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Ryan Kesler signed - Plek to have same salary ?

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Old
03-19-2010, 06:11 PM
  #51
JGRB
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Both RFA...

How about Gomez? or Gionta? or Huselius? or Langkow?

Plus, there aren't too many centers available this summer... Marleau, Jokinen...?

We'll have to overpay because he's a free agent, I hope he'll get around 4,75-5mil a year... but he could refuse and most probably get more on the market.
If he wants more then Kesler, IMO he can walk.

This has really set a bar as far as I am concerned with Plekanec. With Savard getting locked up at a 4M cap hit, and now Kesler being locked up at a 5M cap hit, it has established a market value for this season. Like others have said, the situation isn't identical to Plekanecs so there is different variables to take into consideration. However, with our team already "cap-strapped" I really wouldn't want to see them go over the Kesler deal in terms of money. Kesler is a better hockey player, and MUCH more rugged.

With the cap being so important now a days, I don't see teams knocking down Plekanec's door for his services at say 6M per season... I'd say his UFA value (not being signed in Montreal) is a maximum of 5.5M.

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Old
03-19-2010, 06:29 PM
  #52
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This is the best benchmark contract for pleks. They are both guys capable 1a/1b centres. They are both vital contributors on both the PP and the PK, and they both play a tenacious and up tempo game although kesler is more physical and bigger. They are also very similar age and experience wise.

I value the intangibles of kelser a little more than plekanec, but besides that, they are quite similar. I'm thinking 4.8 for pleks

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Old
03-19-2010, 06:46 PM
  #53
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Big Fat Lajoie thinks Pleky will get at least 6M. What a moron. The same guy who thought Markov was overpaid @ 5.75M.

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Old
03-19-2010, 07:01 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I think the Kesler deals really sets a ceiling for Plex now. I don't think he'll get more then Kesler
The ceiling is whatever the market is willing to pay. Econ 101. Kesler signed as an RFA.

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03-19-2010, 07:27 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
The ceiling is whatever the market is willing to pay. Econ 101. Kesler signed as an RFA.
My question to you is, which team do you think is desperate enough to offer Plekanec that much more then what Kesler just got? The cap is likely not moving, possibly decling and Plekanec simply isn't a game-breaking player. Questions are begged to be asked as to why his 2008-2009 season was *that* bad. He's not an elite center, and won't get paid as one.

How many centers are making 6M or more per season?

Crosby, Malkin, E.Staal, B.Richards, Lecavalier, Gomez, Thornton,Drury, Spezza, Kopitar, Datsyuk, Statsny, Briere, H.Sedin.

Bolded are players definitely not worth their salary, they we're all signed in the 2007 cluster **** UFA where it looked like the cap would constantly fly high, and what do they have in common? They all achieved as good or better statistics then Plekanec leading up to their contract signings. Is Plekanec worthy of being amongst these guys? Probably not.

Centers making between 5-6M:

M.Richards, Horcoff, Getzlaf, Jokinen, J.Carter, Ribeiro, Savard.

Richards is the highest paid in this category at 5.75M and we can all agree he is vastly superior to Plekanec. Horcoff is seriously overpaid, regardless. Getzlaf/Carter are steals at 5.25M. Jokinen had some great seasons (vastly superior to those Pleks has had) when he signed his current contract.

What i'm getting at is, aside from the 2007 disaster UFA (and it was horrible), you can see that no one other then the elite talent have cashed in on a huge payday at this position for whatever the reason may be. Today's NHL, the cap hit is the most important factor for most teams and who realisticly is going to spend precious capspace (in excess of 5-5.5M) on Plekanec? Very Very few teams can afford to do it.

My realistic expectations for Plekanec to re-sign in Montreal are anywhere from 4.5-5.25M per season for atleast 4 years... It could end up being less, and I could see it going as high as 5.5M.. I cannot picture Gauthier going out and further handcuffing this team with another ridiculous 6M+ contract.

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Old
03-19-2010, 08:09 PM
  #56
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Objectively, I think Kessler has more $$ value as a player than Kessler.

