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Flyer fans crying about Dubinsky-Richards beat down

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Old
03-16-2010, 01:37 PM
  #101
Fletch
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Blaze...

I think Dubi thought that Richards may've been head-hunting (on Drury) a bit immediately prior to them throwing down.

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03-16-2010, 01:51 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
But by this logic you can also say that a guy who fights without a visor is stupid as well because he isn't giving himself the advantage.

We are talking about the heat of battle here. And we are also talking about two guys who ARE NOT fighters. If you want to make the case that guys like Shelly, Orr, Cote and Brashear should abide by this "visor" rule then I totally agree with you. They are guys who are out there for 5 minutes a game to do one thing and that's beat the living hell out of each other.

But we are talking about guys like Dubi and Richards who aren't fighters. They are top-6 skill players. Say what you want...but if fighting isn't my primary job, when push comes to shove I am not thinking about taking my helmet off when I am about to get into a fight, I'm thinking about defending myself. Guys like Orr are conditioned to take the helmets off...Dubi, Richards and the like aren't.

You said "if you want to be a fighter, take off the visor." We'll neither of these guys are fighters...they just happened to get into a fight. There is a big difference between being a fighter and being a guy who drops the gloves 4 or 5 times a year. Would you consider Dubi a fighter? Because I wouldn't...hell I wouldn't even consider Avery a fighter.
Actually, I would consider Dubi and Richards fighters. Fighting isn't their primary role, obviously, but they choose to do it.

I think 5+ fights a year is frequently enough that you know they will be dropping the gloves. I'd consider someone with one or two fights over multiple seasons to be non-fighters... once you're dropping the gloves 5+ times each season, I think it's a solid conclusion that you know you fight and expect to fight again in the future.

EDIT: And I think a better distinction between fighter vs. non-fighter is whether a player initiates multiple fights. If you initiate fights, you're a fighter to me. Initiate a fight while you're wearing a visor and your opponent isn't and you're a fighter and a so-called "wuss."

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Old
03-16-2010, 01:57 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Actually, I would consider Dubi and Richards fighters. Fighting isn't their primary role, obviously, but they choose to do it.

I think 5+ fights a year is frequently enough that you know they will be dropping the gloves. I'd consider someone with one or two fights over multiple seasons to be non-fighters... once you're dropping the gloves 5+ times each season, I think it's a solid conclusion that you know you fight and expect to fight again in the future.

EDIT: And I think a better distinction between fighter vs. non-fighter is whether a player initiates the fight. If you initiate a fight, you're a fighter to me. Initiate a fight while you're wearing a visor and your opponent isn't and you're a fighter and a so-called "wuss."
This we can agree on for the most part. However...if I'm pissed and I wanna beat the **** outta someone...I'm not checking for a visor. Know what I mean?

Overall good points and good posts!

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03-16-2010, 02:00 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
This we can agree on for the most part. However...if I'm pissed and I wanna beat the **** outta someone...I'm not checking for a visor. Know what I mean?

Overall good points and good posts!
Just to clarify, after I posted, I changed my edit a bit because think you need to initiate multiple fights for me to consider you a fighter.

I just think of a scenario where there's a really cheap hit, etc. and a guy who otherwise never fights decides to. I wouldn't consider this hypothetical guy a fighter, so I think you need initiate at least a couple fights for me to consider a guy a "fighter."

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03-16-2010, 04:24 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
Again...we live in an era where most of the players who played in the CHL wear visors because they were required to in junior and required to in the AHL. I know you mentioned the 80's and 90's earlier in the thread and thats just silly. It's like comparing apples or oranges. The game and the culture are so different now.

As for not being allowed to fight if you wear a visor...I don't understand that logic. You are saying that if you wear a visor and you go to defend a teammate then you deserve a 2 and a 10 for being a wuss?

And for being a wuss because you wear a visor...I REALLY don't understand that logic. Spare me the macho crap. Guys are hitting and shooting the puck harder and faster than they ever have. In my mind you are crazy NOT to wear a visor. One look at Saku Koivu getting hit right in the eyes with a slapshot several years ago should tell you that.
How many times can you honestly say that a guy with a visor is fighting to protect a teammate?

And I totally disagree with the "harder faster" slapshot comment. Every generation had players who could bring it. In fact, there isnt a single guy in the NHL right now who comes close to Iafrate or Macinnis...

The whole point is that if you decide to wear a visor out of fear for damage to your eyes and surrounding area, then you automatically decide that it isnt your job on the team to do any "protecting" or fighting.

