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Old
03-16-2010, 06:10 PM
  #1
habs1988
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Hornqvist break out

What do you think of Hornqvist ?

I've heard he was really bad during Olympics..but did it affect his play lately?

What do you think he could turn into?

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03-16-2010, 06:37 PM
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03-16-2010, 08:45 PM
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I Will Son
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Hornqvist didnt play bad during the olympics at all. He did take a huge dirty hit which may of affected his game but I dont think it did. He is playing great in our last 4 games. He was never playing bad just other people started putting the puck in the net, lines were getting switched up, and he just had the unfortunate luck that the puck didnt go in for a while.

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03-16-2010, 11:46 PM
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worstfaceoffmanever
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Hornqvist doesn't play the kind of game that works with the high skill level in Olympic hockey.

He has been excellent this season. Even though the points haven't been coming for him like they were in December/January, he's still going to the net and doing whatever he can to generate offense.

My only worry is that this is a flash in the pan season, and next year he'll score like seven goals...

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03-17-2010, 12:32 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Hornqvist doesn't play the kind of game that works with the high skill level in Olympic hockey.

He has been excellent this season. Even though the points haven't been coming for him like they were in December/January, he's still going to the net and doing whatever he can to generate offense.

My only worry is that this is a flash in the pan season, and next year he'll score like seven goals...
I sort of feel this as well. I'd be weary of locking him up long term. If he can come close to repeating, then lock him up.

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Old
03-17-2010, 12:40 AM
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nine_inch_fang
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dirty front of the net type goals aren't really flash in the pan though. if you can score goals that way it is repeatable. granted you need the right kind of line mates but it's not like he's scoring goals like An_y _elmore did.

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Old
03-17-2010, 12:44 AM
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CoreySzn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Hornqvist doesn't play the kind of game that works with the high skill level in Olympic hockey.

He has been excellent this season. Even though the points haven't been coming for him like they were in December/January, he's still going to the net and doing whatever he can to generate offense.

My only worry is that this is a flash in the pan season, and next year he'll score like seven goals...
That's what I'm worried about, too. However, for this year, he's been exactly what the Predators needed by providing as much offense as he can. Could be a huge factor to them making the playoffs. The Preds are my second team, so I hope he keeps it up.

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Old
03-17-2010, 08:07 AM
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Jarnberg
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I really don't understand the flash in the pan statement. He broke Forsberg's rookie scoring record a few years ago. Hornqvist has been bounced around on many lines this year due to his versatility and not his play. His style of play doesn't really lead me to believe he's a one and done.

So far his only struggles have been last season, where he had to adjust to NA, and the Olympics, where for some guys its harder to adjust, especially younger guys. From what I saw, his line wasn't very good, but that wasn't his fault.

He's still only 23 by the way.

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Old
03-17-2010, 02:52 PM
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Worst – I’m not surprised you are worried about Hörnqvist being a flash in the pan based on your assessment of his play last season. You didn’t think he could score at the NHL level and you thought he was really bad in the defensive end. And I remember, before or at the beginning of training camp last fall, you expressed the opinion that he should or would end up playing in Sweden because his game wasn’t good enough for the NHL. Having held those views, I guess it makes sense that you might still have doubts, despite that you think he has played excellent this year.

As an aside, of all of your criticism of Patric’s play last year, I particularly never understood your assessment of his defensive play. Granted, like everyone, he made some defensive mistakes, but, overall, I didn’t think he was a defensive liability. In his last 14 games with the Preds, while playing in more of a defensive role on the third and fourth lines, only one goal was scored while he was on the ice. With the Ads, I heard Lane Lambert speak about Hörnqvist four times. Each time he described Hörnqvist as being defensively responsible. The last of the four was when Patric was near the end of his eight game goal scoring streak. Asked about the streak, Lambert spent about 5 seconds saying he was happy about the streak then turned his response to what he said he really liked about Hörnqvist – which was that Hörnqvist works hard and is responsible. He talked about how Hörnqvist tracks on the transition from offense to defense as an example – concluding that you are not good at tracking unless you are willing to work hard.

No doubt, Patric has things to work on. But Trotz has said that one of Patric’s strength is his desire to learn. Poile, Fenton, Trotz, Lambert – each have lauded his work ethic. Could he be a flash in the pan? Sure and only time and Patric can tell the story. But when I look at a 23 year old who was drafted last, who is praised for his work ethic and his desire to learn, who has scored more than 20 goals in a season in the SEL, the AHL (part of a regular season and 11 playoff games) and the NHL, who Lambert described as a complete player who is defensively responsible, and who Trotz said has Predator written all over him and is not just one-dimensional . . . Well, instead of worrying about him being a flash in the pan, I look forward to the future. I look forward to watching him continue to grow, improve, and round out his game. Couple that with looking forward to watching Mr. Wilson continue to develop (I’m not worrying about him being a flash in the pan, either) – and you have one Preds fan who is excited about the next few years. Assuming, that is, Poile re-signs Hörnqvist.

