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We need new coach - yes, yes

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Old
03-21-2010, 01:20 PM
  #51
guyincognito
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I've been complaining about Lemaire since the late 90's, (when about 80% of the people here weren't even watching), so if anyone has a problem with that, they can kindly go eat a dick.

Unless ILIVM and others think Rolston with Kovalchuk was brilliant coaching or something.

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03-21-2010, 01:26 PM
  #52
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And at least most of the Lemaire detractors on here have some reasoning behind their dislike, while the Sutter haters only give "he's a baby for going back to Alberta" or "he's boring, Lemaire has a personality"

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03-21-2010, 01:31 PM
  #53
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this team has gone through coaches like a prostitute goes through condoms. what this team needs isn't a new coach. it's coaching consistency. it's someone who'll be around to implement his plan.

i think the fans of this team would complain about any coach eventually. this team has made the playoffs every year since 1996. this team will almost always have a winning record.

sure they haven't played well in the post season recently. but slumps happen. get over it and enjoy the winning hockey. it won't be around forever.

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03-21-2010, 01:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Big#D View Post
this team has gone through coaches like a prostitute goes through condoms. what this team needs isn't a new coach. it's coaching consistency. it's someone who'll be around to implement his plan.

i think the fans of this team would complain about any coach eventually. this team has made the playoffs every year since 1996. this team will almost always have a winning record.

sure they haven't played well in the post season recently. but slumps happen. get over it and enjoy the winning hockey. it won't be around forever.
Hopefully as long as Zach Parise's around it will be.

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03-21-2010, 01:44 PM
  #55
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Hopefully as long as Zach Parise's around it will be.
probably. but given the history of the franchise, we should never look a gift horse in the mouth. i remember the days when this team was horrible. i hope it never goes back there but can't discount that it may one day happen again. i'll be thankful and enjoy my favourite team winning hockey every year until it stops.

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03-21-2010, 01:50 PM
  #56
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I don't see anyone firing a puck at his head in practice anytime soon, but he makes a lost of questionable decisions and there's no excuse for the PP being this bad. This 10-14-3 stretch wouldn't be as bad if the PP was operating at a respectable rate. It's losing us games. Straight up.

The Rolston experiment is done. End that ****. He belongs on the 3rd line. Aside from some nice backchecking efforts tonight, he looked brutal. Soft and no creativity.

I'd roll with Martin/Skoula and Greene/Salvador.

The forecheck has been nonexistent lately. The stretch pass crap is predictable and destined for failure. It doesn't work so scrap that crap. We were so good last year with our aggressive forecheck in forcing turnovers in the O-zone by pressuring the opposing d-men down low. It boggles the mind that we'd stray away from that.
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Originally Posted by rolstonisuseless View Post
when the coach puts ******** lines out there, they don't work, and he doesn't change them back, yes, it is the coaches fault. both of those lines were ****ing awful. it was ZZ Pops getting stoned, and then a gongshow.

I would have been more comfortable with Patty playing with the Dean and Pelley, at least they would have won a battle on the boards. then, after the game, he says he likes what he saw from that line? what?

Lemaire is ****ing awful, a blind chimp could coach this team to the playoffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolstonisuseless View Post
I've been complaining about Lemaire since the late 90's, (when about 80% of the people here weren't even watching), so if anyone has a problem with that, they can kindly go eat a dick.

Unless ILIVM and others think Rolston with Kovalchuk was brilliant coaching or something.
I posted this on the Rolston thread, but is germane to this discussion as well... So:

Okay, I've gotten into borderline internet fistfights with BrodeursCups defending Jacques Lemaire.

I think JL has gotten much better results out of this team than anyone could have expected, that there is tremendous value in his experience, and an absolute psychological benefit in being part of so many Stanley Cup winning teams. I generally approve of his in-game coaching decisions and he will practice his team harder after losses, which I think is good for discipline. I think he is funny and knows more about hockey than just about anyone in the game. I love the guy.

But, Jesus Christ, putting Brian Rolston on the Patty-Kovy line is utter lunacy in a hockey sense.

It disrupts the balance and effectiveness of BOTH the second and third lines and drives a dagger into the heart of our legitimate hopes for secondary scoring.

There are not enough "facepalm" emoticons in this world to express my displeasure with that decision.

Our lack of center depth has been well discussed, but essentially, if discussing "natural" positions, among our top 9 we have 1 true center, 4 left wings and 4 right wings.

Thankfully, one of the left wings (Elias) and two of the right wings (Niedermayer, Zubrus) can also play a respectable center. So, we have enough options to construct three genuinely dangerous lines that are balanced -- all with the pieces we have in stock on the roster (JimEIV's opinions to the contrary.)

