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Old
06-14-2010, 11:02 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
Yes. However, I would trade away either one of the two 2nd rounders we have for Brian Lee.
The value may be there, but considering the crop of defensemen and centers in the draft, I'm not 100%. I'm still convinced that Scott Howson has something big up his sleeve for the draft.

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06-17-2010, 01:37 PM
  #102
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From the Ottawa Citizen
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...541/story.html
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Columbus Blue Jackets

The Blue Jackets have only made the playoffs once and that postseason appearance lasted all of four games. Attendance is sliding and Ohio State football remains the big ticket in town. There's instant pressure on incoming coach Scott Arniel to produce results. And with all due respect to former Senators centre Antoine Vermette, star left-winger Rick Nash is still waiting for a true first-line centre to arrive.

All of that has led to speculation the Blue Jackets could ship their fourth-overall pick to the Senators for Spezza. If it happened, a Spezza-Nash duo would cost the Blue Jackets a $14.8-million salary cap hit every season until 2014-15, meaning the Blue Jackets would need to unload some salary and an existing player or two to the Senators.

Who could the Blue Jackets offer in return? After a promising start to his NHL career, Gatineau native Derick Brassard -- the sixth-overall selection in 2006 -- has been injury prone and he has four years and $12.8 million remaining on his contract.

On the surface, the Senators would be giving up on the present for the future. (Defenceman Cam Fowler of the Ontario Hockey League's Windsor Spitfires and Orléans native Erik Gudbranson, who starred with the OHL's Kingston Frontenacs, are generally considered to be the 3-4 picks, behind Hall and Seguin).

But if Murray was able to dump some money in any deal, it could give him the flexibility to bring back Matt Cullen or to sign another unrestricted free-agent centre. Patrick Marleau, Olli Jokinen, Saku Koivu, Tomas Plekanec and former Senator Vaclav Prospal are the highest-scoring centres available.

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06-17-2010, 05:38 PM
  #103
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Could Portzline have 2 gigantic misses this close together?

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06-17-2010, 06:49 PM
  #104
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Trade Brassard? He's 10 lbs of muscle, a good dev coach, and a yr away from coming into his own.
I can wait. Next year is NOT 'the year' for our team.

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06-17-2010, 07:14 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Trade Brassard? He's 10 lbs of muscle, a good dev coach, and a yr away from coming into his own.
I can wait. Next year is NOT 'the year' for our team.
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06-17-2010, 08:34 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Trade Brassard? He's 10 lbs of muscle, a good dev coach, and a yr away from coming into his own.
I can wait. Next year is NOT 'the year' for our team.
You hope. You also hope he can ONE DAY be anywhere near as good as Spezza is NOW!

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06-17-2010, 08:57 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
You hope. You also hope he can ONE DAY be anywhere near as good as Spezza is NOW!
After which we will have zero money left for stud defensemen. Who, btw, won't be ready for prime time next year either even if Moore, Golubef, Savard etc. make solid strides each year.

Speeza is not the answer.

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06-17-2010, 09:00 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
After which we will have zero money left for stud defensemen. Who, btw, won't be ready for prime time next year either even if Moore, Golubef, Savard etc. make solid strides each year.

Speeza is not the answer.
What is the answer then? Obviously the status quo is not working.

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06-17-2010, 09:19 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
After which we will have zero money left for stud defensemen. Who, btw, won't be ready for prime time next year either even if Moore, Golubef, Savard etc. make solid strides each year.

Speeza is not the answer.
Yeah, and what will we have when Brassard FINALLY becomes as good as Spezza. If he ever even does become as good as Spezza. BTW, how old do you think Spezza is?


Spezza - 27 years old at the start of the 2010/2011 season - 464gp, 171g, 304a, 475pts

Brassard - 23 years old at the start of the 2010/2011 season - 127gp, 20g, 43a, 63pts


Yeah, that is a really tough call.

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Old
06-17-2010, 09:40 PM
  #110
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If you want to pay out another 7 million.. for a centre

just offer Marleau one more year than everyone else does...

Don't really know what I'm talking about honestly.. just don't want to give up on any of those young prospects for whom I have been waiting to see that "potential" become "Production".

Filatov, Voracek, Brassard,

#4 pick Fowler, Russell, Moore, Savard, Goulebef, Ruth, Weber

I am certainly willing to trade 2 firsts, and 2 seconds and Commie/ Juice for Spezza..

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06-17-2010, 09:51 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
You hope. You also hope he can ONE DAY be anywhere near as good as Spezza is NOW!
See the following response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaggerX View Post
After which we will have zero money left for stud defensemen. Who, btw, won't be ready for prime time next year either even if Moore, Golubef, Savard etc. make solid strides each year.