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Old
03-17-2010, 03:33 PM
  #10
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I'm not concerned with Horns being a "flash in the pan". He's proved, at minimum, he is a valuable role player, able to bring grit and hustle to a team with a half *** it mentality (on most nights). My concern is will DP continue to sign players on potential and offer him a five year deal for $4.5 mil.

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Old
03-17-2010, 03:46 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
dirty front of the net type goals aren't really flash in the pan though. if you can score goals that way it is repeatable. granted you need the right kind of line mates but it's not like he's scoring goals like An_y _elmore did.
But this is precisely why I said that. Patric NEEDS good linemates to be productive. He doesn't create chances on his own. So if his linemates are struggling, Horny won't be able to do much about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goalscorer View Post
I'm not concerned with Horns being a "flash in the pan". He's proved, at minimum, he is a valuable role player, able to bring grit and hustle to a team with a half *** it mentality (on most nights). My concern is will DP continue to sign players on potential and offer him a five year deal for $4.5 mil.
If you are not concerned about him repeating this years production, then why are you hesitant to lock him up long term?

Horny isn't a "go to" guy, but he's the perfect complementary player. I'd sign him to a 2-3 year deal for now. See if he can keep up his aggressive play over the longterm, while staying healthy. These types of players tend to get injured often. We've been lucky so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
I really don't understand the flash in the pan statement. He broke Forsberg's rookie scoring record a few years ago. Hornqvist has been bounced around on many lines this year due to his versatility and not his play. His style of play doesn't really lead me to believe he's a one and done.
I'm not sure what you mean exactly by versatile, but I would not consider Hornqvist versatile at all. He's pretty one-dimensional. He gets shuffled a lot because when his linemates struggle he is guaranteed to struggle as well because he doesn't create chances on his own.

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Old
03-17-2010, 04:20 PM
  #12
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he'll get his goals playing the way he does.....linemates or not. the analogy to delmore was more about kimmo setting him up just like zidlicky. they had one of the best pp quarterbacks setting them up hornqvist is getting points playing with lesser linemates

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Old
03-17-2010, 04:23 PM
  #13
goalscorer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post
If you are not concerned about him repeating this years production, then why are you hesitant to lock him up long term?
My point is that if Horns turns into a 30 goal scorer year in and year out for us, Great(better than great actually). If not, he is still a valuable piece in the Trotz system. We cant say he's a consistant 30 goal scorer and we cant say he's just a role player. So until we can accurately label him, I dont want him signed to a high dollar, long term contract.

I do want him signed though. I agree a 2-3 year deal, decent increase in pay and let him get a blockbuster when he continues to be our leading scorer. But I see DP saying to himself, "here is the top six forward everyone wants me to aquire, lets pay him at/more than I pay Legs/Erat/Sully since his stats are better than theirs. Its only fair."

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03-17-2010, 04:25 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goalscorer View Post
My point is that if Horns turns into a 30 goal scorer year in and year out for us, Great(better than great actually). If not, he is still a valuable piece in the Trotz system. We cant say he's a consistant 30 goal scorer and we cant say he's just a role player. So until we can accurately label him, I dont want him signed to a high dollar, long term contract.

I do want him signed though. I agree a 2-3 year deal, decent increase in pay and let him get a blockbuster when he continues to be our leading scorer. But I see DP saying to himself, "here is the top six forward everyone wants me to aquire, lets pay him at/more than I pay Legs/Erat/Sully since his stats are better than theirs. Its only fair."
Yeah I agree with all this. Guess I misunderstood your wording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
he'll get his goals playing the way he does.....linemates or not. the analogy to delmore was more about kimmo setting him up just like zidlicky. they had one of the best pp quarterbacks setting them up hornqvist is getting points playing with lesser linemates
I guess this is just where we disagree. I think Horns will struggle if his linemates struggle. He's not able to create many scoring chances by himself.

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03-17-2010, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post
I guess this is just where we disagree. I think Horns will struggle if his linemates struggle. He's not able to create many scoring chances by himself.
I agree. He isn't (or I haven't seen) him be able to blow by backchecking D. I haven't really seen him dangle through anyone, and when you either shoot as soon as you cross the blue-line, or put a shot straight into the goalies chest, you're not going to get anywhere. That's not to say he hasn't improved, but he does have a ways to go.

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Old
03-17-2010, 04:38 PM
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I think he's a great complementary player. A guy like Holmstrom who can fill out a scoring line nicely with his battling and ability in front of the net. But he doesn't have the ability to carry a line offensively on a consistent basis.