That's the problem with today's soft NHL. Nobody is allowed to be accountable because of lame rules and soft players who cheap shot one another. There is no reason for Ryan Callahan to fight Matt Cooke. There is no reason for Mike Richards and Alex Ovechkin to steamroll players, then hide behind a visor.

I am definitely an old school hockey fan. I hate the way the game has changed. I'll even go further and say that when Domi knocked out Ulf Samuelsson with the cheap shot of the century, I was far from upset regardless of the sweater since Ulf and his visor-wearing pansy ass was going around and clubbing and injuring players for years without any fear of retribution.

I am seriously wondering why Tortarella didnt have Shelly and Prust go after Carcillo in a 3-1 game with under 5 mins to go, or at least challenge him. The fact that Dubinksy -- a top-6 skill player -- was the one to send a message.

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03-16-2010, 04:36 PM
  #106
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I'm old school too, Scipio, but I have no problem with Ovechkin delivering a clean hit and not having to fight afterwards. That's why you emply goons, and perhaps there are rules that can be changed to make them more effective. A guy like Messier, who did his share of dropping the gloves, was able to get away with a heck of a lot. Without guys watching his back, however, I'm not sure how many of his elbows would still be flying.

As for the visor...I don't mind a guy who'd trying to protect his eye from a freak deflection. It's a fast game and things happen - and when guys have had their faces hit with pucks, broken orbitals, etc., they're a bit more conscious. However, if that guy's going to fight, you square off and the first move is to remove his helmet. Heck, I remember Kovalev's first fight in the mid-90s against Dave Gagner. AK took his helmet off to fight right away. That I think is what needs to happen.

At the end of the day, in the Philly game, I think Dubi beating Richards was a great way to end a game against Philly and a great way to pump up teammates. It does set the stage to a very interesting home and home to end the season and hopefully the Rangers are prepared.

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Old
03-16-2010, 04:55 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
How many times can you honestly say that a guy with a visor is fighting to protect a teammate?

And I totally disagree with the "harder faster" slapshot comment. Every generation had players who could bring it. In fact, there isnt a single guy in the NHL right now who comes close to Iafrate or Macinnis...

The whole point is that if you decide to wear a visor out of fear for damage to your eyes and surrounding area, then you automatically decide that it isnt your job on the team to do any "protecting" or fighting.

That's the problem with today's soft NHL. Nobody is allowed to be accountable because of lame rules and soft players who cheap shot one another. There is no reason for Ryan Callahan to fight Matt Cooke. There is no reason for Mike Richards and Alex Ovechkin to steamroll players, then hide behind a visor.

I am definitely an old school hockey fan. I hate the way the game has changed. I'll even go further and say that when Domi knocked out Ulf Samuelsson with the cheap shot of the century, I was far from upset regardless of the sweater since Ulf and his visor-wearing pansy ass was going around and clubbing and injuring players for years without any fear of retribution.

I am seriously wondering why Tortarella didnt have Shelly and Prust go after Carcillo in a 3-1 game with under 5 mins to go, or at least challenge him. The fact that Dubinksy -- a top-6 skill player -- was the one to send a message.
AMEN!

I agree with everything you are saying 110%.

The reason Torts didn't have Shelly or Prust go after after Carcillo in a 3-1 game with under 5 mins to go was b/c he didn't want to fork over $10,000. The instigator rule needs to go!

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Old
03-16-2010, 04:59 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrap View Post
I totally understand "The Code"

But...you have to realize we are now entering an age of the NHL where most of the players who played in the CHL wear visors because that is what they have been required to wear. As much as I hate Richards...I can't really get on him for wearing a visor. It's Dubi choice not to wear one just as its Richards choice to wear one.

I really don't understand the macho thinking of "he wears a visor so he must be a *****".

If I'm fighting a guy the last thing I am thinking of it...oh **** I have a visor on! Especially when my job isn't to fight.
If you're fighting a guy with a visor on you have a damn good chance of cutting the **** out of your hand or possibly breaking something. I've seen a number of fights with ***** ass visor fighters where the guy not wearing one will be very hesitant to even throw a single punch due to the visor. So it does go through their heads because they don't want to **** up their hand on some fool who didn't take his helmet off for the fight.

No one is getting on Richards for wearing a visor. People are on him for not removing his helmet (which he is supposed to do) before the fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken Chaser View Post
Not coming to troll as i'm a flyers fan, this thread was just on the main page as latest updated for our division. And i'm kinda curious about this too, only because in the heat of the game I have to agree i think the last thing on my mind is "oops i have a visor on the people on HFBoards are gonna get on my case for throwing punches..." Players wear visors mostly because they value their health and vision more so than the next, but to each their own. And richards will remove his helmet when he faces someone who he played with and or against in juniors, i'm not quite up to speed on he and dubinky's history prior to the NHL however...just my 2cents, can't wait till the season ending home and home though!
Richards should be removing his helmet to fight anyone. It's a sign of respect for his opponent.