And under that premise, the pieces break out pretty evenly and obviously into:

Parise - Zajac - Langenbrunner
Kovalchuk - Elias - Zubrus
Rolston - Niedermayer - Clarkson

Where we have "natural" left wingers playing left wing and "natural" right wingers playing right wing. So, despite a lack of true centers, we have as few players out of position as possible.

There is at least one dangler on each line, at least one puck possession guy and at least one guy who can play a solid defense (sometimes more than one.) And there is at least one guy willing to work the corners and crash the net and win the important puck battles.

So, each and every shift, all of these lines has a legit chance to score and also keep the other team from scoring.

By moving Brian Rolston out of position (to reward him for what, I am not certain), suddenly we have a second line composed entirely of LEFT wingers and a third line composed entirely of RIGHT wingers. All danglers on one, all bruisers on the other. One line cannot keep the puck in order to use their talents, and the other has no one to finish the play. Perfect.

And Jacques Lemaire LIKES this idea????? He wants to see it for A FEW MORE GAMES?????

I can totally understand rewarding someone like David Clarkson for being the only guy to show up against the Leafs. So maybe he gets some minutes with Kovy and Elias (boooing!, by the way, at that thought) and Zubrus slots in with Rolly and Nieder instead. No real downgrade for anybody in that circumstance. And all the lines remain balanced.

I do not care if Rolston had 4 shots or 400 playing with Elias and Kovalchuk, or how hard he skated, the idea is just plain wrong.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

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Old
03-21-2010, 05:30 PM
  #57
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Well said, Jerry. I think pretty much all of us will agree with you about moving Rolston to the second line.

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03-21-2010, 05:42 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkson Falls Down View Post
And at least most of the Lemaire detractors on here have some reasoning behind their dislike, while the Sutter haters only give "he's a baby for going back to Alberta" or "he's boring, Lemaire has a personality"
"Round 1 2008"
"Round 1 2009"

Not to mention all of his amateurish moves handling professional players. But he's doing well in Calgary.

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03-21-2010, 05:55 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Zhark View Post
"Round 1 2008"
"Round 1 2009"

Not to mention all of his amateurish moves handling professional players. But he's doing well in Calgary.
round 0 1996
1997 vs the Rangers (I don't even know if you should get credit for beating a sub .500 playoff team)
round 1 1998

if there wasn't all of this personal animosity, I would take him back the second he got fired (and he will get fired) and dump Lemaire. is it a ringing endorsement of Sutter? no, but at least he understood the system the team should play, until whatever happened last March happened.

what was really amateurish... the bikes? is that any worse than saying Mike Mottau handled the puck well or his endorsement of the black hole of suck line last night?

****, I'd have him back just to make Rolston's life miserable. "Well, he didn't like me, and my buddy Jacques is back, so now things will be different!"

uh huh. the difference is Jacques will play your useless ass instead of burying you to 5 minutes 5 on 5 in a playoff game.

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03-21-2010, 06:07 PM
  #60
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Well said, Jerry. I think pretty much all of us will agree with you about moving Rolston to the second line.
Lemaire has tendencies for unorthodox moves and there have been plenty of times where myself and I'm sure many have scratched their heads initially at one of his moves, but in the end, come to realize what and why he made the decision to begin with

Putting a "weaker player" so to say, with better players could help that player feed off of the better players and in the end result, a whole line benefits as a result.

Nobody's a dummy, and neither is Lemaire, everybody sees Rolston is playing like a true 37 year old getting paid $5m per season

At this point, Rolston is (like that guy's username) useless. We will of course be in the playoffs which are just weeks away. In these last few weeks, it's crunch time for the weaker players to prove they belong on the playoff roster. Lemaire here was just trying to give Rolston maybe a little boost before the playoffs to see if he can get going a bit and if it works, great, if not, there are other options. I understand we can move up in the conference with just 1 win, and it would sure as hell be nice to get a higher seed and play a lower seeded team, but there is a time where we have to get a feel for those weaker guys as to where they'll be. I'm sure you can agree you'd rather see the testing of certain players now rather then in the playoffs and like I said, if Rolston gets that boost, it helps the team as a whole and supports his TOI in the playoffs

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03-21-2010, 06:19 PM
  #61
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My only issue with JL is his line shuffling. You read him saying things like " they have good chemistry, they compliment each other well" then he goes and changes everything the next game! There is no doubt he is doing a lot for us. You can see our young guys playing like they have been in the league for years. He just needs to stick to 4 sets of lines and keep em that way so that there actually is a chance for chemistry to form and what not. How is Kovy supposed to get comfortable 100% when he has a new line mate every shift??

