montreal...because they played it safe more times than not, and it was their job to "stay at home"... that is not Ron Wilson's style though obviously.

i think as our team gets better (or gets a new coach), the D won't have to do things like that as much. we basically need to play a risky style to have a chance, because we don't have the talent (or coach) to win playing a conservative style (just my opinion).

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03-25-2010, 10:40 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Baba Ganoush View Post
exactly. i don't think ULF could have had a worse comparison/comment about orr and beauchemin. WAY off.
Orr skates well enough for a big man, is he Kulemin no. But he skates quite well for an enforcer.

Defensive pairings 2008-2009 Beauchemin:
55.06% EV 23 BEAUCHEMIN,FRANCOIS - 27 NIEDERMAYER,SCOTT
14.98% SH 23 BEAUCHEMIN,FRANCOIS - 27 NIEDERMAYER,SCOTT
4.16% EV 23 BEAUCHEMIN,FRANCOIS - 25 PRONGER,CHRIS

Anyone want to tell me Beauchemin didn't have Niedermayer covering up for him again?

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03-25-2010, 10:41 PM
  #99
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He lost the puck on the boards, and Atlanta gave the puck away.
Kulemin was back covering up for his pinch, so no problem.

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03-25-2010, 10:58 PM
  #100
Baba Ganoush
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Orr skates well enough for a big man, is he Kulemin no. But he skates quite well for an enforcer.

Defensive pairings 2008-2009 Beauchemin:
55.06% EV 23 BEAUCHEMIN,FRANCOIS - 27 NIEDERMAYER,SCOTT
14.98% SH 23 BEAUCHEMIN,FRANCOIS - 27 NIEDERMAYER,SCOTT
4.16% EV 23 BEAUCHEMIN,FRANCOIS - 25 PRONGER,CHRIS

Anyone want to tell me Beauchemin didn't have Niedermayer covering up for him again?
saying he skates well for an enforcer and he skates well are too completely different statements.


you posting how often he was on the ice with certain players proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. did you even watch the ducks in the playoffs?

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