4-4.5M seems like the magic number for me

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Old
03-19-2010, 09:47 PM
  #57
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6 years, 27M front loaded, progressive decline of NTC limitation.

y1: 6M - Full NTC
y2: 5M - Full NTC
y3: 5M - Full NTC
y4: 4M - Partial NTC - list of six (6) teams in both the Eastern and Western Conference that he will accept a trade to
y5: 4M - Partial NTC - list of six (6) teams in both the Eastern and Western Conference that he will accept a trade to
y6: 3M - No NTC

Cap hit: 4,5M

Why front loaded? In case new rules determine that the receiving team from a trade pays the "new" cap hit calculated from the remaining salary and number of years. For example, let's say in y4, we trade Pleks then the receiving team will have a cap hit of 3.6M instead of 4.5M.

At the end of the contract, Pleks will be well positioned for a very interesting contract because he will be under 35.


Last edited by crazyd: 03-19-2010 at 09:54 PM.
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Old
03-19-2010, 10:00 PM
  #58
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5M for Pleks : anytime for as long as he wants.

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Old
03-19-2010, 10:03 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
The ceiling is whatever the market is willing to pay. Econ 101. Kesler signed as an RFA.
While he did sign as an RFA, Kesler did give away 5 years of UFA eligibility in the deal.

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Old
03-19-2010, 10:10 PM
  #60
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Since the 80's (because I'm not sure how it worked before), did the Habs ever signed a guy to a contract of 6 years or more?

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Old
03-20-2010, 12:41 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
I agree, it really comes down to his greed or lack thereof. If i'm Gauthier, i give myself a workable ceiling (5M?) and stick with that. He also has to think about this question: Between Markov and Plekanec, who would i rather be willing to let go for nothing or trade? Or how about this question: Do you keep Plekanec at the expense of losing one of Price and Halak? I really find it hard to believe that we can keep them all over the next 3 years let's say.
why do you say "greed"???

we can debate until we're blue in the face wether or not individuals deserve to make millions to play hockey, but that's another issue.

At this point, for Plekanec to decide he wants to test the market, see what his value is league wide, and then sign with the team that shows the most confidence in him/desire to get him, is not a matter of "greed" imo.

The freedom to work wherever one wants is not something NHL players get the opportunity to do until they've reached free agency... until then their rights, and thus their freedom to choose where they want to live, for what "company" they want to work for, and their leverage in negotiating a contract commensurable to their real value in their workforce are all severely limited.

The team didn't want to make a long term commitment to him last year (or the year before that), now he's free to explore his options...

to turn around and call him greedy if he decides to go to where he's most valued is ridiculous imo.
Just as it was with Komisarek.

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Old
03-20-2010, 12:58 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
David Krejci is making 3.75. Bigger, a better passer, but less of a goal scorer. Though, was RFA.

Kesler, better goal scorer, bigger, better defensively, better in the faceoff circle (iirc) 5 mill.

Pleks at 4 = sweet.
Pleks at 4.5/4.75 = fair.
Plekanec: 382 games - 99 goals and 150 assists for 249 points.

Kesler: 391 games - 86 goals and 120 assists for 206 points.

Better goal scorer? I would give the offensive edge to Plekanec (great Kovalev year offset by a poor Kovalev year). Kesler may be build stronger physically, but Plekanec has the speed/acceleration advantage and isnt bad defensive player or weak on faceoff either.

I say if we get Plekanec for same contract and term it would be better deal than what Vancover had with Kesler.


Last edited by Marksman: 03-20-2010 at 01:03 AM.
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Old
03-20-2010, 02:16 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
I would think Pleks would cost a 0.5 to 1 million less than Kesler. Kesler is the better player.
Although both are good players - Kesler is a more physical player - while (IMHO) Pleks is a more offensively talented player.

If.....for some reason the Habs don't offer Pleks a similar contract as Kesler received from Vancouver - I would be surprised if a number of teams did not offer Pleks similar money - and as a UFA - maybe more!

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Old
03-20-2010, 02:34 AM
  #64
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I think that is Pleks will sign for around this or maybe a little less with a hometown discount which is about right. However I think PG will shop Halak, Hamrlik, and Either A.Kost or both the brothers to add some grit or for picks and sign someone like Colby Armstrong.