Speeza is not the answer.
After needing a stud Dman every off-season for three consecutive seasons, if Howson doesn't FINALLY land a stud defenseman this summer, I may just cancel my season tickets and move to an island.

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06-17-2010, 10:44 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
What is the answer then? Obviously the status quo is not working.

...which is PRECISELY why the status quo was changed by firing the old coach, firing all the assistants, and bringing in a brand new coach with all new assistants with zero prior connections to the Jackets franchise.

G-d almighty, how much blood has to be spilled before y'all are happy? Or do y'all just not think it through, and think "Well, we don't have the Cup yet, therefore MORE CHANGES! MORE MORE MORE MORE! Can't just wait to see if the changes already made will fix it! MORE! MORE MOREMOREMOREMOREMOREMORE! MOOORRRRREEE!!!!"


Hey, I hear Steve Yzerman played for some crappy teams; clearly that means he's a perpetual loser, right?

How about that Sidney Crosby guy? Yeah, they were last in the league after he came in. Trade the loser!

We need to get in a Proven Winner. Someone who got instant results, like that coach in Florida who got them to the Finals instantly. What was his name? Doug something? And we'll need a new GM too; someone who presided over a dynasty and thus knows how to manage elite talent. I hear there's this Sather guy available who qualifies.

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Last edited by Viqsi: 06-17-2010 at 10:50 PM.
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Old
06-17-2010, 11:07 PM
  #113
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You should consider the context of the conversation before wasting your time with that.
You were the one that said "Don't fire Hitch because he won the Cup 10 years ago"
and "We'll make the playoffs this season because we're not Atlanta"
and "TW, we don't need any free agents".

You've made your point clear Viq, you're fine with a crappy team.


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06-17-2010, 11:44 PM
  #114
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Ohh, I'm gonna have fun with this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
You should consider the context of the conversation before wasting your time with that.
You were the one that said "Don't fire Hitch because he won the Cup 10 years ago"
Feel free to find the post where I said this. I'll give you a hint: it doesn't exist. I didn't want Hitch fired immediately because I was not yet convinced that he'd "lost the team", and whatever his other faults he remained (and remains) a brilliant hockey tactician. It became obvious to me as well not too long before he was fired.

I don't mind him as an advisor (AWAY from the players), because I don't think his knowledge of the game was the problem - it was his communication skills and people skills. (And don't give me that "'Uncle Gary' didn't work so that won't work" mishegaas; he was still the guy in charge and everyone knew it, so that was never going to do a damn thing.)

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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
and "We'll make the playoffs this season because we're not Atlanta"
Again, feel free to find the post where I said this. Last I checked, it doesn't exist either. Every playoff prediction I had was that we had a good chance to make the playoffs, but that there were no guarantees. And, y'know, after Brassard fell apart under Hitch's pressure and Mason discovered he didn't know how to deal with success and Commodore found out his training program was focusing on the wrong areas and in the wrong ways and several other defensemen were injured... yeah, we found out just how little guarantees there are out there.

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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
and "TW, we don't need any free agents".
Find me the po-oh, hell, you know how the drill works by now. I seem to recall talking about how badly we needed a backup goaltender and how thrilled I was with Howson getting Garon.

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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
You've made your point clear Viq, you're fine with a crappy team.
Ha! Not hardly. I'm just not the sort to jump to rapid conclusions about ability (or lack thereof) of anybody at all, I believe in the old adage of "patience is a virtue", I try very hard to think long-term... and most importantly, Howson's moves, so far, have all made such good sense to me that I have a lot of trust in him (if I was the impatient jump-to-conclusion immediately type, I would have been proclaiming him "the next Ken Holland" about two years ago, and "the next Lou Lamoriello" a year after that).

I'm as frustrated with losses as anyone else - just ask folks in the chatroom. I just don't think that they're doomed to continue because we didn't trade for the flavor of the month or overhaul the entire roster or something. I don't get poisoned by watching a hideously crappy excuse for a "sports league" and assuming that that's the status quo of professional athletics. I don't look for the villain every time something goes wrong (well, okay, I do sometimes, but I've got it so that it's strictly short-term now ).

In short, I at least try to have a little long-term perspective and patience, because these things take time. History has always shown this. Trying to make things that generally aren't there happen quickly is the Doug MacLean way, and we've seen just how effective that is - sometimes in a blue moon it works, but most of the rest of the time you're setting yourself up for failure.

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06-17-2010, 11:57 PM
  #115
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My last response to you was as ridiculous as your initial response to me. That was my whole point.
I was responding to some idiot about Spezza when you decided to take your anger out on me. I'm not sure what you have against me, but I do not have anything against you. I don't hate anyone on here. So whatever.
If you know me, the point of most of what I say is geared towards making the Blue Jackets better. I thought that was clear.
You have a lovely way of twisting my words around, and you have done so for a long time now.

