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#72: Thrashers @ Flyers - March 21, 2010 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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03-21-2010, 10:37 PM
  #526
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I had Craig Anderson picked out and penciled into the lineup even with Emery signed.
Yeah, well, Craig Anderson had himself penciled in as the starter in Colorado, so he wasn't an option.

Next?

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This is where we're fundamentally going to disagree. I'm on record all season stating that Boucher is an AHL goalie. Nothing I have seen this season has shown me that he is anything but an AHL goalie.

Leighton wasn't here to start the season, so it still goes back to when Holmgren panicked and had to get Boucher on July 1 instead of, I don't know, actually getting up off his ass and talk to other agents of goalies and what they might be looking for.
At some point, you probably just need to accept that your have an irrational dislike of Boucher. He was fine when he first stepped in for Emery prior to injuring his thumb.

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There was no excuses this season, that includes the backup goalie not being up to adequate standard.
What the F is your adequate standard for a backup goalie? Winning 1-0 games? Really?

Seriously, that's ridiculous.

Mine is "not cost you games." Giving up 3 goals, even if there are some weak ones, isn't costing you the game...go get 3 goals if you want to win.

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03-21-2010, 10:38 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And you know what else is true? When you don't win games where you only scored 1 goal...it isn't the goalie's fault. If you manage to win those games, you managed to win because of him, and despite the failure of your offense.

I mean, seriously, you're argument is that Boucher is at fault for not pitching a shutout/1-goal game.
Guess what, it happens. Both teams (supposedly) have a goalie and defense where they expect to hold the other team to one goal. Sometimes it happens, and a lot in the same game. Better find a way to pull out 2-1 wins or 3-2 OT wins, or it's going to be a short playoff run. Doesn't stop the Flyers from changing goalies every other year, so why should it stop the rest of us for calling them out on it?

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03-21-2010, 10:38 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And you know what else is true? When you don't win games where you only scored 1 goal...it isn't the goalie's fault. If you manage to win those games, you managed to win because of him, and despite the failure of your offense.

I mean, seriously, you're argument is that Boucher is at fault for not pitching a shutout/1-goal game.
I guess that year when Clemens had a sub 2.00 ERA but only won 10 games because Houston sucked, every loss was his fault...

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03-21-2010, 10:41 PM
  #529
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maybe the best thing to happen to this organization will be to miss the playoffs this season. Maybe then someone upstairs will start to get it.
I said it 3 months ago and I say it now I still dont think this team is good enough as constructed.
This isnt just about the goaltending either. It goes beyond that.

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03-21-2010, 10:41 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, well, Craig Anderson had himself penciled in as the starter in Colorado, so he wasn't an option.



Next?
Anybody else.


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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
At some point, you probably just need to accept that your have an irrational dislike of Boucher. He was fine when he first stepped in for Emery prior to injuring his thumb.
Of course I dislike him. Because he blows. And he's on our NHL roster (all season).

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post

What the F is your adequate standard for a backup goalie? Winning 1-0 games? Really?

Seriously, that's ridiculous.

Mine is "not cost you games." Giving up 3 goals, even if there are some weak ones, isn't costing you the game...go get 3 goals if you want to win.
Not giving up weak goals when your team needs you to make a save. One happens, I get that. Two absolutely cannot happen.

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03-21-2010, 10:43 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Jester, if I remember correctly, you were ALL OVER Leighton during that 1-0 loss to Edmonton. You went on to say that sometimes the offense cant score goals but the goalies cant let in those soft goals. Now your on the other side of the fence, saying our offense just needs to score goals.
Not really on the other side of the fence. The argument at the time was that Leighton wasn't good enough to be our starter going forward and that was a clear example of it. Boucher isn't good enough, and we're not going anywhere with him. However, that's not Boucher's fault...he is what he is...a backup and nothing more. Not Leighton's fault he isn't good enough either, but he isn't.

