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Wake-up Call

View Poll Results: What should be done?
Fire TMac 37 27.01%
Scratch some of the "star" players 60 43.80%
Change captaincy 34 24.82%
Nothing 44 32.12%
Other 28 20.44%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:01 AM
  #151
Docter419
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Per the Merc, Tmac gets the dreaded vote of confidence.

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:07 AM
  #152
one2gamble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarByte View Post
. Can't bench a star player because it ensures a loss
This is such a falls-hood its unbelievable.

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:08 AM
  #153
SharksFailToClear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post


Bench Blake, use your strength down the Middle...Line 1 C Thornton, Line 2 C Marleau, Line 3 C Pavelski, Line 4 C Nichol. Stop making it easy for opposing teams to only have to shut down one line. Bench Blake, Bring up Demers (need more speed and offense from the defense), Every Player Finish your check, no more just turning and skating away, and Bench Blake.

edited.
I would like to see them try that for sure. Roll 4 lines, give the top guys a break on minutes and get everyone going. I don't mind losing a few more games as long as some momentum and hard work is generated before the playoffs.

Couture Thornton Seto
Clowe Marleau Heatley
Mcginn Pavelski Malhotra
Mitchell Nichol Ortmeyer

Boyle Murray
Vlasic Wallin/Blake (Least likely of all these changes is actually benching blake...)
Demers Huskins


Oh, and on a side note there is a chance we end up with the #4 seed and still play Detroit. sweet.


Last edited by SharksFailToClear: 03-23-2010 at 09:31 AM. Reason: just adding another point
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Old
03-23-2010, 12:32 PM
  #154
sdh
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Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
Not sure where you're getting that I don't know what dump 'n chase is? Dump 'n chase =/= puck possession. Dump 'n chase = grinding. And a dump means a probability of losing possession. Not what TMac advocated when he first came here.
Not true. The Red Wings are a puck possession team and they dump the puck behind the defenders and retrieve it. Puck possession doesn't mean never letting go of the puck, it means doing everything you can to get it back when you don't have it. It also means not losing the puck at the offensive blue line because you're trying to skate it in and have no where to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
It also means wasting energy trying to get possession of the puck back. Grinding is a good way for 3rd and 4th liners to keep the other team's top lines from scoring. Not exactly a good way for your 1st and 2nd lines to play against the other team's checking lines.
These guys are professional athletes. They aren't running out of gas. More likely, they aren't burning enough of it. I'm not sure why you think negatively of grinding and retrieving the puck. If every player on a team isn't willing to grind it out along the boards and work for the puck, then they don't deserve to be on the ice.

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Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
How about more support for the puck carrier instead of waiting for the dump? Short passes and chips if the opponent is trapping?
You are suggesting the Sharks do EXACTLY what the trap is designed to cause. Chips in, which are retrieved easily by the other team's D, or short passes (east-west) which are easily intercepted. That's just not the answer.

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Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
Short crossing plays and passes (and not that stupid backwards pass they tried last year in the playoffs) at the blueline if the D are standing them up? Allow the stars to be creative and not play like 3rd liners.
I agree there. That play is awful. I can't believe the Sharks think it is a good idea. Everyone stops at the blue line and one guy with speed coming from behind is supposed to skate through a line of 9 people and somehow maintain possession of the puck?! It's awful. It's a low percentage play that should be scrapped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
a lousy D group that a) can't get shots to the net b) have shots that have a high probability of being blocked c) have shots go waaay wide and rim out of the zone.
Okay, please realize that these players aren't stupid and they aren't failing to hit the net. They aren't aiming for the net! If most shots are blocked, why would they shoot at the net? They wouldn't, which is precisely why our D is intentionally shooting wide. They're shooting wide and banking pucks off the boards to get the puck to a deep forward (usually behind or to the side of the net) who can then get the puck to the paint.

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Old
03-23-2010, 12:35 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
The Sharks became predictable.

Now, all TMs adjustments seemed to be borrowed from Ron Wilson's line change wheel of fortune rather than trying to get some stable set of lines to adjust their play and execution. It basically comes across as flailing.

The players may have zoned out on TM and feel they have to accountability to TM - but that would likely change very quickly if their GM were staring at them on the bench.
This is so true. T.M.'s terrible game plan has become so readable and teams are more than prepared for it and we are seeing the results. Really good post kdb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Now in the present, DW can fire TMac. If not that, DW is pretty much useless.
TMac can only do two things. Bench players and manage ice time. If he's unwilling to do that, he is pretty much useless.