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Old
03-20-2010, 09:08 AM
  #65
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Kesler brings more of an all around game compared to Pleks IMO.. Although this year with all the injuries Pleks has shown great slides at both ends of the ice.. Last year I'd say Pleks signs for something like Kesler, this year I still say 4-4.5M per over 5-6yrs.. Gauhier has Pleks coming off a bad season to use as leverage, so the question STILL remains.. Can Pleks do it EVERY year? Or is this his one BIG year and mellow out for the of his career? I'm NOT knocking Pleks so stop right there, I'm just playing devils advocate here, something I'm sure ALL GM's do in contract talks. Pleks at 4.25M per for 5+yrs would make me happy.

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Old
03-20-2010, 09:38 AM
  #66
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7 years (so he's a free agent at 34 years old) at a cap hit around 4,5-5.

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Old
03-20-2010, 09:53 AM
  #67
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2 years ago people on here wanted to give Pleks a huge contract. Last year they wanted to trade "Girlanec" for a mid round draft pick. Now they want to give him a huge contract again. Fickle fickle.

For the record, i've always been a big fan of his and defended him wholeheartedly last year and do want him signed long term.

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Old
03-20-2010, 01:11 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by NHLcrazy View Post
Since the 80's (because I'm not sure how it worked before), did the Habs ever signed a guy to a contract of 6 years or more?
Signed? I can’t think of someone right now. But a few years ago, Gainey did offer a 6 years contract to Daniel Brière. If Plekanec re-signs with Montreal, I expect it will be for more than 6 years.

That being mentioned, Plekanec and the Canadiens had plenty of occasions to sign an extension and, despite all the pretty/diplomatic talk, they did not: imo Plekanec and his clan intend to test the UFA market.

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Old
03-20-2010, 01:22 PM
  #69
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I love the way the Canucks have built their team, they're a model for the cap era. Their top players were gotten through the draft, in different positions, two of their top players were gotten through trades and they get amazing dollar value for their players:

Sedin 6.1
Sedin 6.1
Luongo 5.34
Kesler 4.91

All signed long term, very jealous.

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Old
03-20-2010, 01:36 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Scotty hates Sergei View Post
I love the way the Canucks have built their team, they're a model for the cap era. Their top players were gotten through the draft, in different positions, two of their top players were gotten through trades and they get amazing dollar value for their players:

Sedin 6.1
Sedin 6.1
Luongo 5.34
Kesler 4.91

All signed long term, very jealous.
Agreed, not to mention the term isn't 12 years like some teams. Very cap friendly and very good core.

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Old
03-20-2010, 04:08 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Agreed, not to mention the term isn't 12 years like some teams. Very cap friendly and very good core.
Luongo actually is signed for 12 years.

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Old
03-20-2010, 05:27 PM
  #72
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Nick Kypreos just said you could make a case for Kesler being the 2nd best center in the league.

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Old
03-20-2010, 05:35 PM
  #73
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Kesler is a more well-rounded and consistent player, making him a bit more valuable than Pleks, imo.

However, UFAs usually command more than RFAs.

So, I think that these two cancel out and should result in Pleks getting more or less the same as Kesler did. I'd be happy with Pleks at $5 million a year for 4 years. That would set Pleks up for potentially another big contract a la Kesler (for each player, the contract would expire around the age of 31).

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Old
03-20-2010, 05:49 PM
  #74
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Luongo actually is signed for 12 years.
My bad. I thought it was less.

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Old
03-20-2010, 05:53 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
Kesler is a more well-rounded and consistent player, making him a bit more valuable than Pleks, imo.

However, UFAs usually command more than RFAs.

So, I think that these two cancel out and should result in Pleks getting more or less the same as Kesler did. I'd be happy with Pleks at $5 million a year for 4 years. That would set Pleks up for potentially another big contract a la Kesler (for each player, the contract would expire around the age of 31).
Kesler's contract essentially is a UFA contract though. He only had 1 year of RFA eligibility left, so this is essentially a 5 year contract signed from UFA status. The Canucks likely had to pay for some of Kesler's UFA years in this, upping the price. Its a great contract for the Canucks as Kesler has shown consistent improvement year to year, whereas Pleks has been all over the place for us. We have no idea whether we're getting 70 point Pleks or AHL Pleks year to year.

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