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Old
03-19-2010, 08:03 PM
  #126
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we need to get rid of the "losers" and the guys that just want their paycheck and could care less if the team wins or not.

get rid of:
o'sullivan (hes a ****ing disaster and a cancer)
moreau (obviously)
souray (so long, pretty boy!)
nilson (loser attitude)
cogs (need the draft pick to get jack campbell)
gilbert (just really absolutaly pathetic)
pisani (was i the only one that realised as soon as he came back from injury we really started to loose)
comrie (go ******* duff)

guys we need to build around:
ganger
hemsky
WHITNEY "C" NEXT YEAR
smid
potulny (mehh, hes a solid third liner)
chorney/peckham
brule

blow the team up, keep all the guys who try to keep a positive and winning attitude on and off the ice and we can rebuild from there.


Last edited by dionysios*: 03-19-2010 at 08:05 PM. Reason: i didnt mean to put johnson
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Old
03-19-2010, 08:13 PM
  #127
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^^^

Did you really just call Souray a "pretty boy"?

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03-19-2010, 08:16 PM
  #128
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^^^

Did you really just call Souray a "pretty boy"?
I fear he did. He seems to like that 'ganger' guy though.

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Old
03-19-2010, 09:02 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
^^^

Did you really just call Souray a "pretty boy"?
well my sister always calls him hot, and i was just watching seinfeld when newman says "so long, pretty boy!" so i put two and two together and that =

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Old
03-20-2010, 04:31 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Dorian2 View Post
To all the people that were cursing about this trade, has anyone changed their mind about Whitney? This is the type of attitude that this team needs. I don't know if it is specific players, but whoever they are, they should be gone...Gagner included
Pretty sure its the veterans like Moreau, Pisani, Horcoff, and a few others as Pat Quinn has called them out several times this year. They are the ones running the dressing room, not a 20 year old kid. Get a grip on yourself before you start blaming this on Gagner.

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03-20-2010, 04:47 AM
  #131
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I didn't watch the game tonight but I just saw his celebration after scoring in the highlights and it was awesome. We need more of that enthusiasm.

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03-20-2010, 09:16 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I didn't watch the game tonight but I just saw his celebration after scoring in the highlights and it was awesome. We need more of that enthusiasm.
I love how he looked right at the crowd and yelled. I really think there's a leader there.

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03-22-2010, 12:01 AM
  #133
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I think you're looking to pin Whitney to the stake here and in the process, are trying way too hard to make a mountain out of a molehill. For the record, where were you when Moreau threw the youth on this team under the bus? When he threw the young goaltenders under the bus? When he absolved himself from all responsibility?

Whitney merely stated the obvious instead of continuing to ignore the problems that plague this current iteration of the roster. I'm surprised anyone has a problem with it, but it seems that only a vocal minority are against his comments so I'm not sure you have too much of a foot to stand on.
I don't have an issue with the nature of the comments, necessarily. I take issue with the fact that Whitney is commenting on things that he has no experience with. He hasn't walked a mile in the shoes of an Oiler. He only played 5 or 6 games when he made those comments. He has no right to say those things when he hasn't been here all season. He wasn't here for our 1 win in 20 games, he has no idea how crushing that might have been for certain players. He has no right to come out and say that the other players on this team shouldn't feel the way they currently feel. For all he knows, that kind of losing streak might have gotten to him to, and he could be just as depressed as the rest of the players right now.

Not only that, but he's not the captain, or a coach, or a person within the organization with the authority to say those things. If he was in a position of authority, I wouldn't be against these comments. It's not the new guy's place to call out his team.

Whitney isn't some veteran who's seen it all over the course of his long and prominent career. That would make him a person with authority. He's only ever played for one losing team, in his rookie season with Pittsburgh. He's played for a winning Pittsburgh, then a winning Anaheim, then came to a losing Oilers and says there's no excuse to feel down when you are losing? What, exactly, does Whitney know about losing in the NHL? I'll say again, he has no authority to call this team out and say they have a "loser" attitude, when he's never really had the opportunity to walk a mile in their shoes.

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I don't think that a fan like you or I has any business deciding who or what should make a player a potential candidate for the captaincy. Please leave that to those in charge who spend time around the other players and can judge their persona where it matters, in the locker room. It is not for you to say whether or not his comments should have been privately made after this organization has been stuck in neutral for the past 4 years.

This team right now is a loser. Maybe they need to hear it over and over again because the truth hurts. If the team has such a fragile psyche as it stands then they really shouldn't be professional athletes. Don't know if you've ever played professional sports but nobody likes to be a loser and when they realize that's what they are, well, you strive to become a winner. There is no harm done here and once again you're making a mountain out a molehill.
You and I can agree to disagree, but don't tell me I have no business posting my opinion, then proceed to post your own.