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03-21-2010, 10:45 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Anybody else.
Who? Seriously, who. Who would be better?

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Of course I dislike him. Because he blows. And he's on our NHL roster (all season).
You don't just dislike him, you irrationally dislike him.

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Not giving up weak goals when your team needs you to make a save. One happens, I get that. Two absolutely cannot happen.
He--like every other non-starting goalie in the NHL--isn't a starter for a reason. That's why.

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03-21-2010, 10:46 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Sometimes you need to win games when you score only 1 goal through 52 minutes of play in the games that really count. If you're unable to win that game, it's very unlikely you can win a playoff series let alone the Stanley Cup.
Not only are you demanding our backup pitch a shutout, but you're acting as if that should have been an thing to do tonight.

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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
This is where we're fundamentally going to disagree. I'm on record all season stating that Boucher is an AHL goalie. Nothing I have seen this season has shown me that he is anything but an AHL goalie.

There was no excuses this season, that includes the backup goalie not being up to adequate standard.
Adequate standard for a backup goalie for you is a shutout? That's pretty tough.

I can understand the argument that you're using if we were talking about a top starter that was in net today instead of Boosh (because being able to win 1-0 games is the reason those kinds of guys are top starters to begin with), but you're using that argument when we had Boosh in net. Boosh is the quintessential backup. Nothing more then that. It would be unreasonable to ask any team's backup to win a game 1-0. Heck, technically Boosh is our 3rd string goalie because of Leighton.

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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Jester, if I remember correctly, you were ALL OVER Leighton during that 1-0 loss to Edmonton. You went on to say that sometimes the offense cant score goals but the goalies cant let in those soft goals. Now your on the other side of the fence, saying our offense just needs to score goals.
I remember that topic very clearly. Me and other posters like Jester were saying that it was a weak goal and that it did in fact cost us a point (it was a 1-goal game with a few seconds left against the worst team in the league). At the same time we also admitted that the game wasn't Leighton's fault at all. We were just calling it a bad goal because it was a bad goal.


It's the same thing here, kind of. Boosh did let in a bad goal or two, but there's no way that you can blame the game on him.

EDIT: Also, like Jester said, at the time of the Edmonton game there was a lot of debate about whether Leighton could be a starter and that was the catalyst for the discussion after that game. We all kind of accept Boosh shouldn't be our starter.

For the record, I agree with Jester that, for whatever reason, some people just have an irrational hatred for Boosh while other have some odd liking for Leighton. Boosh is what he is, a quintessential backup. I don't see how he's a hack. He's the standard journeyman backup.


Last edited by Garbage Goal: 03-21-2010 at 10:51 PM.
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03-21-2010, 10:50 PM
  #534
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Who? Seriously, who. Who would be better?

Niitymaki?

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03-21-2010, 10:51 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Who? Seriously, who. Who would be better?
Mathieu Garon.


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You don't just dislike him, you irrationally dislike him.
I don't like him because he sucks. Not many people like bad players who play for their team and **** the bed.


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He--like every other non-starting goalie in the NHL--isn't a starter for a reason. That's why.
But he was signed because the team felt that he would carry the load if Emery didn't work out. There's a difference between being the guy who makes a spot start once a month (barring injury), and being the a Plan B because you feel there's a chance Plan A won't work out.

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03-21-2010, 10:53 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Who? Seriously, who. Who would be better?



You don't just dislike him, you irrationally dislike him.



He--like every other non-starting goalie in the NHL--isn't a starter for a reason. That's why.
It's like punching the following, isn't it?


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03-21-2010, 10:53 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Not only are you demanding our backup pitch a shutout, but you're acting as if that should have been an thing to do tonight.



Adequate standard for a backup goalie for you is a shutout? That's pretty tough.

