HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lebrun Plekanec staying in MTL(No deal until off season)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-14-2010, 11:46 PM
  #101
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
that's all fine and good, but how many teams do you think will be lining up to pay spacek ~4M$ for the next 2 SEASONS?

or do you suggest trading away assets with Spacek just for the sake of getting rid of him?

however you want to cut it, trying to manage the cap in the offseason is going to be difficult.
wether it's finding a way to unload undesirable contracts, or not being able to keep/replace our UFA's, bottom line is that we are a cap spending team with several large contracts that are not very desirable.

I'm all for trading Spacek, but it will likely cost us a decent prospect or a pick in the process...
I agree, i find it hard to believe that any team will take either Hamrlik or Spacek by themselves. What i do see happening is a team being interested in one of our goalies, prospects or younger players, and us forcing them to take one of Hammer or Spacek in the deal. That or we literally have to give away one of these guys for pretty much nothing. Oh to be stuck with untradeable contracts...

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 12:03 AM
  #102
thetrueblack
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 167
vCash: 500
The way he has played, it will be much harder to get a taker on Spacek than Hamrlik, who shows to be serviceable, efficient, and proving last year was a down year.

But getting rid of Spacek must be a very high priority for Gauthier.

I can see Spacek, Mara, MAB, and even Gill moved if necessary. But we might be wise to consult Guy 'Le Chiffre' Boucher and ask him who can be thrown into those deals and sweeten the pots.

thetrueblack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:44 AM
  #103
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetrueblack View Post
The way he has played, it will be much harder to get a taker on Spacek than Hamrlik, who shows to be serviceable, efficient, and proving last year was a down year.

But getting rid of Spacek must be a very high priority for Gauthier.

I can see Spacek, Mara, MAB, and even Gill moved if necessary. But we might be wise to consult Guy 'Le Chiffre' Boucher and ask him who can be thrown into those deals and sweeten the pots.
MAB and Mara probably wont be re-signed but I'm not convinced that they are going to attempt to move Spacek. I tend to believe that he has played through multiple injuries this season and that his best is yet to come.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:58 AM
  #104
schumway2
Registered User
 
schumway2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
MAB and Mara probably wont be re-signed but I'm not convinced that they are going to attempt to move Spacek. I tend to believe that he has played through multiple injuries this season and that his best is yet to come.
He's 36 years old. I seriously doubt his best is yet to come.

schumway2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 02:05 AM
  #105
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
He's 36 years old. I seriously doubt his best is yet to come.
I'm talking about this season. Just judging by the way he's shooting the puck as of late, I think he's healthier now than at any other point this season.

I'm not saying that he's going to roll back the clock 5 years, but when it comes to this season, I think his best is about to come.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 02:08 AM
  #106
schumway2
Registered User
 
schumway2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,099
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I'm talking about this season. Just judging by the way he's shooting the puck as of late, I think he's healthier now than at any other point this season.

I'm not saying that he's going to roll back the clock 5 years, but when it comes to this season, I think his best is about to come.
What does that have to do with moving him after the season?

schumway2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 02:27 AM
  #107
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by schumway2 View Post
What does that have to do with moving him after the season?
If I am right about his performance down the stretch, then I think you are getting what you want our of Jaro, and are less likely going to attempt to move him. Even if you wanted to move him, I dont see the GMs biting simply based on the length of his contract. You're gonna have to bite the bullet on this guy... hopefully get another couple good seasons out of him and see what you can do when he enters his final year.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 03:34 AM
  #108
Vodka138
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15
vCash: 500
meh

Still not convinced Pleks is a worth a high end contact considering what's already tied up in Gomez for 4 more yrs. That and the fact we're committing to being small at centre for way too long. Maybe waiting till after we see he's not a 'little girl' in these upcoming playoffs will help me decide. Gauthier is hopefully thinking the same thing.

Vodka138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 04:46 AM
  #109
Artyukhin*
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,831
vCash: 500
Plekanec staying in MTL?

yes he is ,doesnt he own a place in montreal?
Lebrun will be right

Artyukhin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 08:33 AM
  #110
onice
Registered User
 
onice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 5,732
vCash: 500
Lebrun Plekanec staying in MTL

Who the heck is Lebrun Plekanec? 2009 draft pick?

onice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 08:57 AM
  #111
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
The way I see it, sadly, Spacek is expendable as we have 3 D in the AHL ready or near ready to take a spot on the RD and he hasn't been great playing RD, I think he'd be a better fit for another team. Given his past stats/play as an LD and his current salary, I still think some teams will be willing to gamble on him, maybe Carolina.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 09:06 AM
  #112
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
that's all fine and good, but how many teams do you think will be lining up to pay spacek ~4M$ for the next 2 SEASONS?

or do you suggest trading away assets with Spacek just for the sake of getting rid of him?

however you want to cut it, trying to manage the cap in the offseason is going to be difficult.
wether it's finding a way to unload undesirable contracts, or not being able to keep/replace our UFA's, bottom line is that we are a cap spending team with several large contracts that are not very desirable.