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So what's your opinion on Ethan Moreau? Because his entire captaincy has been one utter disaster and he is somebody that I'm sure almost EVERY NHL team would keep their youth away from considering he has proven that...

A) He has no ability to take responsibility for his actions on the ice or in the dressing room

B) He will not hesitate in shifting the blame elsewhere and blaming the youth on the team but absolving himself and other certain veterans from it in the same breath

C) He can't choose his words carefully when talking about the paying fans who supply his salary

D) He is selfish and his 10 cent brain displays itself brilliantly on the ice when he takes silly penalty after silly penalty after silly penalty

E) The teams attitude noticeably changes when his cancerous persona is in close proximity to them.

The sooner the cancer gets cut out the better. Who could have imagined that Ethan Moreau would go down as the worst captain in Oilers history 3 or 4 years ago.
You know, I hear this "Moreau sells out his teammates" line all the time. Where is the proof? I went to the Oilers website and searched the videos with the key words "Ethan Moreau." Every single interview, Moreau had criticism, and also positives, to say about the team. He speaks again and again about how he feels the team prepares the best that they can, and it's hard to put a finger on what exactly goes wrong in the games. He states, over and over again, that he feels proud of the level of compete and preparation that the Oilers have before the games. He continually compliments the team.

What he does not do in even one of the interviews I watched while performing that search, is throw other players under the bus. Maybe he spoke out to the media -once or twice- in a fashion that offended you. But there is tons of proof online, in the form of the videos on the Oilers website, that proves that he regularly speaks to the media in a very professional manner, and doesn't sell out his teammates.

You making the claim that he continually does this is downright absurd. Watch the pre-game, post-game, and off-day interviews for yourself. Provide proof that he's selfish, that he can't choose his words carefully, or that he sells out the young players "without hesitation." That's all hyberbole, or downright false.

As to the statement that you bolded yourself, that is nothing but your opinion and, even if true, is impossible to prove. I see no reason to make such a bold claim when it can't be proven. Are you trying to blame the lack of success on this organization on Ethan Moreau alone? What inside information do you have that suggests that Moreau has never been a good captain in any year of his captaincy, that he's been a bad leader in the years that he's been a part of this team? Not just that, but you need to justify how it's been a complete disaster, since you chose those words.

In regards to your point "E", we have looked just fine lately with Ethan Moreau in the lineup, and have won 2 games in a row, against tough teams (SJ and Detroit.) Perhaps we looked better after the trade deadline because guys no longer felt the pressure of possibly being traded? Perhaps new people in the lineup, who haven't been around to experience the depression, infused the team with new life? Perhaps you are talking out of our ass, because the team didn't suddenly start to look like complete crap when Moreau rejoined the lineup?

-JH.

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Old
03-22-2010, 12:58 AM
  #134
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It may be refreshing now, to hear him be so outspoken. This is after a handful of games. But can't you imagine - if this is his habit - that it starts to wear thin on his teammates? God forbid next season we have extended bouts of losing, and after each loss, what if Mr. Whitney is out telling it "like it is", pointing out how the forwards are turning over the puck and costing us games. Wouldn't take long before he's looked on as a pariah in the room, not a leader.

I remember the great captains Mess, Gretz, Smith and I don't recall them ever singling out people after a loss, at least not to the press. Mess was legendary for handling it inside the room.

Aren't the basic tenets "win as a team, lose as a team" and "what goes on in the dressing room stays in the dressing room?" Seems like Whitney is messing with those rules a bit.

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Old
03-22-2010, 02:47 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by John Hancock View Post
You know, I hear this "Moreau sells out his teammates" line all the time. Where is the proof?
Oilers post-game vs. Columbus, 1/8/2010 he throws Dubbie under the bus.

I remember back just after the trade deadline you said you would be shocked if Moreau missed any games, and he was a scratch 4 in a row.

I don't know why you're defending this guy. This thing about you going all out searching for Moreau saying anything bad doesn't ring true to me. It took me only about 3 minutes to find that, and that includes Flash crashing my browser when I tried the first time.

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Old
03-22-2010, 03:47 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Oilers post-game vs. Columbus, 1/8/2010 he throws Dubbie under the bus.

I remember back just after the trade deadline you said you would be shocked if Moreau missed any games, and he was a scratch 4 in a row.

