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Wake-up Call

View Poll Results: What should be done?
Fire TMac 37 27.01%
Scratch some of the "star" players 60 43.80%
Change captaincy 34 24.82%
Nothing 44 32.12%
Other 28 20.44%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-22-2010, 05:44 PM
  #126
dumpnchase
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
I guess this is all fantasyland, but Hitch makes a lot of sense.
The Sharks should name, Andy "Captain Insano" Murray as the new head coach he will get the Sharks at least through the playoffs. This would be a good wakeup call, and this group will play good for a new coach for at least 20-30 games we need for a good playoff run who cares what happens after that.

Hitch wouldn't work because he would want to change things too much and would just want to grind it out.

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Old
03-22-2010, 05:54 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by dumpnchase View Post
The Sharks should name, Andy "Captain Insano" Murray as the new head coach he will get the Sharks at least through the playoffs. This would be a good wakeup call, and this group will play good for a new coach for at least 20-30 games we need for a good playoff run who cares what happens after that.

Hitch wouldn't work because he would want to change things too much and would just want to grind it out.
Which is exactly what this team would succeed and has succeeded at. A simple dump, chase, and grinding game. Hitch would also want all the guys on the ice collapsing back to the net and that's exactly what would remedy their defensive woes because it really cuts the ice down and they need that because most of their defensemen are drifting too far out.

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Old
03-22-2010, 06:21 PM
  #128
dumpnchase
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Which is exactly what this team would succeed and has succeeded at. A simple dump, chase, and grinding game. Hitch would also want all the guys on the ice collapsing back to the net and that's exactly what would remedy their defensive woes because it really cuts the ice down and they need that because most of their defensemen are drifting too far out.
This team has too much talent to be wasting it playing dump and chase, we need them to crash the net more often, and be willing to play in front of the hockey. I'll agree that he'll hep stabilize our defense.

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Old
03-22-2010, 06:27 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by dumpnchase View Post
This team has too much talent to be wasting it playing dump and chase, we need them to crash the net more often, and be willing to play in front of the hockey. I'll agree that he'll hep stabilize our defense.
The irony of a guy nicknamed dumpnchase arguing against just that.

Anyway, I don't think any of this is going to happen, and probably shouldn't. Changing the coach in the last 10 games is a recipe for disaster. The players will not have time to learn and buy into a new system.

I haven't had any real hope for this team all year, so IMO just get it right next season at this point...

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Old
03-22-2010, 06:49 PM
  #130
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Seems a bit late into the game to be installing a new system

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03-22-2010, 06:49 PM
  #131
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hockeyball, if they fail early this postseason, there going to be a fringe playoff team next season.

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03-22-2010, 07:11 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
This is really part and parcel of TM's "just keep shooting the puck on net" startegy and points out, IMHO, the biggest shortcoming of McLellan - inability to adapt.

That strategy led to regular 40+ shot performances and offensive blowouts last season - but as the year went on, other teams adjusted and TM seemed unwilling/unable to adjust to other teams adjustments.

The Sharks became predictable.

This became painfully obvious against Anaheim. The Ducks were able to shutdown the Sharks Power Play (4 for 23) and then take physical liberty with little or no consequence. Yet, I saw no sign of TM making any adjustments.

Now, all TMs adjustments seemed to be borrowed from Ron Wilson's line change wheel of fortune rather than trying to get some stable set of lines to adjust their play and execution. It basically comes across as flailing.

The only scenerio that could work now, though, would be for DW to pull a LL and put himself completely on the spot - and face it, he already is. If this swoon continues and the Sharks go out in the first round, DW is as good as gone.

The players may have zoned out on TM and feel they have to accountability to TM - but that would likely change very quickly if their GM were staring at them on the bench.
I like the idea of GM being on the bench and scaring the sheet out of the players..... the problem is, why would they be scared of him? he's already promised to move them out for not performing and hasn't.

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03-22-2010, 08:01 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by poppap527 View Post
hockeyball, if they fail early this postseason, there going to be a fringe playoff team next season.
IF we fail in the playoffs, i sure hope we will be rebuliding. So yes, we will be going in as a 8th seed or barely squeaking in. If we qualify for the playoffs.