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03-21-2010, 08:51 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolstonisuseless View Post
round 0 1996
1997 vs the Rangers (I don't even know if you should get credit for beating a sub .500 playoff team)
round 1 1998

if there wasn't all of this personal animosity, I would take him back the second he got fired (and he will get fired) and dump Lemaire. is it a ringing endorsement of Sutter? no, but at least he understood the system the team should play, until whatever happened last March happened.

what was really amateurish... the bikes? is that any worse than saying Mike Mottau handled the puck well or his endorsement of the black hole of suck line last night?

****, I'd have him back just to make Rolston's life miserable. "Well, he didn't like me, and my buddy Jacques is back, so now things will be different!"

uh huh. the difference is Jacques will play your useless ass instead of burying you to 5 minutes 5 on 5 in a playoff game.
I'm not really endorsing Jacques, but I wouldn't take Sutter back until he proves that he can coach at the NHL level. And he hasn't.

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03-21-2010, 09:02 PM
  #63
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Sutter had the system better suited to our team, Lemaire is the better coach.

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03-21-2010, 09:10 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Zhark View Post
I'm not really endorsing Jacques, but I wouldn't take Sutter back until he proves that he can coach at the NHL level. And he hasn't.
sans Larry Robinson, Jacques really hasn't proven it either. he's just had the benefit of coaching an expansion team, which wasn't awful from the beginning. just mediocre, except a fluke double 3-1 comeback.

seriously, remove 94-95 from his coaching record, and it's not that impressive. and that's the moment Larry jumped ship to LA and he replaced him with the bathing suit thief.

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03-21-2010, 09:14 PM
  #65
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Lemaire is so frustrating. His line combos are extremely questionable and as funny as his post game comments are sometimes they're just blatantly incorrect. He needs to cut the mind games and experiments. Get back to what he was doing at the beginning of the season.

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03-21-2010, 09:39 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by rolstonisuseless View Post
I've been complaining about Lemaire since the late 90's, (when about 80% of the people here weren't even watching), so if anyone has a problem with that, they can kindly go eat a dick.

Unless ILIVM and others think Rolston with Kovalchuk was brilliant coaching or something.
Hey I hate on Rolston with the best of em. Maybe I did go a bit overboard this morning with my lashing out at people asking for the head of our coach that will most likely bring us to a 2nd seed.

Call me crazy, but I still think we will catch Pittsburgh.

What baffles me about Lemaire is the bingo balling of lines and ignoring some obvious combos that have worked very well.

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03-21-2010, 09:44 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by ILikeItVeryMuch View Post
Hey I hate on Rolston with the best of em. Maybe I did go a bit overboard this morning with my lashing out at people asking for the head of our coach that will most likely bring us to a 2nd seed.

Call me crazy, but I still think we will catch Pittsburgh.

What baffles me about Lemaire is the bingo balling of lines and ignoring some obvious combos that have worked very well.
there's probably people here that would do decently with the team, if the players took them seriously.

it's not that hard to do well in one-offs when your goalie is Martin Brodeur. regular season hockey coaching is overrated... that's why these people get fired like 18 year olds working at big box stores

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03-21-2010, 09:47 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
Lemaire has tendencies for unorthodox moves and there have been plenty of times where myself and I'm sure many have scratched their heads initially at one of his moves, but in the end, come to realize what and why he made the decision to begin with

Putting a "weaker player" so to say, with better players could help that player feed off of the better players and in the end result, a whole line benefits as a result.

Nobody's a dummy, and neither is Lemaire, everybody sees Rolston is playing like a true 37 year old getting paid $5m per season

At this point, Rolston is (like that guy's username) useless. We will of course be in the playoffs which are just weeks away. In these last few weeks, it's crunch time for the weaker players to prove they belong on the playoff roster. Lemaire here was just trying to give Rolston maybe a little boost before the playoffs to see if he can get going a bit and if it works, great, if not, there are other options. I understand we can move up in the conference with just 1 win, and it would sure as hell be nice to get a higher seed and play a lower seeded team, but there is a time where we have to get a feel for those weaker guys as to where they'll be. I'm sure you can agree you'd rather see the testing of certain players now rather then in the playoffs and like I said, if Rolston gets that boost, it helps the team as a whole and supports his TOI in the playoffs
Clarkson, who had 5 points in 6 games prior to last night's shut out, was interviewed about 90 minutes before gametime saying how he was benefiting playing with Niedermayer and Rolston, veteran players whose styles complimented his own.

He particularly singled out Rolly as someone he clicked with (and quite frankly, Clarkie may be the only player to have any chemistry with Winky on the entire team.)

Clearly there is a legitimate roll here for Rolston -- on the third line with Clarkson -- which given time would make him far less useless.

