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David Poile, from good to stagnant (long)

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Old
03-15-2010, 11:28 PM
  #1
dulzhok
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David Poile, from good to stagnant (long)

1998- Poile starts from scratch
He had an amazing expansion draft, which combined with some side moves, yielded allstars Timonen and Vokoun. Scott Walker was also a nice find.

Knowing the need for a franchise offensive player, he traded up to get David Legwand. Legwand turns out not the franchise center we all hoped, but I admire the attempt none the less.

1998-2002
Not a lot of action. Poile took the right path to building and expansion team—patience and draft picks. He traded for a few decent veterans (Ronning, Brunette, etc) which kept us from being the worst team in the league, but you certainly can’t expect to build a winner that quickly.

2003-04: Poile gets the Predators over the hump.
He makes a great move trading Dunham, and handing the reigns to Vokoun. Vokoun turns into an allstar. Zidlikcy was an added benefit.

He also makes smart trades for guys like Ed Belfour, picking up compensatory picks. The compensatory pick for Belfour ended up being Shea Weber.

In 2003, the team was fighting for the playoffs. Down the stretch, DP trades draft picks for Steve Sullivan, which propels the Predators into the playoffs for the 1st time ever.

In my eyes, DP was pretty damn good at this point.


Lockout
A very unfortunate time for the lockout. The Predators had built a lot of momentum after their first playoff birth. However, it was probably worth it. The revenue sharing checks we’re getting now are making the franchise viable.

Resume play. 2005-06:

DP has built a nice foundation, and we continue along.

He signs Paul Kariya to a reasonable contract, after a sub-par year in Colorado. However, it was a bit disturbing when it comes out Kariya had to contact the Predators.

Trading a 1st for Witt was a flop, but was the only big blemish on his record at this point.

Offseason 2006
Ray Shero leaves for Pittsburgh. No one will know the impact he had on the above.

Signs Arnott & Dumont: Again, it comes out publicly that they had to contact the Predators, a pattern that’s becoming more disturbing. I guess we’ll give credit to Poile for the signings?

Arnott was a welcomed signing, but the 5 year length was questioned. Would his abilities diminish as he approached his upper 30’s?

Preds have a fantastic regular season. They are expected to make noise in the playoffs. In a surprising move, Poile trades 2 former 1st rounder’s & a future 1st rd pick for Forsberg rental. It’s clear he’s trying to build a team that makes noise in the playoffs. The end result is a 1st round exit and lost assets.

Ownership issues
We all know the situation.The end result is two UFA’s are gone (Timonen and Hartnell). Decent damage control to get a 1st rd for their rights. Vokoun gets shipped off too.

2007-present: Poile becomes stagnant.
The biggest trade that goes down is Walker for Vasicheck.

Big contracts were handed out to Legwand, Erat, Dumont, and Sullivan. Total value around 16 million. After signing Lewgand, Erat, and Dumont, Poile says “We’re making our bed.”

No trade of positive impact has been made since 2003, when we traded for Sullivan.

Radulov walks from his contact: No one knows what Poile did or didn’t do, but considering Poile’s passive nature, one has to wonder if a more assertive GM could’ve stepped in earlier and prevented the problem.

Rich Pevelery: Don Waddell says he would’ve been willing to trade for him. Are you kidding me?

But we don’t have the budget!
First off, our budget is tied up in players who aren’t earning their keep right now. We CAN afford a star contract, but we CAN'T if we are handing out 9 million to Legwand and Dumont.

Our budget, combined with our current contracts, is certainly a limiting factor. But that does that mean you have sit around and do nothing?

Poile has picked up some depth guys to fill some holes (Goc, Ward, Boillion). By his admission, some were never expected to be on the NHL roster (Ward), but we'll take it.

Here is a short list of moves that have been made since 2007 that weren’t big money moves: Rene Borque, Steve Downie, Scottie Upshall, A. Vermette, Peverly, Jokinen… all make considerably less money that our big 5 money makers, and produce just as well.

To sum up...
I think Poile was great for our team the first 5 years or so. He's had some obstacles to deal with, but I don't think that excuses him from the moves/non-moves/signings he's made the past 3 years. He has to take ownership of the bed he made.

In my opinion, his passive, "our bed is made" approach is not going to work for this for this franchise in the long run. We need a guy willing to take some calculated risks.

I see what Phoenix has done over the last year, and I see a team not being complacent with a limited budget. Complacency is painful to me, and I don't think it's going to take us to the next level.

And that's what I got to say...