I can understand the argument that you're using if we were talking about a top starter that was in net today instead of Boosh (because being able to win 1-0 games is the reason those kinds of guys are top starters to begin with), but you're using that argument when we had Boosh in net. Boosh is the quintessential backup. Nothing more then that. It would be unreasonable to ask any team's backup to win a game 1-0. Heck, technically Boosh is our 3rd string goalie because of Leighton.
I'm demanding he make the saves on Todd White and Rich Peveley. I'm not asking him to steal the game. You rip Leighton, and I keep saying while he wasn't taking us to the promised land, at least he was coming up with those saves (ask the Blackhawks and Devils). He isn't here now, we can't change that. But some of these aren't difficult.

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03-21-2010, 10:59 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Mathieu Garon.


.
Garon? seriously? he friggin blows.

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03-21-2010, 10:59 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I'm demanding he make the saves on Todd White and Rich Peveley. I'm not asking him to steal the game. You rip Leighton, and I keep saying while he wasn't taking us to the promised land, at least he was coming up with those saves (ask the Blackhawks and Devils). He isn't here now, we can't change that. But some of these aren't difficult.
I don't care if a backup goalie steps out of the net to take a piss and the other team scores while he's doing his thing. If the final score is 1-0 in a post-lockout NHL game, then the loss isn't the goalies fault.

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03-21-2010, 10:59 PM
  #540
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Niitymaki?
He was done here...though, I would have welcomed him back as a backup.

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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Mathieu Garon.
OK, so a guy that signed for more than Boucher and was coming off a pretty crappy season. Seriously, look at what they've done the last couple of years...no reason to value Garon over Boucher on play, and then factor in that we were shaving every single dollar we could last summer.

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I don't like him because he sucks. Not many people like bad players who play for their team and **** the bed.
3 goals is ****ting the bed? Seriously?

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But he was signed because the team felt that he would carry the load if Emery didn't work out. There's a difference between being the guy who makes a spot start once a month (barring injury), and being the a Plan B because you feel there's a chance Plan A won't work out.
Honestly, you think Holmgren really thought he could carry the load as a Plan B? I mean, he might have, but even I don't think he's that stupid. He was up against the cap with limited options. I certainly wouldn't be excited about Garon carrying the load.

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03-21-2010, 11:01 PM
  #541
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Welcome Boosh to the scapegoat seat. Vandermeer, Tollefsen, Stevens, Coburn and Jones left it warm for you.

Sure, he's not great but we scored 3 goals in 2 nights. Brodeur wouldn't be winning. I think people on here have unrealistic expectations of players. It ain't Boucher's fault he's out his depth.

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03-21-2010, 11:01 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I'm demanding he make the saves on Todd White and Rich Peveley. I'm not asking him to steal the game. You rip Leighton, and I keep saying while he wasn't taking us to the promised land, at least he was coming up with those saves (ask the Blackhawks and Devils). He isn't here now, we can't change that. But some of these aren't difficult.
I think he should have gotten one of the two at least. Like Jester has said, the guy is the quintessential backup and although he was our backup to start the year he is pretty much our 3rd string goalie at this point. I don't fault our 3rd string goalie/backup for giving up a bad goal every once in a while, especially considering he did perfectly fine the previous two games. However, even if Boosh let in two goals we still would have lost most likely because we only scored on goal. The offense needs to be better then that and the whole team needs to stop coming out flat for the first one or two periods.

I never ripped Leighton. I just stated that he wasn't an actual starter in the NHL, which some people disagreed with. I think Leighton is about as good as Boosh, the only real difference to me is that Leighton is better suited for this team.

EDIT: Also, I don't really care how soft the goals he gives up are. Any time he gives up two goals are less he's done well. Three goals, which is what he allowed, is the gray area between good and bad, but considering he's supposed to be our backup that's actually just kind of mediocre for him.

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03-21-2010, 11:02 PM
  #543
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Garon? seriously? he friggin blows.
He's done admirably for the Blue Jackets this season.

