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Our Blueline Youth got worse this year

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Old
03-15-2010, 10:36 AM
  #51
Trxjw
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McDonagh still projects to be an excellent #3 d-man. Frankly, he's been over-hyped to begin with because too many people base their entire opinion of a prospect on the 4 or 5 sentences the HF writer jots down on their player profile. The day we acquired him, the thread read like this:

"Who's McDonagh? Anyone know anything about him?"

"HF says he's a first-pairing d-man!!"

"Omgz steal!!"

"<<Insert OT picture here>>" -- Deleted by mod.

Has his stock fallen in the eyes of some people? Yes. Has he regressed this year? Absolutely not. He's one of, if not the best two-way d-man in the NCAA. He provides leadership, grit, and a great transition game from the blue line.

Sauer actually improved his overall game. The only thing that 'regressed' was his health.

Sanguinetti continues to make progress in his defensive game, and while his offense may have been lacking during his call-up, had he played a full season in Hartford he would have likely eclipsed the 50 point mark. Quite a feat, especially when you consider how poorly they've been playing. Can't imagine the kid's confidence isn't hurting given Del Zotto made the jump immediately and Gilroy, for whatever reason, continues to earn time in the NHL.

Gilroy was over-hyped from the start. He's a tremendous skater, but doesn't do much else. That one goal against the Debbies in pre-season probably erased any chance of him not making the team out of camp. He's been decent some nights, invisible on others, but pretty lousy on most. He's a rookie, sure, but he's going to have to figure out a way to defend forwards in the NHL with his speed if he can't manage to get stronger.

Kundratek is anchoring the blue line on a good Medicine Hat team. He put up a career high in points, and is +13. Far too early to give up on him, and while he missed his shot at Hartford this fall, he still has plenty of time to prove himself. He has an outside shot as a 2nd pairing guy, but could likely become a very steady bottom pairing guy with a big shot and a nice edge to his game. Not sure how one could say he got worse.

Colorado gave up on Williams for a reason. Another instance of too many posters clinging to the HF ratings system. The kid is probably going to go the route of so many others that had didn't have the head to match the talent.

Gaulton improved only because he managed to play more than 20 games this year. He always had the talent, but it's the injury history that allowed us to take him in a late round.

I'm glad that people take an interest in our prospects, but it's foolish to make claims about everyone regressing when it's clear that's not the case.

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03-15-2010, 10:42 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im afraid the first part is absolutely true. Just a simple search of NHL attendance from the early 2000's, when things were really ****ed up, shows that MSG's average attendance was over 18,000 per game...doesnt mean people showed up, but the tickets were bought, and as we've said, thats all Dolan and company care about really.
Did you mean to say it wasn't true? I am a little confused. You say I was right and then give a stat saying how the games were sold out.

And anyway...I would like to see a split stat of how many of those seats were bought up by Cablevision itself to make it look like a sellout.

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03-15-2010, 10:51 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Did you mean to say it wasn't true? I am a little confused. You say I was right and then give a stat saying how the games were sold out.

And anyway...I would like to see a split stat of how many of those seats were bought up by Cablevision itself to make it look like a sellout.
You said it was absolutely untrue that people were going to the games during the dark ages. I said it is absolutely true, and referenced how MSG was drawing over 18,000 in 2001,2002, and 2003. So, no, Im not agreeing with you.

As for the second part, I dont know...not into conspiracy theories much.

All Im really trying to say is that the Garden continued to draw when the team was at its worst. That was at a time when there was absolutely no direction whatsoever. If the team sucked, but was playing youngsters and selling the rebuild idea, they'd still draw.

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03-15-2010, 10:54 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
McDonagh still projects to be an excellent #3 d-man. Frankly, he's been over-hyped to begin with because too many people base their entire opinion of a prospect on the 4 or 5 sentences the HF writer jots down on their player profile. The day we acquired him, the thread read like this:

"Who's McDonagh? Anyone know anything about him?"

"HF says he's a first-pairing d-man!!"

"Omgz steal!!"

"<<Insert OT picture here>>" -- Deleted by mod.

Has his stock fallen in the eyes of some people? Yes. Has he regressed this year? Absolutely not. He's one of, if not the best two-way d-man in the NCAA. He provides leadership, grit, and a great transition game from the blue line.

Sauer actually improved his overall game. The only thing that 'regressed' was his health.