Last edited by dulzhok: 03-15-2010 at 11:34 PM.
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Old
03-15-2010, 11:49 PM
  #2
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Im looking at what Phoenix has done and I don't see anything that I would want. They were not good for years and just now are reaching a level that the Predators and essentially been at for around 5 years. I believe we are in much better shape due to the strength of our defense.

Its also asinine to think about certain "cheap" moves we could have had. Downie wouldnt crack the team, Poile was trying hard to get Upshall. You would be a liar if you said Peverley would be that good.

As for the players calling to come play here, if Kariya, Arnott, and Dumont all called wanting to play in Nashville Poile should be given a medal for making this "the" destination team. All were near the top in their free agent classes.

So we have a great young team right now after 3 years of being screwed. We really don't miss any of the assets we lost in trades, we have a mix of veterans and kids. Pretty much this team is in its best spot in its history and you are questioning Poile? Im kinda confused by this thought process.

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03-15-2010, 11:51 PM
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I couldn't disagree more. I think Poile is setting this franchise up wonderfully to be a SC contender within the salary constraints by staggering contracts and adjusting his drafting/scouting team several years ago. Once again they are in a great position to make the playoffs on a shoe string budget only now the future looks brighter than ever.....all the while you continue to complain like......well, like you always have.

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03-15-2010, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck View Post
Im looking at what Phoenix has done and I don't see anything that I would want. They were not good for years and just now are reaching a level that the Predators and essentially been at for around 5 years.
I said the aggressive moves they've made in the last year...

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03-15-2010, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
I couldn't disagree more. I think Poile is setting this franchise up wonderfully to be a SC contender
Only time will tell if/when we get out of the first round.

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03-15-2010, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
I couldn't disagree more. I think Poile is setting this franchise up wonderfully to be a SC contender within the salary constraints by staggering contracts and adjusting his drafting/scouting team several years ago. Once again they are in a great position to make the playoffs on a shoe string budget only now the future looks brighter than ever.....all the while you continue to complain like......well, like you always have.
So this isn't new? Not having been over here very long, not sure who the complainers are but I know who the other people are from their screen names. Thanks for the heads up.

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03-15-2010, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I said the aggressive moves they've made in the last year...
Look at the aggressive moves Columbus made and where it got them this year.

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03-16-2010, 12:03 AM
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nope....and good to see ya fcm

let me add that i don't think having a very well thought out strategy and sticking to it is being stagnant. If you are a flake and have no clue what you are doing you might sway in the wind on every decision you make. But in my opinion that is exactly what we have seen out of the likes of Atlanta and Cloumbus........

Do you remember when there was outrage that we didn't get Hichcock but columbus did????? How'd that work out???

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03-16-2010, 12:03 AM
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"taking risks" like you seem to want gets you franchises like Columbus or the Rangers, or the Leafs.

Good teams that are competitive year in and year out build a firm foundation, with plans for "succession" from within and only use trades to fill an occasional need or to fill a hole created by injury to a key player.

Why have the Wings been so good for so long? Because as old parts wore out they had new ones ready to go from within the system. The Wings havent made a single blockbuster trade in years.

contrast them with San Jose, who has made multiple trades and free agent acquisitions and still hasnt made it out of the second round. Sure, that may well change this year, but it still shows that making bold moves and taking risks doesnt always yield dividends.

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03-16-2010, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I said the aggressive moves they've made in the last year...
We were aggressive when we sold the team as well. Other than Wolski for Mueller, Phoenix hasn't really done anything earthshattering because they wanted to make the team better.

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03-16-2010, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Look at the aggressive moves Columbus made and where it got them this year.
It's what separates the good, bad, and mediocre GMs. Who made the right moves?

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03-16-2010, 12:08 AM
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Im still confused why this is brought up. Is there not an influx of young talent on this team that Poile drafted?

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03-16-2010, 12:11 AM
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It's what separates the good, bad, and mediocre GMs. Who made the right moves?
you are missing the point. the "right moves" are to draft carefully and develop well, planning for player replacement over the years. that goes a whole lot farther to having a good team then making a bunch of "aggressive" trades.

name me one team that went from "mediocre" to "great" solely on the basis of trades.

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03-16-2010, 12:14 AM
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It's what separates the good, bad, and mediocre GMs. Who made the right moves?
So we've made the playoffs 4 out of 5 years, going for 5 out of 6 right now, been in the chase all 6 years. Columbus has made the playoffs once. So of all the GM's and teams that came into the league around the same time we did, who has done well in building their teams and who hasn't? It's always hard to compare teams that have been around for years versus expansion teams but let's narrow it down just for a moment.