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Old
03-22-2010, 09:00 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by dumpnchase View Post
This team has too much talent to be wasting it playing dump and chase, we need them to crash the net more often, and be willing to play in front of the hockey. I'll agree that he'll hep stabilize our defense.
This team definitely has the talent up front to carry it in. However, they don't have the speed and awareness on the backend to cover up for the massive amount of high turnovers this team does. The reason why Hitch would work is because the dump and chase is to save this team from itself and those high zone turnovers. A dump and chase entry is actually better for this club because it caters to what gets them engaged and generally winning games. There's a lot of confusion out there and it looks like because nobody really knows when they're going to carry it in or when they're going to shoot the puck in. When things aren't going for you, simplify it. Dump and chase. Turn the D. Work them on the boards which this team is very good at and prevent high zone turnovers.

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Old
03-22-2010, 09:12 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Now, all TMs adjustments seemed to be borrowed from Ron Wilson's line change wheel of fortune rather than trying to get some stable set of lines to adjust their play and execution. It basically comes across as flailing.
During a game, a coach can manage line combinations and playing time. He can't stop a game, pull his team aside, and go over play breakdowns in detail while the other team and fans sit there patiently and wait. It isn't flailing, it's just one of the few tools a coach has during a game.

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Old
03-22-2010, 09:18 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
This team definitely has the talent up front to carry it in. However, they don't have the speed and awareness on the backend to cover up for the massive amount of high turnovers this team does. The reason why Hitch would work is because the dump and chase is to save this team from itself and those high zone turnovers. A dump and chase entry is actually better for this club because it caters to what gets them engaged and generally winning games. There's a lot of confusion out there and it looks like because nobody really knows when they're going to carry it in or when they're going to shoot the puck in. When things aren't going for you, simplify it. Dump and chase. Turn the D. Work them on the boards which this team is very good at and prevent high zone turnovers.
Nice analysis PF. I'll add that TMac should have been going to a dump and chase style with this D being in such bad shape. The games should be boring because TMac is altering the style to his team as currently assembled, not boring because he sticks with the same system that doesn't seem to work with the current group, especially the defense, and Sharks can't get anything going in either end and fall 2, 3, or 4-0 to everyone before they can get something going.

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Old
03-22-2010, 09:32 PM
  #137
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It also doesn't help when you turn over the puck you and coast to the bench rather than try to fix your mistake ...

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03-22-2010, 09:35 PM
  #138
sdh
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
This team definitely has the talent up front to carry it in. However, they don't have the speed and awareness on the backend to cover up for the massive amount of high turnovers this team does. The reason why Hitch would work is because the dump and chase is to save this team from itself and those high zone turnovers. A dump and chase entry is actually better for this club because it caters to what gets them engaged and generally winning games. There's a lot of confusion out there and it looks like because nobody really knows when they're going to carry it in or when they're going to shoot the puck in. When things aren't going for you, simplify it. Dump and chase. Turn the D. Work them on the boards which this team is very good at and prevent high zone turnovers.
High zone turnovers are a direct result of trying to carry the puck into the zone against a trapping defense or a defense that spans the blue line.

This team has the talent to make a dump in game really work. We have fast players with size which means we'll win races and when we don't we'll supply a beating. Dump and chase is the boxing equivalent to body punches. It isn't sexy, but it wears down your opponent. Once you've slowed them down you can impose your will.

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03-22-2010, 09:36 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by dumpnchase View Post
This team has too much talent to be wasting it playing dump and chase, we need them to crash the net more often, and be willing to play in front of the hockey. I'll agree that he'll hep stabilize our defense.
Absolutely! They need to get back to playing puck possession hockey and not dump 'n chase/soft D zone coverage. Heatley should be in the slot with his wicked one-timers, not digging in the corners trying to pass the puck back to the D.

It baffles me why a team this loaded and talented for offense is playing a grinding game and trying to win with a defensive posture, especially when they have a bad D group and a hot/cold goalie. The best defense is a good offense. The other team can't score if they don't have the puck. Having the team play a soft D zone coverage while the opponent sets up a shooting gallery is not a recipe for success!