Sanguinetti continues to make progress in his defensive game, and while his offense may have been lacking during his call-up, had he played a full season in Hartford he would have likely eclipsed the 50 point mark. Quite a feat, especially when you consider how poorly they've been playing. Can't imagine the kid's confidence isn't hurting given Del Zotto made the jump immediately and Gilroy, for whatever reason, continues to earn time in the NHL.

Gilroy was over-hyped from the start. He's a tremendous skater, but doesn't do much else. That one goal against the Debbies in pre-season probably erased any chance of him not making the team out of camp. He's been decent some nights, invisible on others, but pretty lousy on most. He's a rookie, sure, but he's going to have to figure out a way to defend forwards in the NHL with his speed if he can't manage to get stronger.

Kundratek is anchoring the blue line on a good Medicine Hat team. He put up a career high in points, and is +13. Far too early to give up on him, and while he missed his shot at Hartford this fall, he still has plenty of time to prove himself. He has an outside shot as a 2nd pairing guy, but could likely become a very steady bottom pairing guy with a big shot and a nice edge to his game. Not sure how one could say he got worse.

Colorado gave up on Williams for a reason. Another instance of too many posters clinging to the HF ratings system. The kid is probably going to go the route of so many others that had didn't have the head to match the talent.

Gaulton improved only because he managed to play more than 20 games this year. He always had the talent, but it's the injury history that allowed us to take him in a late round.

I'm glad that people take an interest in our prospects, but it's foolish to make claims about everyone regressing when it's clear that's not the case.
Terrific post.

I was pretty high on Kundratek last season, but I haven't seen much of him this year, nor have I really followed his progress. He's a good kid though, and he is talented... I don't think his stock has really "fallen" this season.

What about Maggio? No one ever mentions him. He's a baby and he's having a pretty good season. He's also a guy that slipped due to injury concerns. If we're going to even both including Dowzak in a prospect discussion, Maggio needs to be mentioned as well.

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03-15-2010, 10:55 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You said it was absolutely untrue that people were going to the games during the dark ages. I said it is absolutely true, and referenced how MSG was drawing over 18,000 in 2001,2002, and 2003. So, no, Im not agreeing with you.

As for the second part, I dont know...not into conspiracy theories much.

All Im really trying to say is that the Garden continued to draw when the team was at its worst. That was at a time when there was absolutely no direction whatsoever. If the team sucked, but was playing youngsters and selling the rebuild idea, they'd still draw.
Conspiracy theory? Hardly. You must not work in sports, because this is a common practice EVERYWHERE. Teams/Schools buy up tickets all the time to make their attendance numbers look good.

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03-15-2010, 10:58 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
McDonagh still projects to be an excellent #3 d-man. Frankly, he's been over-hyped to begin with because too many people base their entire opinion of a prospect on the 4 or 5 sentences the HF writer jots down on their player profile. The day we acquired him, the thread read like this:

"Who's McDonagh? Anyone know anything about him?"

"HF says he's a first-pairing d-man!!"

"Omgz steal!!"

"<<Insert OT picture here>>" -- Deleted by mod.

Has his stock fallen in the eyes of some people? Yes. Has he regressed this year? Absolutely not. He's one of, if not the best two-way d-man in the NCAA. He provides leadership, grit, and a great transition game from the blue line.

Sauer actually improved his overall game. The only thing that 'regressed' was his health.

Sanguinetti continues to make progress in his defensive game, and while his offense may have been lacking during his call-up, had he played a full season in Hartford he would have likely eclipsed the 50 point mark. Quite a feat, especially when you consider how poorly they've been playing. Can't imagine the kid's confidence isn't hurting given Del Zotto made the jump immediately and Gilroy, for whatever reason, continues to earn time in the NHL.

Gilroy was over-hyped from the start. He's a tremendous skater, but doesn't do much else. That one goal against the Debbies in pre-season probably erased any chance of him not making the team out of camp. He's been decent some nights, invisible on others, but pretty lousy on most. He's a rookie, sure, but he's going to have to figure out a way to defend forwards in the NHL with his speed if he can't manage to get stronger.

Kundratek is anchoring the blue line on a good Medicine Hat team. He put up a career high in points, and is +13. Far too early to give up on him, and while he missed his shot at Hartford this fall, he still has plenty of time to prove himself. He has an outside shot as a 2nd pairing guy, but could likely become a very steady bottom pairing guy with a big shot and a nice edge to his game. Not sure how one could say he got worse.

Colorado gave up on Williams for a reason. Another instance of too many posters clinging to the HF ratings system. The kid is probably going to go the route of so many others that had didn't have the head to match the talent.