I don't know why you're defending this guy. This thing about you going all out searching for Moreau saying anything bad doesn't ring true to me. It took me only about 3 minutes to find that, and that includes Flash crashing my browser when I tried the first time.
First, he had an injury that caused him to miss those games, which we can't just assume was a lie. If the management said he was injured, we have to believe the organization without proof to the contrary. At least, I'm not in the habit of believing conspiracy theories.

Second, Moreau doesn't sell out Dubnyk in that interview. He actually talks about the inability of the forwards to give the necessary offense to support the defense and goaltenders. He doesn't blame the goaltending. I'm not sure why you interpreted it that way. Here's the quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Moreau
We're gonna need to find a way to score more goals if we're- you know, we have some young goalies. There's gonna be times where we have to get 4 or 5 or 6 goals, and we don't have that right now. But when it's tied 2-2, that's how you can take some pressure off your defense and your goaltending is if you get the next goal and we've been unable to do that for a while now.
I disagree that he's selling Dubnyk out there. He doesn't mention Dubnyk specifically, for one thing. He also doesn't say that the goaltending needs to be better. What he does say is that realistically there will be nights where the offense has to help the goaltender, and Edmonton's offense hasn't been good enough. IMO, all he's saying is that the goalie is going to have off nights from time to time, and the offense needs to be there in those times to help out, which it hasn't been. I thought he was saying that the game would have been different had Edmonton been able to score another goal when it was tied 2-2. It sounded to me like he was saying the loss is inevitable when we can't get that next goal, despite how well or poorly the goalie was playing.

This isn't an example of him lacking accountability (he's a forward talking about the forwards needing to play better) or selling out another player (as he mentions no names.) He also does not use an accusing tone, if you listen to the interview.

A link to that interview: http://oilers.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?&id=56637

But keep going. I'm interested to see if people can come up with some examples of Moreau selling out teammates and failing to be accountable. Let's put this theory through it's paces.

-JH.

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Old
03-22-2010, 11:33 AM
  #137
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I feel bad for Whitney, misses out on a Cup, Penguins - Anahiem, then gets traded from Anahiem to bottom of the league. all in a year..

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03-22-2010, 11:44 AM
  #138
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I was just saying in the Whitney For Captain thread that I wanted to see more of him before we gave him something like the C. I changed my mind. Hand him the captaincy now please.
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03-22-2010, 12:24 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by John Hancock View Post
First, he had an injury that caused him to miss those games, which we can't just assume was a lie. If the management said he was injured, we have to believe the organization without proof to the contrary. At least, I'm not in the habit of believing conspiracy theories.

Second, Moreau doesn't sell out Dubnyk in that interview. He actually talks about the inability of the forwards to give the necessary offense to support the defense and goaltenders. He doesn't blame the goaltending. I'm not sure why you interpreted it that way. Here's the quote:



I disagree that he's selling Dubnyk out there. He doesn't mention Dubnyk specifically, for one thing. He also doesn't say that the goaltending needs to be better. What he does say is that realistically there will be nights where the offense has to help the goaltender, and Edmonton's offense hasn't been good enough. IMO, all he's saying is that the goalie is going to have off nights from time to time, and the offense needs to be there in those times to help out, which it hasn't been. I thought he was saying that the game would have been different had Edmonton been able to score another goal when it was tied 2-2. It sounded to me like he was saying the loss is inevitable when we can't get that next goal, despite how well or poorly the goalie was playing.

This isn't an example of him lacking accountability (he's a forward talking about the forwards needing to play better) or selling out another player (as he mentions no names.) He also does not use an accusing tone, if you listen to the interview.

A link to that interview: http://oilers.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?&id=56637

But keep going. I'm interested to see if people can come up with some examples of Moreau selling out teammates and failing to be accountable. Let's put this theory through it's paces.

-JH.
Uhm, you are appearing to be very offended by someone else's actions or lack there of. Do you realize that even Ethan Moreau himself would not defend himself to this depth. Why would anyone not named Ethan Moreau be this offended. It has been a trying year, and the fans have been right there through it all. There is no illusion, the leadership of this team during the low times seemed to wilt to the notion of bad principles regarding loyalty to the other guys in the room. It is up to the veterans to guide the youth, not the other way around.
Question: Would you pick Ethan Moreau to be your captain if there was an opening for the 2010-2011 season for the Edmonton Oilers, based on the players that are on the team right now, factoring in this years turn of events?

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03-22-2010, 12:35 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by John Hancock View Post
I don't have an issue with the nature of the comments, necessarily. I take issue with the fact that Whitney is commenting on things that he has no experience with. He hasn't walked a mile in the shoes of an Oiler. He only played 5 or 6 games when he made those comments. He has no right to say those things when he hasn't been here all season. He wasn't here for our 1 win in 20 games, he has no idea how crushing that might have been for certain players. He has no right to come out and say that the other players on this team shouldn't feel the way they currently feel. For all he knows, that kind of losing streak might have gotten to him to, and he could be just as depressed as the rest of the players right now.

