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Old
03-18-2010, 12:40 PM
  #76
Shareefruck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Wow. Slap in the face to Raymond much?
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
What about having to earn your spot?

Raymond's gotta be pissed. He's worked hard to improve this season.
He's gotta be a pretty big drama queen to be pissed about that. The 3rd line needed his help-- it's not an insult, it's a team game. And he did have a bad slump, so it's not like this just came out of the blue.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Demitra - Kesler - Grabner
Raymond - Wellwood - Hansen

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Old
03-18-2010, 12:43 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Raymond's ''slump'' is a result of being shuffled down the depth chart with the return of Demitra. He hasnt played poorly. It is good that it will lower his cap hit in negotiations, but much like Brule in Edmonton...Raymon'ds gotta be pissed.
I disagree. Raymond has still had chances but he's not burying them like he was before. If Mikael Samuelsson could take a third line 'demotion' in stride than Raymond really has no business doing anything but trying to play better and earn more ice time.

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Old
03-18-2010, 12:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
Raymond really has no business doing anything but trying to play better and earn more ice time.
Raymond or Grabner?

Who has to earn their ice time?

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Old
03-18-2010, 12:57 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
He's gotta be a pretty big drama queen to be pissed about that. The 3rd line needed his help-- it's not an insult, it's a team game. And he did have a bad slump, so it's not like this just came out of the blue.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Demitra - Kesler - Grabner
Raymond - Wellwood - Hansen
He wouldn't pull an SOB and ***** about it to management but he's gotta be thinkin 'what the ****' to himself.

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Old
03-18-2010, 12:58 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Raymond or Grabner?

Who has to earn their ice time?
I'm not sure that's entirely fair...Raymond-Wellwood-Hansen has been a very effective line, and Vigneault not "promoting" one of them to Samuelsson's spot is not a slap in the face to any of them, but a compliment to the fact that they have been gelling together and formed an effective trio, IMO.

AV has opted not to mess with the chemistry that is there and will slot Grabner into the spot on Kesler's line. That's my read on the situation, anyway.

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Old
03-18-2010, 01:00 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I'm not sure that's entirely fair...Raymond-Wellwood-Hansen has been a very effective line, and Vigneault not "promoting" one of them to Samuelsson's spot is not a slap in the face to any of them, but a compliment to the fact that they have been gelling together and formed an effective trio, IMO.

AV has opted not to mess with the chemistry that is there and will slot Grabner into the spot on Kesler's line. That's my read on the situation, anyway.
Hey if Grabs plays like he did during his stint earlier in the season than its a great move. Just a sign of disrespect to Raymond, thats all.

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Old
03-18-2010, 01:05 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Raymond or Grabner?

Who has to earn their ice time?
Grabner's only here because of injury and you want to put call ups in the best position to succeed. If he doesn't perform, he won't stay on that line.

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Old
03-18-2010, 01:12 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Hey if Grabs plays like he did during his stint earlier in the season than its a great move. Just a sign of disrespect to Raymond, thats all.
I don't know if its a sign of disrespect, but one thing I've always appreciated from coaching staffs is when they (to a certain extent) make players work for their ice time. Promoting based on merit, especially with young players is the way to go imo.

I agree Raymond has looked good with Wellwood and Hansen, but he's scored 20 some odd goals with Kesler this season.

Its not as if Grabner has been lighting the world on fire in Manitoba. I haven't seen one glowing report from the last few weeks from Manitoba...

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Old
03-18-2010, 01:23 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Hey if Grabs plays like he did during his stint earlier in the season than its a great move. Just a sign of disrespect to Raymond, thats all.
I really don't think so.

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Old
03-18-2010, 01:25 PM
  #85
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I really don't think so.
No you're right the guy with 15 goals in the AHL deserves top 6 minutes over the guy with 47 points in the NHL.

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Old
03-18-2010, 01:53 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
No you're right the guy with 15 goals in the AHL deserves top 6 minutes over the guy with 47 points in the NHL.
what line a player starts a game in is irrelevant to their overall role on the team. Let's wait and see where the icetimes finish before suggesting that Raymond is getting the short-end of the stick here.

He could very well be on the 3rd line now to help them get going - and they have... the 3rd line has been a lot better since Raymond arrived there and his presence there could be seen as a promotion, not a demotion like most people here are seeing.

Could it be possible that AV went to Raymond and said that our 3rd line is struggling and he needs him to put some jump back in that line? Is that seen as a slap on the face to Raymond? He was a supplementary piece on the Kesler line, but could be the key player on that 3rd line.

And then there's overall icetime. Raymond is still on the PP unit, still getting PK time... overall his icetime should be higher than Grabner's regardless of where they are playing at ES.

At the end of the day, moving from the 2nd line to the 3rd line could very well be a promotion for Raymond - being rewarded for his good play by getting more responsibility overall - going from a 3rd piece on the 2nd line to the top piece on the 3rd line, and if his overall icetime is still there - which it should be with the PP and PK duties he still gets, then there's even less of a concern that he's being pushed back with Grabner moving in.