From the 4 teams, Nashville, Atlanta, Columbus and Minnesota, who would you say has been the most consistent of the 4? Who has done the best job of building a team that competes year in and year out and keeps their home grown talent or does a good job of developing that talent? Who has done well at drafting players? Who's made good trades more often than not?

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03-16-2010, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's what separates the good, bad, and mediocre GMs. Who made the right moves?
not Holmgren, Cap Space is the name of the game in the new NHL & Flyer fans are irate

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03-16-2010, 12:15 AM
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It's fine people. You can rag on me because I'm not a big of fan of legwand and I don't like what Poile has done over the last 3 years.

But, I've stood by this team for the past 12 years, and I'll keep my opinions, and continue to cheer for the team.

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03-16-2010, 12:18 AM
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well u already know i disagree as for the other thread where we went on and on...
But find it weird they all are saying same thing i was? And not one fan agrees with you?
again you have big market expectations on one of the smallest market teams..

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03-16-2010, 12:19 AM
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you are missing the point. the "right moves" are to draft carefully and develop well, planning for player replacement over the years. that goes a whole lot farther to having a good team then making a bunch of "aggressive" trades.

name me one team that went from "mediocre" to "great" solely on the basis of trades.
I'm not saying it's trades alone. It's all of the above (trades, signings, resigns, drafting).

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03-16-2010, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
It's fine people. You can rag on me because I'm not a big of fan of legwand and I don't like what Poile has done over the last 3 years.

But, I've stood by this team for the past 12 years, and I'll keep my opinions, and continue to cheer for the team.
cop out. dont post your opinions and then get huffy when people disagree. nobody is questioning your status as a fan, or your loyalty. if you dont want to get told you are wrong, dont make statements that are just begging to be disagreed with

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03-16-2010, 12:23 AM
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I'm not saying it's trades alone. It's all of the above (trades, signings, resigns, drafting).
I'll rephrase then. Give me an example of a trade or series of moves(including free agent signings) that took a mediocre team and made them great.

Im not counting drafting because if you suck long enough (Pittsburgh, Chicago) great players eventually fall in your lap

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03-16-2010, 12:23 AM
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well u already know i disagree as for the other thread where we went on and on...
But find it weird they all are saying same thing i was? And not one fan agrees with you?
again you have big market expectations on one of the smallest market teams..
So making it out of the first round is too much to expect?

Poile holds the NHL record for most first rd exits by a GM-- I think. I've tried to do the research on it, but can't definitely say.

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03-16-2010, 12:27 AM
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Im still confused why this is brought up. Is there not an influx of young talent on this team that Poile drafted?
Well said, and let's not forget that back when Toronto was in the market for a gm, it was Poile who they tried to get first. No complaints from me with Poile, he is our secret weapon.

Any gm would look good with what Ray Shero has been given. At the beginning of this year we were apparently after Phil Kessel, but Toronto outbid us. After the trade Poile said that he thought Burke gave up way too much for Kessel. I'll bet Poile is laughing heartily as the Leafs are going to give the Bruins a top 3 pick, and the Bruins are still in the playoff hunt.

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03-16-2010, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
So making it out of the first round is too much to expect?

Poile holds the NHL record for most first rd exits by a GM-- I think. I've tried to do the research on it, but can't definitely say.
Must be doing something right if he's been around with just two franchises long enough to set that record...

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03-16-2010, 12:32 AM
  #24
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So making it out of the first round is too much to expect?

Poile holds the NHL record for most first rd exits by a GM-- I think. I've tried to do the research on it, but can't definitely say.

Id rather have a well ran team that competes every year then win a playoff round then suck ..
and lets not forget we are still a very young franchise lets look at teams around same age as us
Atlanta
Columbus
Minnesota
Phoenix
all around same age as us...
and we have done much better overall mostly with less money Why? bc our team management .

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03-16-2010, 12:33 AM
  #25
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I'll rephrase then. Give me an example of a trade or series of moves that took a mediocre team and made them great.

Im not counting drafting because if you suck long enough (Pittsburgh, Chicago) great players eventually fall in your lap
SJ for one. They had an opportunity to get Thornton cheaply, and went for it. Sure, they haven't won it all, but they have built a lot of excitement in a non-traditional market. Also a great trade for Boyle. Mixed in with some good drafting and depth moves, and they are sitting pretty.

Within San Jose's first 11 years of existence, they made it to the 2nd round 4 times. I honestly believe that's why they were able to make hockey work in a non-traditional market, buidling a big fan base, which allowed them to have a bigger budget.

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