Not only that, but he's not the captain, or a coach, or a person within the organization with the authority to say those things. If he was in a position of authority, I wouldn't be against these comments. It's not the new guy's place to call out his team.

Whitney isn't some veteran who's seen it all over the course of his long and prominent career. That would make him a person with authority. He's only ever played for one losing team, in his rookie season with Pittsburgh. He's played for a winning Pittsburgh, then a winning Anaheim, then came to a losing Oilers and says there's no excuse to feel down when you are losing? What, exactly, does Whitney know about losing in the NHL? I'll say again, he has no authority to call this team out and say they have a "loser" attitude, when he's never really had the opportunity to walk a mile in their shoes.
Fair points.

But what is he supposed to say when a reporter approaches him with a question about the nature of this team and the problems that inhabit the psyche of multiple players on it? I think he was being truthful, honest, straightforward and was merely giving his take on some of the problems he quickly realized contribute to the poor results this team is delivering. To me, it's refreshing compared to the stale and contrived retorts that the supposed 'leadership' and/or veteran group has delivered over the past four seasons.

He obviously hasn't been here for that long but the media were the initiators in this line of dialogue and looked to him for an assessment. He spoke his mind and outlined his observations. - I haven't seen any of his teammates disagree with his opinion - Usually something would leak out if others in the dressing room had a problem with his current estimation of the roster and weren't in favor of the comments he had made. Instead, it has seemed to become some sort of a rallying cry and since those comments the team has infinitely cut down on their stupid and nonchalant play.

I understand the concern about him being new to the team and city. I understand he's not in a position of authority. But at the same time, I don't believe he is openly seeking it either. But who's to say that Ryan Whitney can't become a great leader born out of necessity for this franchise? We're obviously very clearly lacking in this department and I'd rather someone grab the bull by the horns whether than waiting for an opportunity to present itself. I guess for me it's either listening to the same old contrived rhetoric that we've been listening to for the past four years or listen to a new and invigorated voice who brings a breath of fresh air to the dressing room. I choose the latter. Again, he may not have the supposed authority to call the team out about its loser attitude, but when it's painfully clear and obvious to the paying fans.. The team has obviously not crumbled or collapsed after his comments - I think they've taken them to heart.




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You and I can agree to disagree, but don't tell me I have no business posting my opinion, then proceed to post your own.
You're right, I apologize.



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You know, I hear this "Moreau sells out his teammates" line all the time. Where is the proof? I went to the Oilers website and searched the videos with the key words "Ethan Moreau." Every single interview, Moreau had criticism, and also positives, to say about the team. He speaks again and again about how he feels the team prepares the best that they can, and it's hard to put a finger on what exactly goes wrong in the games. He states, over and over again, that he feels proud of the level of compete and preparation that the Oilers have before the games. He continually compliments the team.
What good is a compliment when it doesn't ring true? I read into his comments differently. To me, it seems painfully clear that he is not only absolving himself, but others from the responsibility that is clearly theirs to take. Have you ever heard him address his tendencies to take, and even I think you would agree, ridiculous and unnecessary penalties at crucial points in the game? His absolute lack of focus and discipline? He has dished out slivers of criticism here and there, but hardly enough to have anyone bat an ear. His saying, he feels the team prepares the best it can and so on and so forth is no more than a bag of hot air. If that was the case, how come the stupid mistakes start and/or continue from the outset of the first whistle? How does he continue to put his team in shorthanded situations with selfish plays?

It's one thing to not be able to put your finger on a problem with the team... it's another entirely to be the supposed Captain and not be able to diagnose the problems that plague the current iteration of the roster. How can anybody seriously take this guy as a leader, as a captain if he can't understand the deficiencies in his and others games that need to be worked and improved upon?

Positivity is good. Positivity for shoving your thumb up your butt is not.

Quote:
What he does not do in even one of the interviews I watched while performing that search, is throw other players under the bus. Maybe he spoke out to the media -once or twice- in a fashion that offended you. But there is tons of proof online, in the form of the videos on the Oilers website, that proves that he regularly speaks to the media in a very professional manner, and doesn't sell out his teammates.

You making the claim that he continually does this is downright absurd. Watch the pre-game, post-game, and off-day interviews for yourself. Provide proof that he's selfish, that he can't choose his words carefully, or that he sells out the young players "without hesitation." That's all hyberbole, or downright false.
I do not have the links but I'm sure others will validate these forthcoming points of instance:

1) This season, he proceeds to make a comment about the young goalie tandem in net. Going on to say something to the effect of that it's hard to win when you have to score so many goals.