Trying to get "the weaker player" going at the expense of Elias and Kovalchuk, who are trying to develop their own thing together (which is itself still a work in progress), is just ********.

I generally do not mind Jacque Lemaire doing head scratching stuff, pulled either from his gut or out of his butt (depending on one's point of view), but this is exasperating.

Because I have a ton emotionally invested in Kovalchuk and Elias making magic together.

And have long ago abandoned any notion of Brian Rolston cracking our top 6. So, him actually finding suitable linemates on the third line seems like a bonus, not a problem.

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03-21-2010, 09:49 PM
  #69
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He's trying to get the garbage "going" when it has not shot of "going." Not even if we had the Sedins on a line with Rolston would he pick it up because the Sedins are superb on the cycle and playing through contact down low. That's why Burrows works with them. Rolston would just get muscled off every puck. The ship has sailed. Place him on the third line with Nieds and Clarkson and that'll be that. Having him in the top-6 just ruins a line that we need scoring.

Remember when we had all the injuries and ZZZ was dominating? Then he breaks up the line and moves Zubrus to try get others going thus, instead of one dominant line, we had 4 lines of nothing. It makes zero sense.

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03-21-2010, 09:52 PM
  #70
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Rolston is no longer a top 6 player on a playoff calibre team. It's that simple. He works best with Clarkson, and I hope Lemaire recognises that soon.

Horrifyingly, he seems to think that the experiment of Rolston with Kovalchuk and Elias worked, and wants to try it again. How did Rolston go from basically being a healthy scratch to being rewarded with time with Kovalchuk and Elias? It's mind-boggling.

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03-21-2010, 10:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by JerryGigantic View Post
Clarkson, who had 5 points in 6 games prior to last night's shut out, was interviewed about 90 minutes before gametime saying how he was benefiting playing with Niedermayer and Rolston, veteran players whose styles complimented his own.

He particularly singled out Rolly as someone he clicked with (and quite frankly, Clarkie may be the only player to have any chemistry with Winky on the entire team.)

Clearly there is a legitimate roll here for Rolston -- on the third line with Clarkson -- which given time would make him far less useless.

Trying to get "the weaker player" going at the expense of Elias and Kovalchuk, who are trying to develop their own thing together (which is itself still a work in progress), is just ********.

I generally do not mind Jacque Lemaire doing head scratching stuff, pulled either from his gut or out of his butt (depending on one's point of view), but this is exasperating.

Because I have a ton emotionally invested in Kovalchuk and Elias making magic together.

And have long ago abandoned any notion of Brian Rolston cracking our top 6. So, him actually finding suitable linemates on the third line seems like a bonus, not a problem.
The only problem is, Rolston wasn't producing on that line, and what I was trying to get across in my post was that due to his bad production, Lemaire wanted to just try to get him going, and once he had some confidence back, put him back with the chemistry he had for the playoffs. This is going to be just a few game experiment to see if Rolston can feed off of others or whether he really is coming to a crossroad in his career and these few games will determine where Rolston will be used in the playoffs...

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03-21-2010, 10:17 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
The only problem is, Rolston wasn't producing on that line, and what I was trying to get across in my post was that due to his bad production, Lemaire wanted to just try to get him going, and once he had some confidence back, put him back with the chemistry he had for the playoffs. This is going to be just a few game experiment to see if Rolston can feed off of others or whether he really is coming to a crossroad in his career and these few games will determine where Rolston will be used in the playoffs...
I really hope you're right, and Rolston isn't being permanently moved to that line. He needs to go back to our third line, and Zubrus needs to go back to the top 6. The experiment is a failure, and we need to go back to the lineup that worked.

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03-21-2010, 10:58 PM
  #73
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I really hope you're right, and Rolston isn't being permanently moved to that line. He needs to go back to our third line, and Zubrus needs to go back to the top 6. The experiment is a failure, and we need to go back to the lineup that worked.
Personally, I highly doubt the second line is going to be Rolston's new home. A temporary thing most likely, I mean especially the way the team played against the Leafs and then not playing great against the Blues with the help of Conklin having a good game, Lemaire needed to switch things up but at the same time, try to get Rolston going (2 pts in last 14 I believe) if he wants to see ice time come the playoffs

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03-22-2010, 12:35 PM
  #74
kyle evs48
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So I just stopped and looked at something very simple.

Our coach is still experimenting with lines in late March.

What the hell?

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03-22-2010, 12:39 PM
  #75
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Quote:
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So I just stopped and looked at something very simple.

Our coach is still experimenting with lines in late March.

What the hell?
The offensive production is inconsistent. When that happens, Lemaire's go to move is to shuffle the lines.

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