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03-22-2010, 09:47 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
Absolutely! They need to get back to playing puck possession hockey and not dump 'n chase/soft D zone coverage. Heatley should be in the slot with his wicked one-timers, not digging in the corners trying to pass the puck back to the D.

It baffles me why a team this loaded and talented for offense is playing a grinding game and trying to win with a defensive posture, especially when they have a bad D group and a hot/cold goalie. The best defense is a good offense. The other team can't score if they don't have the puck. Having the team play a soft D zone coverage while the opponent sets up a shooting gallery is not a recipe for success!
Dump and chase doesn't mean that. It means throw the puck behind their defenders, forecheck the **** out of them (gaining the puck back), shoot, repeat. It means hard pressure on the offensive end. It means shutting down the other teams breakout and eliminating their ability to move the puck forward with speed.

Also, what talent are you thinking of? Marleau and Boyle are really the only guys who can consistently skate the puck up through anyone. The rest of the team is built for digging the puck out of the corners. And this actually suits Heatley's game perfectly. Heater is best standing, not skating Also, pucks back to the D is critical because if you aren't adding your D to the offense you're telling the other team they only need to worry about 3 guys in the offensive end.

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03-22-2010, 10:09 PM
  #141
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It also doesn't help when you turn over the puck you and coast to the bench rather than try to fix your mistake ...
Yeah, that showed how much heart Joe had.

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03-22-2010, 10:13 PM
  #142
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Just give some of the top guys a game or two off. Joe especially. Sometimes I think he worries more about his iron-man streak rather than doing what's best for his play and his team.


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Old
03-22-2010, 11:09 PM
  #143
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New DP blog up concerning TMac's job security.

DWil says TMac is the coach, end of story.

Rob Blake supports the staff and says its 100% on the players.

TMac says he's aware those questions will be raised.

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03-22-2010, 11:17 PM
  #144
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When the heck did everyone start to blame Tmac??? DW is the problem here. Fire his ass, get a GM who hasnt lost his mind, and give Tmac 2 more years to coach.

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03-22-2010, 11:22 PM
  #145
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Dump and chase doesn't mean that. It means throw the puck behind their defenders, forecheck the **** out of them (gaining the puck back), shoot, repeat.
Not sure where you're getting that I don't know what dump 'n chase is? Dump 'n chase =/= puck possession. Dump 'n chase = grinding. And a dump means a probability of losing possession. Not what TMac advocated when he first came here.

Quote:
It means hard pressure on the offensive end. It means shutting down the other teams breakout and eliminating their ability to move the puck forward with speed.
It also means wasting energy trying to get possession of the puck back. Grinding is a good way for 3rd and 4th liners to keep the other team's top lines from scoring. Not exactly a good way for your 1st and 2nd lines to play against the other team's checking lines.

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Also, what talent are you thinking of? Marleau and Boyle are really the only guys who can consistently skate the puck up through anyone.
Skating the puck up isn't the only measure of talent. I'm talking about getting back to puck possession hockey and using the scoring talent to score and not grind. How about more support for the puck carrier instead of waiting for the dump? Short passes and chips if the opponent is trapping? Short crossing plays and passes (and not that stupid backwards pass they tried last year in the playoffs) at the blueline if the D are standing them up? Allow the stars to be creative and not play like 3rd liners.

Guys like Heatley should be getting open for shots on goal, not having to go digging for pucks out of corners to pass back to a lousy D group that a) can't get shots to the net b) have shots that have a high probability of being blocked c) have shots go waaay wide and rim out of the zone.

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The rest of the team is built for digging the puck out of the corners. And this actually suits Heatley's game perfectly. Heater is best standing, not skating
You just said it yourself: Heatley is best not skating. Having him chase pucks and grind in the corners is a monumental waste of his talent. Talking about the top 2 lines here since they are expected to score, only JT and Clowe are the real board grinders. Patty, Heatley, Seto, and Pavs are better in the slot/open areas and taking shots on goal. Having them grind for the puck to pass back to the D, waiting for shots to get through and hoping for rebounds doesn't seem like a good way to fully utilize their talents.

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Also, pucks back to the D is critical because if you aren't adding your D to the offense you're telling the other team they only need to worry about 3 guys in the offensive end.
That's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm not saying shots from the D should be eliminated. However, it is option #1 for the Sharks and it should be waaaay further down the list.