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06-18-2010, 12:06 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
My last response to you was as ridiculous as your initial response to me. That was my whole point.
I was responding to some idiot about Spezza when you decided to take your anger out on me. I'm not sure what you have against me, but I do not have anything against you. I don't hate anyone on here. So whatever.
If you know me, the point of most of what I say is geared towards making the Blue Jackets better. I thought that was clear.
You have a lovely way of twisting my words around, and you have done so for a long time now.
I'm allowed to rant. I'm under stress with my job because my boss is trying to shove me out, and frankly I hear folks find 'em entertaining.

I'm just kind of flabbergasted as to how we're somehow still in "status quo" after such a large overhaul to the coaching staff.

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06-18-2010, 12:11 AM
  #117
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I meant with player personnel, I should've specified that I suppose, oops.

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06-18-2010, 12:18 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
I meant with player personnel, I should've specified that I suppose, oops.
See, I'd like to see how our developing youngsters do under the new coaching staff before I conclude they're all worthless and ship 'em off for draft picks and Raffi Torres. That said, there is something to trading "potential ability" for "current ability"; it's just something you do carefully and under specific circumstances.

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06-18-2010, 01:53 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by 81Leafs50 View Post
I personally think that Spezza was a waste of a 2nd overall pick but with Nash on his line anything is possible.

If the Blue Jackets want him the price of Filitov and a 1st is way too steep. Filitov is going to be a very good sniper in the years to come.

Vermette, Voracek, and Stralman would be fair. Maybe a 2nd or a 3rd in there too but that's it.
....and i personally think that you are trolling.....and if we are giving opinions, i think that the 2nd overall pick this year was a great trade for phil (skate down the wing and shoot the puck, rinse, repeat) kessel

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06-18-2010, 05:32 AM
  #120
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No Spezza because it means no stud defenseman? Which stud defenseman do we think Howson is targeting? How exactly is he going to get him here? I mean, since we're all just thrashing this around on a message board, I'd like to see some ideas.

There are no stud d-men in free agency this offseason. Not to say there aren't some guys who could help. Who are some players Howson might target in trade and what might he offer? The only names I'm seeing on a regular basis come up as possible targets are Kaberle and Bieksa - one who used to qualify and one who never did.

(Maybe my definition of a "stud" is different than others'. Or maybe I'm overlooking the obvious - like by "stud," posters are meaning an old player who can't skate anymore who we're just going to send out to have sex for the purpose of procreation and the team receives cash in return.)

So, consider me on board with a Spezza possibility (assuming, I realize, that he's even going to be traded anywhere).

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Old
06-18-2010, 08:51 AM
  #121
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The funny thing is if you read the trade boards (full of 90% crap I know, but some of it is humorous crap!) the threads that include us getting a true #1 center all have one thing in common: fans of other central division teams do NOT want us to get a true #1 center. I know this isn't exactly an accurate method for gauging what we need and don't need, but I think that is the impression other teams fans get from watching us. We all (myself included) have been talking up Vermette and how he scored lots of points this year, but maybe he scored lots of points because of and not in spite of Nash. Personally if we could get Spezza for something reasonable (along the lines of 1st 2010, 2nd 2011, Huselius, Mayorov) I think we should do it.

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06-18-2010, 09:22 AM
  #122
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7 million for 5 years, I don't care who goes the other way the Jackets can't afford two players totaling 15 million (him and Nash). I'm not saying it won't happen but I'd say highly unlikely.

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06-18-2010, 09:25 AM
  #123
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Hawks went from failure to Stanley Cup in 2 years. Pens went from doormat to Cup finals in 3. Colorado has rebuilt its team in one year. it does not have to take a lot of time.

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06-18-2010, 09:44 AM
  #124
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Hawks went from failure to Stanley Cup in 2 years. Pens went from doormat to Cup finals in 3. Colorado has rebuilt its team in one year. it does not have to take a lot of time.
It's too late, it is taking a lot of time.

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06-18-2010, 02:22 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDM View Post
Hawks went from failure to Stanley Cup in 2 years. Pens went from doormat to Cup finals in 3. Colorado has rebuilt its team in one year. it does not have to take a lot of time.
This rather grossly misrepresents the amount of time that they spent as doormats. Remind me again how long Chicago's Cup drought was? And how many top-3 (hell, top-2) picks did Pittsburgh have in a row again?

And you're assuming that Colorado will have similar success next year - which was considered a safe assumption for us as well for this year. Oops.

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