I'm all for trading Spacek, but it will likely cost us a decent prospect or a pick in the process...
The same way you were downgrading the value of this team without Markov, and time proved you wrong, you are again only using your capacity of trying to paint everything black.

Spacek is tradeable. It's a TWO year contract, and represents nothing when set on a cap, REALISTICALLY. The average take of a single player salary on a full cap is 2,47 mil. Spacek is only 1,33 above that. You also downgrade his impact and the fact he hasn't played at his natural position all season long, and yet has one of the Habs best +/-. GMs, unlike you, know the worth of Spacek. A lot of team are always looking to upgrade their top 4, and the players that can fill their need isn't always available on the FA market. You'll probably ignore all of this as usual and keep spouting your myths and your BS.

This league is run on filling needs for certain positions. I'm pretty sure there will be an oppurtunity to unload Spacek at the end of the season. A team like Dallas may very well be interested, depending on what they do in the offseason, and what hard cap Hicks plans on. I look at many defenses, and a lot of them could improve with Spacek on the left replacing a 2-3 mil cap player. That's an upgrade for 1-2 mil more on the cap.

As always you are trying to fog reality, trying to sound impressive about his 4 mil cap hit.

Hamrlik? Quite an easy trade to make. For one season, Habs can find many takers.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 10:10 AM
  #113
maci4life
Registered User
 
maci4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Canada
Country: Macedonia
Posts: 891
vCash: 500
the question is.

Is Pleks one of those players that will be a contributor in the playoffs?
Does he have what it takes to win at all costs?

Personally i don't think so, and hoped that he'd be traded while his market value was high.

Gauthier may have tried and nothing substantial was offered in return, but i think it may be a mistake to hold onto him long term.

maci4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:08 PM
  #114
JohnnyReb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
So if I understand correctly, most people are okay with dumping Hamrlik, our #1 defenseman for most of the year, to resign Tomas Plekanec??

And nobody thinks that's a big deal?? Nobody sees the "cost" of resigning Plekanec, and not just in salary?

Other people want to throw in Spacek as well?? We want to effectively "trade" Hamrlik and Spacek for Plekanec??

Subban is good, but assuming he's going to "replace" Hamrlik in the lineup and be just as effective is dangerous. Ditto for Carle, Weber, or whoever else we think is "ready" for the NHL.

JohnnyReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:11 PM
  #115
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
So if I understand correctly, most people are okay with dumping Hamrlik, our #1 defenseman for most of the year, to resign Tomas Plekanec??

And nobody thinks that's a big deal?? Nobody sees the "cost" of resigning Plekanec, and not just in salary?

Other people want to throw in Spacek as well?? We want to effectively "trade" Hamrlik and Spacek for Plekanec??

Subban is good, but assuming he's going to "replace" Hamrlik in the lineup and be just as effective is dangerous. Ditto for Carle, Weber, or whoever else we think is "ready" for the NHL.
Only one of Spacek and Hamrlik need to go to keep Plekanec--trading them both would be a mistake for sure.

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:19 PM
  #116
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Only one of Spacek and Hamrlik need to go to keep Plekanec--trading them both would be a mistake for sure.
Not if you sign a UFA to replace Hammer first.

Before FA, trade Spacek.

At FA, check the market, it would be irresponsible NOT to do so considering the age and contract lenght left of Hammer.

If you can sign one, THEN trade Hammer.

People think its an automatic that Hammer would be easier to trade, because people always analyse it in terms of quantity and quality, but rarely even considers NEEDS. Spacek might be a better fit on some teams. And even though Hammer only has 1 year left on his contract, Spacek costs less.

And for anyone saying teams wouldn't touch Spacek because of his cap hit, I'll repeat it loud and clear for anyone with a brain to hear it :

The average cap hit for a single player on a FULL cap is 2,47 million on a 23 player roster. 56,8 mil divided by 23 = 2,47

Spacek makes 1,33 more than this average. Many teams have Dmen that cost 2,5 and are worth half of what he can accomplish. Upgrading for 1,33 mil more on the cap is nothing risky.