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03-23-2010, 01:44 AM
  #146
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Not sure where you're getting that I don't know what dump 'n chase is? Dump 'n chase =/= puck possession. Dump 'n chase = grinding. And a dump means a probability of losing possession. Not what TMac advocated when he first came here.
They keep losing possession as it is.

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It also means wasting energy trying to get possession of the puck back. Grinding is a good way for 3rd and 4th liners to keep the other team's top lines from scoring. Not exactly a good way for your 1st and 2nd lines to play against the other team's checking lines.
You're trying to grind at the d-men, who are generally first to get back to the puck. You're not trying to go for the forwards exclusively. Plus, your 1st and 2nd lines often see the other teams' 1st and 2nd lines anyway.

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Skating the puck up isn't the only measure of talent. I'm talking about getting back to puck possession hockey and using the scoring talent to score and not grind. How about more support for the puck carrier instead of waiting for the dump? Short passes and chips if the opponent is trapping? Short crossing plays and passes (and not that stupid backwards pass they tried last year in the playoffs) at the blueline if the D are standing them up? Allow the stars to be creative and not play like 3rd liners.
Dude, tons of passing is not going to work for this team at this point. They have no confidence at all and screw up on one pass all the time, much less multiple passes.

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Guys like Heatley should be getting open for shots on goal, not having to go digging for pucks out of corners to pass back to a lousy D group that a) can't get shots to the net b) have shots that have a high probability of being blocked c) have shots go waaay wide and rim out of the zone.

You just said it yourself: Heatley is best not skating. Having him chase pucks and grind in the corners is a monumental waste of his talent. Talking about the top 2 lines here since they are expected to score, only JT and Clowe are the real board grinders. Patty, Heatley, Seto, and Pavs are better in the slot/open areas and taking shots on goal. Having them grind for the puck to pass back to the D, waiting for shots to get through and hoping for rebounds doesn't seem like a good way to fully utilize their talents.
I think we agree on Heatley getting open instead of having to grind, but the other players are just not doing enough work to get him the puck at this point.

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That's not exactly what I'm saying. I'm not saying shots from the D should be eliminated. However, it is option #1 for the Sharks and it should be waaaay further down the list.
Meh, not like any of our point shots amount to anything these days.

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Old
03-23-2010, 02:03 AM
  #147
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When the heck did everyone start to blame Tmac??? DW is the problem here. Fire his ass, get a GM who hasnt lost his mind, and give Tmac 2 more years to coach.
Yeah DW is the problem. He keeps turning over the puck and giving up softies. What a punk.

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03-23-2010, 02:24 AM
  #148
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Ortmeyer is the key!!

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03-23-2010, 04:22 AM
  #149
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I voted for two of the lesser popular solutions, fire tmac and get a new captain.

But that was before thinking it through really, there's no captains we could nominate right now, and no really good coaches out there(unless a great came out of retirement, which is unlikely). I just feel like mclellan, while his style is up tempo style is nice and all, without speed it's useless. Might as well implement a lemaire like style because at least then the pressure is off of our crappy D and nabby doesn't have to face as many breakaways. But that change can't happen this season..

So I guess the real answer is there's nothing they can do. Can't bench a star player because it ensures a loss at a time when our schedule is NOT getting easier. dallas 2 more times, canucks 2 times. avs 2 times, and then flames and phoenix to finish us off.

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03-23-2010, 08:44 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by RoundsHansen32 View Post
Ortmeyer is the key!!


Some kind of coaching or system change has to be in order. Jumbo seems to think that the net is along the boards, because thats where he continually skates the puck to. How about driving the puck to the net with big bodies? Dump it in? as long as we have someone who can retrieve it, but we honestly don't have all that much speed to do so. Bench Blake, use your strength down the Middle...Line 1 C Thornton, Line 2 C Marleau, Line 3 C Pavelski, Line 4 C Nichol. Stop making it easy for opposing teams to only have to shut down one line. Bench Blake, Bring up Demers (need more speed and offense from the defense), Every Player Finish your check, no more just turning and skating away, and Bench Blake.

edited.


Last edited by DarrylshutzSydor: 03-23-2010 at 08:46 AM. Reason: added text
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