Gaulton improved only because he managed to play more than 20 games this year. He always had the talent, but it's the injury history that allowed us to take him in a late round.

I'm glad that people take an interest in our prospects, but it's foolish to make claims about everyone regressing when it's clear that's not the case.
Totally right. Mitch got screwed over by a very bad trainer (who has since been replaced) in Erie who misdiagnosed his elbow injury and set him back months. The best thing that could have happened to him was the Rangers medical staff. They have taken very good care of him.

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03-15-2010, 11:05 AM
  #57
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Is that the reason? Or is it because management is incapable of coming up with a comprehensive plan to aid the longterm health of this franchise?
You're right, it is mostly due to incompetent management and I have been really harsh on them about it. The thing is though, NY fans are an impatient bunch, not only in hockey but in the other 3 major sports as well.

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Old
03-15-2010, 11:06 AM
  #58
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would rank our d prospects like this

1. sangs
2. mcd
3. kundratek
4. sauer

1. bobby has to be our #1 propsect. hes been to camp. hes played a few nhl games and hes been in hartford for 2 years. if i were he, i would really focus on my dzone coverage and improve the physical part of my game. with mdz being the goto offensive dman, bobby needs to bring a more well rounded game to contribute. i would look for him to push for a spot in camp in the fall.

2. mcd is 2nd based upon his skill alone. i liken him to a dan girardi type with more natural talent. hes a solid person too, good character guy and leadership skills. a year in hartford should be all he needs to grab a top 4 spot in 2 yrs.

3. kundratek is the wildcard. im a huge fan. this organization needs a stay at home, d first guy and he appears to fit that bill and thus, should have an opportunity. has a great projectable body and a mean streak. his skating with the puck needs to get better but that will come with more minutes and maturity. he could very well be a surprise next season in camp but if not- he may need a year with the pack i certainly i like his chances the year after especially with a year in hartford.

4. sauer needs to stay healthy. if he can, hes a solid if unspectacular version of dan girardi. with the 3 above, im not liking his chances long term.

5. corey potter is a victim of the numbers game and a general lack of development beyond where he is right now.

with staal and mcd fixtures for the next 10 years, and gilroy still developing, the d spots will be scarce. figure one of rozy, redden or girardi not around next fall and you have 1 spot open in camp. not alot of room if you consider we could use a stay at home type right now.

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Old
03-15-2010, 11:13 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
We had a phenomenal group of blueline youth at the start of the year, with people here widely talking about dealing away guys like Sanguinetti, but it doesn't look as good now.
You must be mistaken, because a lot of "in the know" posters assured us earlier in the year that the Rangers pipeline, especially on defense, is the absolute envy of just about every other organization.

Y'all keep sucking on the Sather has got us going in the right direction, finally. It's just around the corner. Again.

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03-15-2010, 11:41 AM
  #60
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speaking of being too young, i wouldn't mind torts putting MDZ on the 3rd pairing with gilroy and limiting both of them to go 10-12 mins a game from the rest of the season.

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03-15-2010, 11:54 AM
  #61
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From the games I have seen of McDonagh he likes to block shots and play physically in the corners. People keep saying Brad Stuart is a nice comparison at his peak, but I think a poor-mans Volchenkov would be a better comparison.

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03-15-2010, 12:16 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
From the games I have seen of McDonagh he likes to block shots and play physically in the corners. People keep saying Brad Stuart is a nice comparison at his peak, but I think a poor-mans Volchenkov would be a better comparison.
Im not saying your wrong but I am amused at how Volchenkov is the new, awesome shiny toy that everyone on here wants and compares everything and everyone with...

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03-15-2010, 12:21 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by rangers4ever2007 View Post
speaking of being too young, i wouldn't mind torts putting MDZ on the 3rd pairing with gilroy and limiting both of them to go 10-12 mins a game from the rest of the season.
I don't know that I would risk that. If they get lit up and both of them lose confidence that is not good.

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03-15-2010, 01:16 PM
  #64
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Im not saying your wrong but I am amused at how Volchenkov is the new, awesome shiny toy that everyone on here wants and compares everything and everyone with...
Volchenkov has been known as an awesome shot blocker who throws big hits and is solid defensively for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng long time.

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03-15-2010, 01:21 PM
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Straw man arguments

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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
And people wonder why we never re-build... it's because fans are so damn impatient and write off players, LET ALONE rookies, after one season.

Is there something in the water here that makes it impossible for people to read what I said instead of what they are imagining I said? Where did I say that they should be written off? I said that players should be ranked lower now than half a year ago, which is true.

