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Old
03-17-2010, 07:41 PM
  #26
alphahelix
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Originally Posted by rec28 View Post
How do you rationalize this statement with the argument you are making against my proposal? You wouldn't consider trading Hemsky + an uncertain 1st rounder for a top 2 pick + Wheeler, but you would consider trading Hemsky plus a certain 1st rounder for a marginal improvement in draft position?
Yes, Once we know what those picks are. It could mean the difference between drafting a nobody and drafting a top player. You are talking about moving a pick that we currently have no means to predict.

Think of it this way. Will you envy Brian Burke as the draft begins this year and he has to sit and watch Boston draft a top player? So why are you in such a rush to put yourself in that position? Then imagine how Brian Burke would feel if he had also dealt Kaberle away in that trade.

You don't deal something like the 2011 top pick WITH Hemsky for anything. Its crazy. You'd have to be incredibly lucky for that gamble to pay off.

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Old
03-17-2010, 07:51 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Valic View Post
Do you people not realize that trading our first next year is completely asinine? No rebuilding team should ever trade their first round pick especially when they are far and away the worst team in the NHL.

Toronto first this year could = Edmonton first next year
Hemsky >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wheeler.

See how this has the potential to set us back even further?
TOR 1st this year does not equal edm 1st next year.. If it does then EDM should trade their 1st this year for Tor 1st next yr

Seguin >>>> an unknow pick next yr.. could even not be a top 10 one

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Old
03-17-2010, 07:53 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
Yes, Once we know what those picks are. It could mean the difference between drafting a nobody and drafting a top player. You are talking about moving a pick that we currently have no means to predict.

Think of it this way. Will you envy Brian Burke as the draft begins this year and he has to sit and watch Boston draft a top player? So why are you in such a rush to put yourself in that position? Then imagine how Brian Burke would feel if he had also dealt Kaberle away in that trade.

You don't deal something like the 2011 top pick WITH Hemsky for anything. Its crazy. You'd have to be incredibly lucky for that gamble to pay off.
I would do it for a franchise prospect like Tavares and Stamkos.. Hall and Seguin are no worse

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Old
03-17-2010, 07:56 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
Yes, Once we know what those picks are. It could mean the difference between drafting a nobody and drafting a top player. You are talking about moving a pick that we currently have no means to predict.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
Think of it this way. Will you envy Brian Burke as the draft begins this year and he has to sit and watch Boston draft a top player? So why are you in such a rush to put yourself in that position? Then imagine how Brian Burke would feel if he had also dealt Kaberle away in that trade.
This is a fair point, but 1) this is a retroactive assessment of the deal - the Leafs could just as easily have finished outside the top 5; 2) until the picks are made and the players develop the jury is still out on the deal, anyway; and 3)the Oilers season this year was a perfect storm of suck. While they won't be contending any time soon, I don't think that - if reasonably healthy - they will be one of the worst 2 teams in the league next season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
You don't deal something like the 2011 top pick WITH Hemsky for anything. Its crazy. You'd have to be incredibly lucky for that gamble to pay off.
You're only looking at the potential upside of the 2011 pick, and I submit that it is much more likely that the Oilers are in the top 28 in the league next year than in the bottom two.

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Old
03-17-2010, 08:03 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
I would do it for a franchise prospect like Tavares and Stamkos.. Hall and Seguin are no worse
You might just be trading one future franchise prospect for another.

It's kind of funny how a "proven" prospect > unknown potential draft pick when we're doing just that, in a sense, when we trade away Hemsky + for picks this year (In HFBoards rhetoric: proven player < potential).

And an Oilers team without Hemsky, well, I'd be hard pressed to believe that it won't be top 10, if not a top 5 pick.

Unless, of course, the awesome combined duo Hall and Seguin lead us to the promised land way ahead of schedule, with an all-rookie supporting cast.

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Old
03-18-2010, 06:16 AM
  #31
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We had our pants fed to us in this deal. Makes no sense.