There is no need for that. How do you think JDD or DD read into that? Horrible, horrible judgment by El Capitan here.

A direct shot across the bow of JDD and DD. But in all reality, this does not surprise me - which leads me to point #2.


2) Where there is smoke, there is fire. Last season, I'm sure you remember the supposed and rumored rift in the dressing room between the supposed, and I use this term lightly, 'leadership group' and the younger players. If I recall, and maybe somebody can confirm this, I read an article from a respected member of the Edmonton media scene who all but confirmed the rift by saying that there was noise and rumblings of a divide between the two groups.

Isn't it up to El Capitan to prevent such a thing?


There are others, I can't remember off-hand, sorry.



Quote:
As to the statement that you bolded yourself, that is nothing but your opinion and, even if true, is impossible to prove. I see no reason to make such a bold claim when it can't be proven. Are you trying to blame the lack of success on this organization on Ethan Moreau alone? What inside information do you have that suggests that Moreau has never been a good captain in any year of his captaincy, that he's been a bad leader in the years that he's been a part of this team? Not just that, but you need to justify how it's been a complete disaster, since you chose those words.

In regards to your point "E", we have looked just fine lately with Ethan Moreau in the lineup, and have won 2 games in a row, against tough teams (SJ and Detroit.) Perhaps we looked better after the trade deadline because guys no longer felt the pressure of possibly being traded? Perhaps new people in the lineup, who haven't been around to experience the depression, infused the team with new life? Perhaps you are talking out of our ass, because the team didn't suddenly start to look like complete crap when Moreau rejoined the lineup?

-JH.
Over the past few seasons, as I have outlined, I have yet to see the supposed Captain of this franchise -

1) Take accountability for his, and others poor play

2) Clearly define and outline the strengths and weaknesses of the roster, including what needs to be improved ect. in order to win games and be successful.

3) Foster a productive, learning environment in the room and on the ice for the talented youth on the team.


Should I go on? Does it look like this man has any respect in the Oilers dressing room? The players are happily playing out the string this season full well knowing that this guy is not going to be back next season. It's obvious that they tried dropping him at the trade deadline.

Furthermore, Tambellini refuses to bring Jordan Eberle up to the big club until the cancer is removed from the dressing room. You would think that the only reason that our GM is not satisfied with the condition of the dressing room is because the supposed Captain has no control over anyone in it, don't you think?

Ethan Moreau has not once, in his time as Captain, proven to be a teacher or a leader. That is why I classify his time as such a complete and utter disaster. Many here are under the same frame of mind.


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Old
03-22-2010, 05:31 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Pros and Cons View Post
Uhm, you are appearing to be very offended by someone else's actions or lack there of. Do you realize that even Ethan Moreau himself would not defend himself to this depth. Why would anyone not named Ethan Moreau be this offended. It has been a trying year, and the fans have been right there through it all. There is no illusion, the leadership of this team during the low times seemed to wilt to the notion of bad principles regarding loyalty to the other guys in the room. It is up to the veterans to guide the youth, not the other way around.
Question: Would you pick Ethan Moreau to be your captain if there was an opening for the 2010-2011 season for the Edmonton Oilers, based on the players that are on the team right now, factoring in this years turn of events?
I'm not offended at all. I'm simply trying to look at things without bias, something I don't think many posters around here do. They want to dislike Moreau, and so every comment he makes is automatically somehow uncalled for, or an insult. I have yet to see or hear a Moreau interview where I personally thought he was doing any of the things that posters on these forums accuse him of doing. Not a single interview. I've pretty much kept silent when people have slandered Moreau again and again on these boards, but eventually I have to come to the guy's defense when I feel that not one of the accusations made about him have solid proof to back them up. It's not about me being offended, it's about Moreau's name being repeatedly dragged through the mud, when I don't think he deserves it.

To answer your question, I have no idea. Most of what a captain does is on the bench, in the dressing room, and at practices. I'm not privy to any of that, so I'm not really in a position to say who should be captain. So far, I haven't seen the media report that any of our young players have really stepped up as leaders for us, so I would say that, if Moreau is not a part of this team next season, we should probably go without a captain, and have 3 A's instead. Whether or not Moreau deserves to be captain is another matter, one that I can't answer with any kind of authority. What I do believe is, some people on these forums have got it in their heads that Moreau is a piece of trash, and they are allowing themselves to dissect every comment made by Moreau with preconceived bias against him.

-JH.

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