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Old
03-16-2010, 05:00 PM
  #109
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Richards 1 | Dubi 2

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Old
03-16-2010, 05:02 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I'm old school too, Scipio, but I have no problem with Ovechkin delivering a clean hit and not having to fight afterwards.
I have no problem with Ovechkin delivering a clean hit and not having to fight afterwards but the problem with Ovechkin is that he far too often does not deliver "clean hits". He consistently leaves his feet when he attempts to check the opposing player. This is called charging not a "clean hit".

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03-16-2010, 05:21 PM
  #111
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Looked fine to me. These things happen when you fight people...

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03-16-2010, 05:51 PM
  #112
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On a second note, this is what actual hockey fights are all about. I am personally not interested in hockey fights at all, but these kind of fights... anyone can see these kind of fights are special.

It's not some staged goon fight between two guys who have it as an ordinary, routine job to jab at eachother with smiling faces. These fights are between guys who usually don't fight at all, but now they do, because they don't like eachother on the ice, they are taking eachother one for something bigger than the sake of just fighting. These fights are passion fights, like Lecavalier vs Iginla in the playoffs. Or Shanny vs Huggy Bear. Or Straka defending Jagr against Ruutu in the 06 olympics. Or now Dubi vs Richards, as payback for the Carcillo vs Gabo fight.

This is why goons are getting outdated and I'm all for it. Fighting ability is just an intangible, not something you should be able to live on in NHL. Determination and passion comes from the heart and that's what hockey is about.

This is why Shanny vs Huggy was the fight of a previous season and this was the fight of this season. Not Orr nailing Fedoruk or Huggy hugging someone to death.
Chimp sums it up for me perfectly. This is the kind of fight that is an integral part of hockey, not some meaningless goon fight between 4th liners. Your team gets more out of this than any fight between goons. These two genuinely dislike each other, and you can see it in their confrontations.

I believe in the "code" of not hitting guys when they are down, but I feel it is more for the staged goonery than two top 6 middleweights who are fighting spontaniously because they genuinely dislike each other. These kinds of fights guys get caught up in the moment, unlike the goons who get paid to just fight.

Richards needs to lose the visor or all "code" goes out the window.
Both Richards and the Flyers had this coming in a big way, **** them.

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Old
03-17-2010, 12:39 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Flyer fans crying about Dubinsky-Richards beat down http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...-shows-lack-of


Funny, not one Flyers fan brings up the fact that Douc**B*g Dan, was throwing them at Gaborik as Gabby was going down. And Gabbey was basically on his back when Danny Boy threw his last punch. Wonder why that is?

Not to mention that Douc**B*g Dan, a goon and that's all he is, purposely charged Gabby (the Rangers best player and only real star) from behind, went after him, started the fight and threw punches at a player who everyone knows is not a fighter.

Of course that will be ignored or spin-jobbed by the Flyers fans.

I love how Flyers fans cry about this stuff. The Flyers, an organization who has been and continues to be the dirtiest in the league. An organization that used tom have a players that actually pulled other players' hair during fights, cross checks to the neck and head and other cowardly cheap thuggery. An organization who's fans have proudly celebrated and proudly beat their chests in approval and boasting of all of this.

Suddenly, they are victims and they're blabbing about codes?

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Old
03-17-2010, 02:25 PM
  #114
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Habs fan here, I come in peace.

I think it is incredibly hypocritical of Flyer's fans to talk about Richards being done wrong by. Richards continued dirty play has forfeited his right to any freebies.

It is just sour grapes because he came out looking bad, really bad.

I have always thought that Richards played with an edge, but after the Booth hit... I just label him a cheap shotter. He deserves EVERYTHING he gets from here on in.

PILE ON, boys!

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Old
03-17-2010, 05:06 PM
  #115
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This is a team that saw no problem with Carcillo fighting Gaborik... cry me a river, Richards had his ass handed to him by Dub, grow up and move on

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Old
03-21-2010, 12:49 PM
  #116
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Flyer fans crying about Dubinsky-Richards beat down

Flyer fans need to stop with the code of conduct arguement. Where is the code in this fight? Notice Carcillo throwing numerous punches while Slater is prone on the ice. So stop with bashing Dubinsky, Richards was on his knees and should have gotten back into the fight. Carcillo is a punk.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/93507

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