It all depends on situation and needs.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:22 PM
  #117
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Thing is, that all depends on what the RFAs receive mostly. And Plex. But the room to manoeuvre is adequate.

And as far as Subban for Spacek = Plex salary difference, you're pushing it. Subban is 850k, Spacek is 3,8, so it gives 3 mil of space. Plex already takes 2,75 of cap hit. I don't think he'll get more than 5 mil, and if he gets it long term it might go down to 4,5, so even then you have 700k to 1,25m you can put on the small raises other RFAs will get. The cap going up will take care of the contract upgrade to Halak, while I don't think Price will get that much.
That's why I said close to it. There will be a little bit of room for maneuvering, but not much. If someone throws a offer sheet at either goalie it could cause problems as well. Someone could throw 3-4million at Price. If I was GM of, say Edmonton. I would. Other GMsw know our situation and if they were smart the would try to exploit it.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:25 PM
  #118
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
The same way you were downgrading the value of this team without Markov, and time proved you wrong, you are again only using your capacity of trying to paint everything black.

Spacek is tradeable. It's a TWO year contract, and represents nothing when set on a cap, REALISTICALLY. The average take of a single player salary on a full cap is 2,47 mil. Spacek is only 1,33 above that. You also downgrade his impact and the fact he hasn't played at his natural position all season long, and yet has one of the Habs best +/-. GMs, unlike you, know the worth of Spacek. A lot of team are always looking to upgrade their top 4, and the players that can fill their need isn't always available on the FA market. You'll probably ignore all of this as usual and keep spouting your myths and your BS.

This league is run on filling needs for certain positions. I'm pretty sure there will be an oppurtunity to unload Spacek at the end of the season. A team like Dallas may very well be interested, depending on what they do in the offseason, and what hard cap Hicks plans on. I look at many defenses, and a lot of them could improve with Spacek on the left replacing a 2-3 mil cap player. That's an upgrade for 1-2 mil more on the cap.

As always you are trying to fog reality, trying to sound impressive about his 4 mil cap hit.

Hamrlik? Quite an easy trade to make. For one season, Habs can find many takers.
Spacek is movable, but not without bringing a slightly lesser contract back. At least IMO.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:26 PM
  #119
bipolarhabfan
Registered User
 
bipolarhabfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Burnaby, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
the question is.

Is Pleks one of those players that will be a contributor in the playoffs?
Does he have what it takes to win at all costs?

Personally i don't think so, and hoped that he'd be traded while his market value was high.

Gauthier may have tried and nothing substantial was offered in return, but i think it may be a mistake to hold onto him long term.
I remember pundits and hockey experts saying that Datsyuk did not have what it takes to be a good playoff player. Than in 06-07 something clicked. He scored 16 points in 18 games and in the subsequent season scored 23 in 20. What I am saying is that Pleks will be okay in the playoffs, especially since we now have two players in Gomez and Gionta who excel during the second season.

bipolarhabfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:27 PM
  #120
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
That's why I said close to it. There will be a little bit of room for maneuvering, but not much. If someone throws a offer sheet at either goalie it could cause problems as well. Someone could throw 3-4million at Price. If I was GM of, say Edmonton. I would. Other GMsw know our situation and if they were smart the would try to exploit it.
Back again with more assumptions. Habs can sign all of them well before they can get offersheets. You're using the same debunked AK-myth the alarmists were using back then just before he signed his contract, the week prior to FA, before he could ever get offersheets.

Also note that AK got about what I was saying at the time. I said 3 mil. Most people thought he'd get 4-5 mil.

I think I'm gonna keep trusting my own judgement rather than your preconceived notions.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:30 PM
  #121
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
So if I understand correctly, most people are okay with dumping Hamrlik, our #1 defenseman for most of the year, to resign Tomas Plekanec??

And nobody thinks that's a big deal?? Nobody sees the "cost" of resigning Plekanec, and not just in salary?

Other people want to throw in Spacek as well?? We want to effectively "trade" Hamrlik and Spacek for Plekanec??

Subban is good, but assuming he's going to "replace" Hamrlik in the lineup and be just as effective is dangerous. Ditto for Carle, Weber, or whoever else we think is "ready" for the NHL.
Exactly. I agree 100%. Other terrible contracts have made it so we have to sacrifice one of our dmen just to sign our own pleks. The team will get worse from this, not better.