If I am wrong, show me how, but don't argue against a straw man.

Your arguments are on par with someone saying, "US is in a recession" and you concluding that the person meant to say that all Americans have starved to death.

Not over-hyping someone is not the same as writing off prospects. There's space between 0 and 100, you know!


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03-15-2010, 01:23 PM
  #66
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With all due respect to Leslie, I'll take the opinion of the dozen who have watched most of Wisconsin's games over the opinion of one person who has probably watched no more than 3, if any at all.
I never said she was the end all, be all. I respect her opinion, but I clearly wrote that her opinion was one of many factors I looked at. I just cited her because it was the easiest thing to find that I could quote.

Please... if you can't argue against someone, don't create a straw man and argue against it. It's just dishonest.

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03-15-2010, 01:26 PM
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I never said she was the end all, be all. I respect her opinion, but I clearly wrote that her opinion was one of many factors I looked at. I just cited her because it was the easiest thing to find that I could quote.

Please... if you can't argue against someone, don't create a straw man and argue against it. It's just dishonest.
Dishonest is forming an opinion about players that you've hardly watched then jumping down peoples throats who disagree with you.

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03-15-2010, 01:27 PM
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Volchenkov has been known as an awesome shot blocker who throws big hits and is solid defensively for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng long time.
Yeah, but he's become one of those "new toys" for many posters here. I'm not accusing anyone in particular, as a lot of people here know their stuff...but a lot of others have just latched onto Volchenkov recently.

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03-15-2010, 01:29 PM
  #69
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Yeah, but he's become one of those "new toys" for many posters here. I'm not accusing anyone in particular, as a lot of people here know their stuff...but a lot of others have just latched onto Volchenkov recently.
When we give him 5 million per, those same people will complain that hes not putting up 50 points.

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03-15-2010, 01:52 PM
  #70
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Here's what I think. Our defense looked a lot more impressive in October than it does right now.
I do agree that the Ranger prospects on Defense are over hyped.... However, I believe there is a good foundation set already with these young players already

Staal: has all the makings of a top pairing shut down defenseman. no doubt

MDZ: if he can just work on his defense to become NHL level, and with his offensive talent he should be a top 4 Power play specialist getting about 40-50 points per season

Girardi- solid NHL stay at home defenseman

Gilroy- shows he can play in the NHL now but I am not sure what he can develop into. He is what 25/26 years old already?? Is there much room for development? I don't know... I think next year is a big year to see what he has at the NHL level

Not sure about Sangs and McD... All indications mention they could be NHL players... Who knows... To me, these players are just prospects rights now where all the NHL teams have these type of players in their system.

Any future All Stars in this bunch?? I think Staal is the best chance to make some All Star appearances..

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03-15-2010, 02:09 PM
  #71
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Any future All Stars in this bunch?? I think Staal is the best chance to make some All Star appearances..
DEL Z !

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03-15-2010, 02:22 PM
  #72
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Not over-hyping someone is not the same as writing off prospects. There's space between 0 and 100, you know!
Quote:
Gilroy: Only 13 points, probably will finish with about 15. Worse than expected and we can no longer regard him as a likely PP #2.
Not sure how that isn't writing him off. The same could be said for some of your other assessments.

What exactly was the purpose behind this thread? Rookies struggle with consistency? The Wolfpack stinks? If you had a point to make, I obviously missed it.

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03-15-2010, 02:26 PM
  #73
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I don't know that I would risk that. If they get lit up and both of them lose confidence that is not good.
i don't think they would on a 10-12 min. ice time per game basis.

but, if they get more than that together as a pairing, then yeah.

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03-15-2010, 02:58 PM
  #74
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Ranger Esq...

not an unfair assessment, but I will ask how much of Sauer, McD and Sangs you have seen this season the formulate an opinion. I ask this is because I'd be interested in knowing more about the seasons they're having compared to last season. I personally have seen zero AHL games this season, which is unusual for me but it's been an unusual season for me.

On the rest...I am not 100% convinced at this point that the Rangers have a top defenseman, nor do they have an elite point guy, although we'll know more about MDZ next season as he's done more than most of us would've expected and has been a joy to watch grow. Gilroy is somewhere between a third pair defenseman and a 7th defenseman. Staal...the jury is still out, but I'm not sure he's a true #1 guy, but he's still young and growing.

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03-15-2010, 02:59 PM
  #75
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msv...

I don't know if I see Staal making the All Star team. Tough for defensive defensemen to get on those teams and if they do he's going to have to be one of the top defensive defensemen in the league.

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