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Was canning Renney the right decision?

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Old
03-20-2010, 03:38 PM
  #1
ChipAyten
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Was canning Renney the right decision?

I would have expected this to already been asked by now. In retrospect seeing where the team is now and all of our 'improvements', would we be further along if he was still coaching? Discuss.

Personally I think with this group of players it wouldn't matter whose coaching, Scotty Bowman, Herb Brooks, Jesus etc. A great (or bad) coach cant make up for a teams lack of natural skill. We're a team full of 3rd line goons. We just happen to have one all star goalie and forward thrown in just to keep us barely afloat.

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03-20-2010, 04:00 PM
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At the time, Renney certainly seemed to have lost the team. In that regard, the Rangers strong start last season was what really did him in. If they struggled then entire year, you could've said, hold on a second, Sather IS the problem.

Instead, the Rangers came out of the gate like thunder, and when they fell flat on their faces, the scapegoat was Renney.

I thought it was a move that needed to be made, because I didn't think we were as bad as we played in the middle of the season. In hindsight, I regret supporting Renney's termination (not that my say matters).

In my view, Renney was at fault only to whatever extent he signed off/suggested the composition of last season's team (ie: letting Jagr walk and bringing in Redden).

I don't hate Torts, but I don't think he's the answer to our problems either (Scotty Bowman would not have this team winning).

In sum, I don't think our team's failures last year were Renney's fault; I'd take him back in a New York minute, then I would immediately promote him to GM.

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03-20-2010, 04:18 PM
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I think it was a right decision at the time. Tom has completely lost the team and in order to make a playoffs, a big change had to be done. It's not the matter of coach, though - our problems start higher and lower - players are simply not good enough to contend, and Rangers field those players thanks to management, as simple as that.

I do believe Renney might have turned it around, but there was no time in order to do that, as we all know Rangers are expected to make the playoffs by the owner - decision to let Renney go was logical.

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03-20-2010, 04:29 PM
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Yep firing Renney was a bad decision. Fire Torts!

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03-20-2010, 04:31 PM
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ChipAyten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valverde View Post
I do believe Renney might have turned it around, but there was no time in order to do that, as we all know Rangers are expected to make the playoffs by the owner - decision to let Renney go was logical.
So does Dolan fire Torts for not giving Cablevision the 2 (or 3) more games of revenue at the Garden? Because we all know MSG/Cablevision/Dolan are hurting for cash.

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03-20-2010, 04:38 PM
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we woulda missed the playoffs last year w/o torts. so no, firing him was not a wrong decision.

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03-20-2010, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
At the time, Renney certainly seemed to have lost the team.
That's the problem -- firing him was a narrow-minded decision.

Renney would've made the playoffs with this group, and, more importantly, he is the right coach to have in place going forward considering the core in place (the type of players they are, and the fact they are comfortable with him) and the stable of young players we expect to come through (I'd prefer they develop at this level under Renney rather than Tortorella), so, no, canning Renney was not the right decision.

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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
we woulda missed the playoffs last year w/o torts. so no, firing him was not a wrong decision.
As I said above, that's a very narrow-minded view.

Further, keep in mind that last year Torts had the benefit of the additions of Antropov (he gave our offense a serious jolt, and I would argue with him we would've missed the playoffs) and Avery, both of whom were acquired (or in Avery's case, re-acquired) shortly after Renney was fired. So, that's though on Renney, especially when last year's original roster wast the worst since the lockout (worse than this year).


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03-20-2010, 04:41 PM
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Gardner McKay
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Yes. As much as I dont like Torts any more and think Renney is a better coach, it was obvious at the time that the players had just stopped Responding to what he was saying.

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03-20-2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
we woulda missed the playoffs last year w/o torts. so no, firing him was not a wrong decision.
As supposed to missing the playoffs this season?

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03-20-2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
Yes. As much as I dont like Torts any more and think Renney is a better coach, it was obvious at the time that the players had just stopped Responding to what he was saying.
Players sure have responded to Torts.

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03-20-2010, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Players sure have responded to Torts.
In what sense exactly?

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03-20-2010, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
In what sense exactly?
You can say the players failed to respond to Renney. But have they ever responded to Torts? Since he got suspended in the playoffs?

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03-20-2010, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
we woulda missed the playoffs last year w/o torts. so no, firing him was not a wrong decision.
But did we do and what are we doing this year. CRAP. This team always usually finds a way in a this year its not happening.

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03-20-2010, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You can say the players failed to respond to Renney. But have they ever responded to Torts? Since he got suspended in the playoffs?
No, and I never said they did respond to Torts. Implied it sure, but they clearly havent responded to him after going 7-1 to start and then miserably crumbling since. So for a 15 game strech, sure Torts had their ear. But at least Renney held it for what 3 years?

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03-20-2010, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabborik View Post
No, and I never said they did respond to Torts. Implied it sure, but they clearly havent responded to him after going 7-1 to start and then miserably crumbling since. So for a 15 game strech, sure Torts had their ear. But at least Renney held it for what 3 years?
My point is it's hard to say the team stopped responding to Renney when they have played the same level of hockey without him with arguably more talent.

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03-20-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You can say the players failed to respond to Renney. But have they ever responded to Torts? Since he got suspended in the playoffs?
The team was in a total free fall leading up to Renney's firing.
They were literally not even trying to win, and it seemed like most of the players wanted him gone.
Apparently a lot of people forgot how bad it was those last 10 games or so before his firing.
They would have missed the playoffs if he stayed, so keeping him around was not an option from that standpoint.

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03-20-2010, 05:05 PM
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Yes. The team gave up on him last year. I think he was a good coach who had not the slightest clue how a PP works. Give him a legit special teams coach and his system would have flourished. I even think with his system implemented all season we are in the 7/8 spot.