I like Subban too don't get me wrong.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:32 PM
  #122
habsjunkie2*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Back again with more assumptions. Habs can sign all of them well before they can get offersheets. You're using the same debunked AK-myth the alarmists were using back then just before he signed his contract, the week prior to FA, before he could ever get offersheets.

Also note that AK got about what I was saying at the time. I said 3 mil. Most people thought he'd get 4-5 mil.

I think I'm gonna keep trusting my own judgement rather than your preconceived notions.
Will see. I said could, not that it was likely. We're in tough though no doubt about it.

habsjunkie2* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:33 PM
  #123
JohnnyReb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
Only one of Spacek and Hamrlik need to go to keep Plekanec--trading them both would be a mistake for sure.
Still wouldn't do it. Trade your #2 defenseman, a 23 minute-per-game guy, on a team that is defensively challenged to begin with, for a 65-75 point center? My god, what happens if Markov gets hurt again next year? Go with Josh Gorges as your #1 defenseman??

We don't have the defensive depth to dump Hamrlik for a pick, as is being suggested here. How many top-four defenseman do we have? I would say three;

#1 Markov
#2 Hamrlik
#4 Gorges

The rest, Spacek, O'Byrne, Gill, whoever, are all 5-6 defensemen. We get rid of Hamrlik and we'd be down TWO top four defenseman. On the other hand, Plekanec is a top six forward. We currently have five other top six forwards ready to go next year, in Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri, Pouliot and AK. We also have SK, Pacioretty, any potential UFA we sign or a surprise out of camp, like Desharnais, Trotter, or Maxwell (hey, if people can toss out Weber or Carle as “ready” replacements). It would be a lot easier to replace Plekanec cheaply, than it would be to replace Hamrlik. The drop-off from a 65 point center to a 50 point center is not worth giving up your #1-2 defenseman. Especially not on this team.

JohnnyReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:33 PM
  #124
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Spacek is movable, but not without bringing a slightly lesser contract back. At least IMO.
Trying to twist it up into an other myth.

Look at the trades in the past offseasons.

You're using season mentality on offseason market. In the offseason, almost 30-40% of all contracts are up. Teams don't actually need to "replace" salary, and not ALL players get signed by a team. (eg MAB) Some retire.

Again, as I've stated before, it all depends on needs. All teams have different needs. To say Spacek is a clear cut problem as trade bait, is pushing the enveloppe, and if you do look at previous trades in the offseason, often players can go for picks. Want some examples? Tanguay is one that rings close to home. That's a trade that probably couldn't happen in the season because of salaries that needed to be swapped. In the offseason, it's a different story, it was pick for player.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2010, 01:36 PM
  #125
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Not if you sign a UFA to replace Hammer first.

Before FA, trade Spacek.

At FA, check the market, it would be irresponsible NOT to do so considering the age and contract lenght left of Hammer.

If you can sign one, THEN trade Hammer.

People think its an automatic that Hammer would be easier to trade, because people always analyse it in terms of quantity and quality, but rarely even considers NEEDS. Spacek might be a better fit on some teams. And even though Hammer only has 1 year left on his contract, Spacek costs less.

And for anyone saying teams wouldn't touch Spacek because of his cap hit, I'll repeat it loud and clear for anyone with a brain to hear it :

The average cap hit for a single player on a FULL cap is 2,47 million on a 23 player roster. 56,8 mil divided by 23 = 2,47

Spacek makes 1,33 more than this average. Many teams have Dmen that cost 2,5 and are worth half of what he can accomplish. Upgrading for 1,33 mil more on the cap is nothing risky.

It all depends on situation and needs.
I agree with everything you say to a point. I'm of the mind though, that the last thing you'd want to do after blowing up the team last year is to make two more huge moves just one year removed of that. Spacek and Hammer averaged over 22:00 minutes all year long. Their teammates have gotten used to relying on them for those minutes, and a certain cohesion has been developed with these guys being an integral part of the team. To take them both out at the same time would i think shake things up a bit too much.

On top of that, you've seen how long it takes for most players to get acclimatized to Martin's system, to integrate two more d-men in the same year seems like a mistake to me, and ultimately unnecessary. Both Gorges and O'byrne have improved nicely this year; let them continue to do so with Spacek there being a steady veteran presence for another couple of years. By the beginning of the 12-13 season, they'll be perfectly ready to take over as the veterans on the team. I think Gorges is pretty much already there, but there's no need to put too much pressure on him.

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.