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Old
03-18-2010, 01:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
No you're right the guy with 15 goals in the AHL deserves top 6 minutes over the guy with 47 points in the NHL.
One thing that I'm picking up about this team, and I'm hopeful that I'm right, is that they're coming together well -- and a big part of that is understanding and accepting your roles and responsibilities.

That means that Shane O'Brien is less likely to pout when he rides the pine for a couple of games, and Mason Raymond is going to be able to live with the 3rd line for a while. For Raymond specifically, I actually think he's providing a really valuable ingredient on the 3rd line with Wellwood and Hansen -- the wingers' speed has made that line way more dangerous than when Glass and Bernier were on it and that's balancing out our attack nicely. Plus, although Raymond was benched in the 3rd period of the game where he made the terrible give away, AV has consistently praised his effort and I think he gets where he stands.

To outsiders -- especially the media -- it may seem like this guy's gruntled and that guy's not, but it seems to me that for any team to have lasting success, they really have to buy into the team concept, and lately it looks like the Canucks are going in that direction.

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Old
03-18-2010, 08:54 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
No you're right the guy with 15 goals in the AHL deserves top 6 minutes over the guy with 47 points in the NHL.
Either way, calling it a "sign of disrespect" is just over-dramatizing the whole thing. Hockey isn't something where you necessarily load up your best lines with your best players for the best results-- if dropping Raymond down to help the 3rd line and giving Grabner a shot on the second line helps the team, then that's how the lines should be configured.

It's 'unfortunate' for Raymond, if you even want to call it that, but it sure as hell isn't disrespectful. If he's offended by it, I would question his character and how much of a team-guy he really is.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:41 AM
  #89
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Looks like Samuelsson may be back sooner than expected per Botchford:
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Samuelsson's recovery going well. Doubt he'll be out 3 weeks. May not even be two.
http://twitter.com/BotchonCanucks/status/10809477807

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:49 AM
  #90
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Great news as long as he's 100%. A re-aggravation that knocks him out of commission through the first round would be an awful blow.

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:50 AM
  #91
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Awesome!
Now if we could just get some good news on Willie Mitchell...

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Old
03-21-2010, 03:53 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
No you're right the guy with 15 goals in the AHL deserves top 6 minutes over the guy with 47 points in the NHL.
15 goals in 38 games, keep in mind. Not bad, but not really a world beater in production.

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Old
03-21-2010, 04:28 AM
  #93
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Maybe Mitchell pulls an Erik Cole and gets back in for game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals.

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Old
03-21-2010, 04:30 AM
  #94
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I've given up hope on getting Mitchell back. I don't think it's as bad as Lilja but really, you just never know. Lilja was out almost a calendar year with his concussion symptoms. Concussions like Mitchell's, Savard's and Lilja really scare me. There is no timeline for these, could be a week, could be never. When you're ready, you're ready.
Remember Jason Allison? His PCS was from a concussion suffered during a slightly aggressive crosscheck causing whiplash, not even a direct blow to the head and missed over 2 1/2 years (although one was the lockout year).

A concussion is a brain injury and you simply do not know when or if you will recover. Until the symptoms disappear and you recover completely, playing puts your life in jeopardy.

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Old
03-25-2010, 03:57 PM
  #95
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Botchford update on Samuelsson:
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Getting closer. Skated on his own yesterday. My guess would be April 1 in LA RT @bh_ Any update on samuelson?
http://twitter.com/BotchonCanucks/status/11038077772

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Old
03-25-2010, 04:01 PM
  #96
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Good stuff.

Miss Sammy shooting from every angle.

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Old
03-25-2010, 04:18 PM
  #97
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I miss sammy big time out there

That being said, I hope grabner stays up

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Old
03-25-2010, 04:34 PM
  #98
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Great news.

Definitely a guy you don't miss until he's gone (just ask Detroit). I've noticed a large hole in our top six without him (even before Demo was out).

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Old
03-25-2010, 05:21 PM
  #99
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With the way Grabner is playing I have no doubt AV is drooling over the new line combinations he could make once Demitra and Samuelsson return.

And while I won't argue that both Demitra and Samuelsson are better than Grabner, that does not mean Grabner should go back to the AHL.

Sedin/Sedin/Burrows
Demitra/Welwood/Samuelsson
Raymond/Kesler/Grabner
Whatevs.

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Old
03-25-2010, 05:51 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lush View Post
With the way Grabner is playing I have no doubt AV is drooling over the new line combinations he could make once Demitra and Samuelsson return.

And while I won't argue that both Demitra and Samuelsson are better than Grabner, that does not mean Grabner should go back to the AHL.

Sedin/Sedin/Burrows
Demitra/Welwood/Samuelsson
Raymond/Kesler/Grabner
Whatevs.
Sedin/Sedin/Burrows
Demitra/Welwood/Samuelsson
Raymond/Kesler/Grabner

+

Hansen-Johnson-Bernier

Possibility.

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