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03-21-2010, 11:04 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Welcome Boosh to the scapegoat seat. Vandermeer, Tollefsen, Stevens, Coburn and Jones left it warm for you.

Sure, he's not great but we scored 3 goals in 2 nights. Brodeur wouldn't be winning. I think people on here have unrealistic expectations of players. It ain't Boucher's fault he's out his depth.
I agree with most of what you said, but Tollefsen, Jones, and Stevens all did in fact suck and deserved to be scapegoats. Coburn, when he is a scapegoat, usually deserves it as well. In this instance, I don't think Boosh deserves it.

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03-21-2010, 11:07 PM
  #545
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i love boosh and this time of year i get even more homerish than usual but WTF!!!!!!!! tonight the difference was goaltending and the differance that great goaltending can make. what made boosh look even more shamefull was pavelecs near invincible performance. look on the bright side we could be starting duschene

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03-21-2010, 11:09 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Welcome Boosh to the scapegoat seat. Vandermeer, Tollefsen, Stevens, Coburn and Jones left it warm for you.

Sure, he's not great but we scored 3 goals in 2 nights. Brodeur wouldn't be winning. I think people on here have unrealistic expectations of players. It ain't Boucher's fault he's out his depth.
I pointed it out earlier. It isnt just the last 2 games. the last 10 games they have scored 22 goals. Some people want to put all the blame on the goaltending?
REALLY? give me a freakin break.

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03-21-2010, 11:10 PM
  #547
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I think he should have gotten one of the two at least. Like Jester has said, the guy is the quintessential backup and although he was our backup to start the year he is pretty much our 3rd string goalie at this point. I don't fault our 3rd string goalie/backup for giving up a bad goal every once in a while, especially considering he did perfectly fine the previous two games. However, even if Boosh let in two goals we still would have lost most likely because we only scored on goal. The offense needs to be better then that and the whole team needs to stop coming out flat for the first one or two periods.

I never ripped Leighton. I just stated that he wasn't an actual starter in the NHL, which some people disagreed with. I think Leighton is about as good as Boosh, the only real difference to me is that Leighton is better suited for this team.
No one said the offense doesn't need to be better. The goaltender needs to be better too. You want to be in the NHL man, come up with it when your team absolutely has to have it from you. Bad goals deflate a team no matter who it's supposed to be in net.

Some of you guys know me long enough that I wouldn't tear apart a goalie like this if I didn't think he was truly awful.

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03-21-2010, 11:10 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i love boosh and this time of year i get even more homerish than usual but WTF!!!!!!!! tonight the difference was goaltending and the differance that great goaltending can make. what made boosh look even more shamefull was pavelecs near invincible performance. look on the bright side we could be starting duschene


I can't believe any can blame the game on Boosh. One or two of the goals he let in, sure, but the game?

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03-21-2010, 11:14 PM
  #549
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No one said the offense doesn't need to be better. The goaltender needs to be better too. You want to be in the NHL man, come up with it when your team absolutely has to have it from you. Bad goals deflate a team no matter who it's supposed to be in net.

Some of you guys know me long enough that I wouldn't tear apart a goalie like this if I didn't think he was truly awful.
No offense, but you can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that he's a backup. That's what he is. He's bound to let in a bad goal every once in a while. He did perfectly fine the two games before this and was a huge part of our last win in Dallas. I can forgive this game considering that if he doesn't let the third goal in then I have no problem with his performance.

Like I've said so many times now, I can see blaming a goal or two on him, but it's insane to blame the entire game on him.

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03-21-2010, 11:16 PM
  #550
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Let's all be honest with our selves this team isn't/wasn't going anywhere with Bouch or Leighton. It's questionable they could go anywhere with Emery. I don't know what it's about this team but even with all the talent on paper they are maddeningly inconsistent defensively and even more so offensively. The way this team has performed over the past 72 games I don't see how they could possibly have a deep playoff run let alone a Cup win short of Vezina winning level goal tending.

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