2 year contract: 2-2.5m a year. A "prove it" contract. See Peverly
5 year contract: ~3.5m a year. (we'll give you a bigger contract, but you have to give us more years). See Travis Zajac, but i think Zajac is more talented.
10 year contract: ~4 million. Like Franzen, but I also think Franzen is more talent.

The problem is he's going to point to comps like Lewgand and Dumont

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03-17-2010, 04:47 PM
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what calibre linemates does Horqvist have??? do you really think his linemates can get worse?

No he's not a "carry the puck into the zone" type of players and he's not a pre-injury Sullivan but a player with his nose for the puck around the net, quick reactions, tenaciousness in the corners, work ethic, and defensive awareness will get goals....too many players over the years in the NHL have proven that.

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03-17-2010, 05:39 PM
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Hornqvist is versatile because the type of goals he scores doesn't depend on particular skillsets... the guy scores by banging in rebounds and crashing the net. He's just as dependent on others as any other forward on our team.

He has been moved around alot because he's able to score on any line, because he pays the price in each zone, and because he isn't a defensive liability.

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03-17-2010, 07:05 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Hornqvist is versatile because the type of goals he scores doesn't depend on particular skillsets... the guy scores by banging in rebounds and crashing the net. He's just as dependent on others as any other forward on our team.

He has been moved around alot because he's able to score on any line, because he pays the price in each zone, and because he isn't a defensive liability.
Isn't "scores by banging in rebounds and crashing the net" the same thing as saying he "depends on a particular skillset" ?

I guess your definition of versatile is different from mine. Only being useful by scoring goals by crashing/screening the net is the exact opposite of versatile in my book. Versatile players play the PK, forecheck, backcheck, make plays, shoot well, etc... aka a little bit of everything. Horns does one thing. Luckily he does that one thing very very well.

lol, it seems like I'm bashing Hornqvist here, which I am not at all. He's my favorite Predator currently. I just have to see him repeat this year before I lock him up long term. But this is simply a rule of thumb that applies to most players.

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Old
03-17-2010, 07:47 PM
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Hornqvist excels on lines that throw the puck on net a lot. The more pucks to the net that are generated, the more goal scoring opportunities he gets...even Hornqvist himself throws the puck at net a lot to generate rebound opportunities for himself and his linemates to pounce on...

Patric has his limitations defensively, but by no means is a liability any more than Sullivan is...Hornqvist needs to fill out his frame a little more to strengthen his game along the wall, but hustles and shows on every shift that he is just out there happy to be playing at the NHL level making a living playing the game he loves. I've never seen him break off on a backcheck or blow the zone ahead of the puck either. He is smart about being where he needs to be and his limitations defensively simply result from his current skill limitations.

Hornqvist has a lot of room to grow and is a very dedicated individual. Look at the improvement we saw this past summer alone when Patric was able to sit back, relax, and re-assess. He figured out what he needed to do to succeed at the NHL level and has opened a lot of eyes this season because of his hard work last summer. He'll do the same this summer and the summer after that, etc and I doubt he'll ever be satisfied as long as he is playing that his game is complete and he decide he doesn't have to keep working hard.

I'm open to a shorter term deal and a "prove it past one year" attitude, but wouldn't be upset if he signed a 2-3 year deal for a reasonable salary either...

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Old
03-17-2010, 08:41 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post
Isn't "scores by banging in rebounds and crashing the net" the same thing as saying he "depends on a particular skillset" ?

I guess your definition of versatile is different from mine. Only being useful by scoring goals by crashing/screening the net is the exact opposite of versatile in my book. Versatile players play the PK, forecheck, backcheck, make plays, shoot well, etc... aka a little bit of everything. Horns does one thing. Luckily he does that one thing very very well.
Sorry, looking back at my post, I should have explained it better. I agree with your definition of versatile.. the way I was trying to use it was in terms of being able to score on any line. And with the skill set, I mean from his forwards, not his own skill set.

Basically both points were to the tune of him being able to score on any line, assuming those guys can throw the puck at the net.

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Old
03-18-2010, 10:10 AM
  #22
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does anyone know if Hornqvist has arbitration rights?

if he doesnt, I expect a 2 or 3 year deal that will be for decent but not ridiculous money, and then he will come off the deal still and RFA (unless they lower the age in the next CBA) and either get big bucks long term like erat did or he'll go away..

if he has arb rights and a hardball agent, things could get interesting... in a bad way...

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Old
03-20-2010, 05:26 PM
  #23
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I thought he looked good at the Olympics although more suited to the dump & corner work game than free flowing style. He does need linemates that can pass and/or shooters to cash in on his crease style.

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Old
03-26-2010, 08:20 AM
  #24
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4 more goals to tie the Predators record for goals in a season.

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Old
03-26-2010, 11:29 AM
  #25
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Hornqvist wash picked 230 overall i'm imprissed with him.

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