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Old
03-18-2010, 12:02 PM
  #32
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I like BBO's mother of all trade proposals:

To Boston: Hemsky, Penner, Gilbert
Total Cap Hit $12.35 million

To Edmonton: TO's 1st, Boston's 1st, Ryder, Thomas, and Wideman
Total Cap Hit $12.9375 million


We eat the salary that is needed to trade with Boston, we drop players with only a few years left on a contract (Penner, Hemsky) who may not resign, and we eat some salary.

We get back two first rounders, a prospect and a couple of underacheivers.

I know at first blush, the trade seems a little bit too much, but you're really only trading 2 years worth of Penner/Hemsky - i.e. they are both UFAs. Some of the players may shift around, but it would probably take something like a massive trade and some salary back to get Boston's picks. In the end, Edmonton speeds up the rebuild by a year or two and Boston hangs on to contending status.

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Old
03-18-2010, 12:47 PM
  #33
Joey Moss
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Hemsky can have success playing with a sniper named Taylor Hall on his LW.

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Old
03-18-2010, 01:00 PM
  #34
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I'd be ok with Hemmer for the #1 or #2 spot this year depending on where we finish....Hall and Seguin!!

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Old
03-18-2010, 02:19 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
Do you people not realize that trading our first next year is completely asinine? No rebuilding team should ever trade their first round pick especially when they are far and away the worst team in the NHL.
You're trading for 1 of Seguin/Hall. Even if the Oilers are the worst team in the league next year, which is far from a good bet (bottom 10, sure), you still only have a 50% chance of getting the first draft pick. Next years top pick, and 2nd top pick, are likely not going to be of Seguin/Hall quality. At least, I've been lead to believe that this is the landscape.

Holding on to next years pick, when there's the potential to get this years second pick (let's say Seguin), would be full on ********. Get the quality player, and get him now, so he can start developing.


Last edited by stratedge: 03-18-2010 at 02:25 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
03-18-2010, 02:24 PM
  #36
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I'd do it, or more simply Hemmer for the Toronto pick straight up. I salivate so much I drool when I think about it. I'm not really clear on whether or not this is in Boston's best interests though, but like the OP I would roughly think it would be since they have reason to go for it now, Hemsky is a great player on a good value contract, and their team is ripe to do some damage.

It's painful, but we now know that it'll be hard to utilize Hemsky for anything purposeful before he's a UFA, other than interim entertainment on occasion while this team blows. It would make me very happy to hear Tamb-Lowe are shopping him for a top notch pick/prospect this summer.

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Old
03-18-2010, 02:56 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
Do you people not realize that trading our first next year is completely asinine? No rebuilding team should ever trade their first round pick especially when they are far and away the worst team in the NHL.


Toronto first this year could = Edmonton first next year
Hemsky >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wheeler.



See how this has the potential to set us back even further?
if the oilers are as bad next year as they are this year

northlands would be burned down

oilers pick next year will be back around the 10 to 15 range again

people just need to let go of getting the TO pick

unless they start offering MPS or Eberle and hemsky and the oilers 2011 pick as the starting point

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Old
03-18-2010, 06:42 PM
  #38
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I don't know that we should do the OP's offer. I personally would not trade our 2011 1st even to get a very high pick this season because we very easily could be top 3 next year and next year's top 3 is just as good as this year's top 3 even though the rest of the draft isn't supposed to be. I would do the following and I kinda think Boston would too but who knows:

To Bos: Hemsky

To Edm: Ryder and Tor 2010 1st

Almost the exact same cap hit's, we would only have Ryder until the trade deadline and then I think we could get something decent for him (a 2nd and a 3rd maybe, keep in mind a weak draft), and although so many people hate when I say this it gets us closer to Adam Larsson.

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Old
03-18-2010, 06:49 PM
  #39
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If we made that trade and sunk the season, and the Leafs sunk their season as well. Wouldn't Boston walk up on 2011 draft day with the top two picks? Man that'd be something to see.

Edit: Oh yeah and Hemsky too.