HOWEVER. Torts is a good coach. He is slowly turning this team away from that country club mentality the NYR have. Are there things I don't agree with? YES! But, he is doing well with what he has and he needed to really swap out some of our D for some faster puck moving D-men which he failed to do. Next season I expect this team to come out FLYING.

He needs to adjust his system for this team. Have the D-men not pinch in so much and clog the neutral zone.

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03-20-2010, 05:05 PM
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Yes. I thought Renney was a perfectly adequate coach who did the most he could with the mediocre team that was given him. I thought ridiculous those who said Renney's system was holding back players like Dubinsky from becoming the 70 point player that was surely his destiny.

That aside though, he'd lost the team. Once that happens, it's over. Good coach or bad coach no longer matters. He can't get the job done if the team won't listen.

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03-20-2010, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Players sure have responded to Torts.
well, it would be interesting to do a case study on players who played for both Torts and Renney.

You have what..Dubi, Cally, Drury, Avery, Staal, Girardi, Rozsival, and Redden off the top of my head....it would be interesting to see how said players are responding to Torts vs how they played with Renney...only 2 that seem to stand out as not responding are Drury and Rozsival, 2 older players...it would seem to me the younger players (ignoring Redden who sucks all the time regardless of the situation) have in fact responded, though I dont have the time right now to check the numbers.

The question here is, how many players are performing well below their career averages...lets use say 10% as a margin for error, in terms of point per game numbers.

The main culprits to me would seem to be Drury, Redden, and Higgins, Kotalik, and Brashear who all produced WELL below their career averages while here.

Seems to me those are problems you attribute to the GM who brought in said player, rather than the coach, but granted, you have to figure Torts had some say in it.

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03-20-2010, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
I would have expected this to already been asked by now.
it has. many times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
well, it would be interesting to do a case study on players who played for both Torts and Renney.

You have what..Dubi, Cally, Drury, Avery, Staal, Girardi, Rozsival, and Redden off the top of my head....it would be interesting to see how said players are responding to Torts vs how they played with Renney...only 2 that seem to stand out as not responding are Drury and Rozsival, 2 older players...it would seem to me the younger players (ignoring Redden who sucks all the time regardless of the situation) have in fact responded, though I dont have the time right now to check the numbers.
I think Avery is the biggest standout, as he's not nearly the player he was under Renney.

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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Seems to me those are problems you attribute to the GM who brought in said player, rather than the coach, but granted, you have to figure Torts had some say in it.
you would be taken a lot more seriously if that weren't the exact opposite tune you were singing last year.

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03-20-2010, 05:35 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Nick00 View Post
The team was in a total free fall leading up to Renney's firing.
They were literally not even trying to win, and it seemed like most of the players wanted him gone.
Apparently a lot of people forgot how bad it was those last 10 games or so before his firing.
They would have missed the playoffs if he stayed, so keeping him around was not an option from that standpoint.
And now they're not going to make the playoffs this year. A lot's changed.

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03-20-2010, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
well, it would be interesting to do a case study on players who played for both Torts and Renney.

You have what..Dubi, Cally, Drury, Avery, Staal, Girardi, Rozsival, and Redden off the top of my head....it would be interesting to see how said players are responding to Torts vs how they played with Renney...only 2 that seem to stand out as not responding are Drury and Rozsival, 2 older players...it would seem to me the younger players (ignoring Redden who sucks all the time regardless of the situation) have in fact responded, though I dont have the time right now to check the numbers.

The question here is, how many players are performing well below their career averages...lets use say 10% as a margin for error, in terms of point per game numbers.

The main culprits to me would seem to be Drury, Redden, and Higgins, Kotalik, and Brashear who all produced WELL below their career averages while here.

Seems to me those are problems you attribute to the GM who brought in said player, rather than the coach, but granted, you have to figure Torts had some say in it.
We have already seen what Renney can do with an elite offensive player and an elite goalie. Torts has that and they're more than likely going to miss the playoffs.

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03-20-2010, 05:38 PM
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If Renney was coaching this team there is NO way Del Zotto is playing in the NHL now and Gilroy probably doesn't come here. Is that a good or bad thing? I don't know.

I liked Renney a lot;classy and smart guy, and when everyone expected him to fall flat on his face after the lockout he turned this entire organization around and made Rangers hockey watchable and relevant again.

However that being said, he had his faults but I would have kept him as the long term coach kind of like how Nashville has with Barry Trotz. This year clearly shows that it's more the GM and personnel than the coach.

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03-20-2010, 05:40 PM
  #24
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If Renney was coaching this team there is NO way Del Zotto is playing in the NHL now and Gilroy probably doesn't come here. Is that a good or bad thing? I don't know.
Based on what? And if Gilroy didn't sign here, would it have been the worst thing?

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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
I liked Renney a lot;classy and smart guy, and when everyone expected him to fall flat on his face after the lockout he turned this entire organization around and made Rangers hockey watchable and relevant again.
Something that is too easily forgotten I think.

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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
However that being said, he had his faults but I would have kept him as the long term coach kind of like how Nashville has with Barry Trotz. This year clearly shows that it's more the GM and personnel than the coach.
I think he deserved a chance to play out the season and start this season. Especially since they were going to deal Gomez. Firing him was another example of Sather passing the buck and making moves just to make the playoffs.

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03-20-2010, 05:42 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by White Plains Batman View Post
If Renney was coaching this team there is NO way Del Zotto is playing in the NHL now and Gilroy probably doesn't come here. Is that a good or bad thing? I don't know.
that makes a lot of sense. Tortorella has shown in the past that he is much more patient with youth than Renney...

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