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Old
03-18-2010, 07:00 PM
  #40
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The only team I could see making a move with the Oil are the Jackets because it may make sense for them. A move for a top pick has to include Hemsky or Gagner and much more and Hemsky would be a great fit with the Jackets. There is no way in hell the Bruins move a top 3 pick

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Old
03-18-2010, 07:09 PM
  #41
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Edmonton has been as bad as they have been this year due to 2 things: a.) Lack of talent b.) multiply talented players going down with injuries.

Now, Edmonton could be bringing in as many as three (3) top-6 level forwards next year in MPS, Eberle, and their 2010 #1 pick. Add to that a (hopefully) healthy Hemsky, Souray and Khabibulin and Edmonton should be north of a top-10 pick.

If I had a crystal ball, I, as a Bruins fan, would move Toronto's 1st in 2010 for Edmonton's #1 in 2011 IF I knew that pick would be #1, but I just don't see that. Too much talent coming in next year to be this bad again next year.

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Old
03-18-2010, 08:32 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
Hemsky can have success playing with a sniper named Taylor Hall on his LW.
Taylor Hall's more of a powerforward than a sniper.

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Old
03-18-2010, 09:40 PM
  #43
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Hemsky, Penner
for 2010 Toronto's 1st and cap hit albatross (ie. Ryder or Wideman)

As much as I love Hemmer, he's not staying around for a re-build...sell Penner while his stock is high

take back some salary now that we've got some room
Hall-Seguin-Brule
Eberle-Gagner-Ryder

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Old
03-18-2010, 09:45 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
Hemsky, Penner
for 2010 Toronto's 1st and cap hit albatross (ie. Ryder or Wideman)

As much as I love Hemmer, he's not staying around for a re-build...sell Penner while his stock is high

take back some salary now that we've got some room
Hall-Seguin-Brule
Eberle-Gagner-Ryder
Only 1 LH in the top six?

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Old
03-18-2010, 09:46 PM
  #45
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Taylor Hall's more of a powerforward than a sniper.
He is a powerforward with a sniper's shot.

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Old
03-18-2010, 10:28 PM
  #46
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Taylor Hall's more of a powerforward than a sniper.
Right, so he can't score goals...

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Old
03-19-2010, 06:20 AM
  #47
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The way I see it, trading away Hemsky is one key factor in how well we place next season. Boston taking Hemsky and our pick next year is like guaranteeing themselves that the pick will be top 5.

If we are going to trade Hemsky, it means we have resigned ourselves to tank next year. Why would we trade next year's pick at the same time?

-JH.

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Old
03-19-2010, 08:01 AM
  #48
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if we trade Hemsky, my dream scenario is to Columbus

Hemsky for Columbus 1st pick (around 5th or 6th) + Filitov

Filitov's age is more consistent with our rebuild. If Howson doesn't win next year, he is looking for work.

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Old
03-19-2010, 12:53 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
Yes, Once we know what those picks are. It could mean the difference between drafting a nobody and drafting a top player. You are talking about moving a pick that we currently have no means to predict.

Think of it this way. Will you envy Brian Burke as the draft begins this year and he has to sit and watch Boston draft a top player? So why are you in such a rush to put yourself in that position? Then imagine how Brian Burke would feel if he had also dealt Kaberle away in that trade.

You don't deal something like the 2011 top pick WITH Hemsky for anything. Its crazy. You'd have to be incredibly lucky for that gamble to pay off.
Putting it this way, I agree.

Keeping him for another two years we risk losing him for nothing.

Trading him at this year's draft for a top flight draft pick we get someone else for another 7 years.

I say trade him for the right deal. A one-for-one star player for star prospect.

But I don't trade him for the sake of moving him.

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Old
03-19-2010, 01:02 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SlowFreshOil View Post
The logic behind trading next year's pick, is the draft is pretty weak from all accounts.

I'm not saying I'm for a trade like this, just explaining the reasons behind trading next year's pick for this year's.
How can you tell that a year from the draft? Look at how far Seguin has come in a span of a year.

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