Todd McLellan, I think, knows what should be done but because he's so green, he's got no pull. And besides that, it's true he is stubborn and has his faults and probably should go too but I sincerely doubt it will happen for at least another season.
P.F., I can't believe how much you and I actually agree on this one. So so true and right on the money.

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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
This team definitely has the talent up front to carry it in. However, they don't have the speed and awareness on the backend to cover up for the massive amount of high turnovers this team does. The reason why Hitch would work is because the dump and chase is to save this team from itself and those high zone turnovers.
Again, agree totally. Up front, I think we are fine. Remember, in the last 6 games, what are we outscored in the first period, something like 10-0 or close to this? This is terrible and puts us in the hole to early to quick and, nothing but the fault of the D and goaltending. Our bottom half of our D is atrocious. Against some others popular belief, I agree with you that Hitch would work great in our system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
AI haven't had any real hope for this team all year, so IMO just get it right next season at this point...
Isn't that terrible though, we are saying this more and more as each season goes by and, in essence, are starting to sound like Leafs fans.

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Originally Posted by brototype View Post
I would like to see them try that for sure. Roll 4 lines, give the top guys a break on minutes and get everyone going. I don't mind losing a few more games as long as some momentum and hard work is generated before the playoffs.

Couture Thornton Seto
Clowe Marleau Heatley
Mcginn Pavelski Malhotra
Mitchell Nichol Ortmeyer
Love this forward lineup idea. This i believe is a must. With T.M.'s predicatable attack every game and the skill we have up front, the only thing to do is this; mix some of the young guys with the regulars. This will add much more spark and speed and, through a loop into our opponents preparations for us, which is becoming too simple--check the heck out of the top line and the second is not steady enough to carry the Sharks along.

I also love how you added Demers on the D. To me, a HUGE screwup via T.M. in not playing him steady all season long. Huge mistake.

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Old
03-23-2010, 02:51 PM
  #156
OneTooth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdh View Post
Not true. The Red Wings are a puck possession team and they dump the puck behind the defenders and retrieve it. Puck possession doesn't mean never letting go of the puck, it means doing everything you can to get it back when you don't have it. It also means not losing the puck at the offensive blue line because you're trying to skate it in and have no where to go.
You have your terminology mixed up. Puck possession and dump 'n chase are *not* the same thing. Read this article to learn why the Wings went to a dump 'n chase game and why they are toiling in 8th place. http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2010...-up_passi.html

Quote:
These guys are professional athletes. They aren't running out of gas. More likely, they aren't burning enough of it. I'm not sure why you think negatively of grinding and retrieving the puck. If every player on a team isn't willing to grind it out along the boards and work for the puck, then they don't deserve to be on the ice.
LOL. They're not robots. Grinding expends energy. A lot of it.

Quote:
You are suggesting the Sharks do EXACTLY what the trap is designed to cause. Chips in, which are retrieved easily by the other team's D, or short passes (east-west) which are easily intercepted. That's just not the answer.
Wrong. A trap is designed to cause turnovers in the neutral zone by taking away all options from the puck carrier. This happens if the puck carrier hangs onto the puck for too long. Short, quick passes where the puck receiver swings to the "other side" that isn't being trapped will break the trap. It's all about supporting the puck carrier, which the Sharks don't do all that well.

Quote:
I agree there. That play is awful. I can't believe the Sharks think it is a good idea. Everyone stops at the blue line and one guy with speed coming from behind is supposed to skate through a line of 9 people and somehow maintain possession of the puck?! It's awful. It's a low percentage play that should be scrapped.
Thankfully it has been scrapped. But I brought it up to show that this coaching staff isn't fault free and this example really makes you wonder if they are competent.

Quote:
Okay, please realize that these players aren't stupid and they aren't failing to hit the net. They aren't aiming for the net!
I'm not talking about deliberate off target shot/passes. I'm talking about completely missing the net and the puck rims out of the zone. Vlasic is a main culprit.

Quote:
If most shots are blocked, why would they shoot at the net?
Because that is their strategy, to try and get shots through from the point. It's a low percentage strategy and is why their shot count sucks. And it'll get worse in the PO's when opponents block shots at all costs.

Do you know why the Sharks used to get 40+ shots on net in almost every game and scoring tons of goals during the 1st half of *last* season and now only average 20 shots *this* season while having, arguably, better offensive players? It's because they went from puck possession and aggressive forechecking to dump 'n chase and passive D.

These days, opponents are the ones running up the shot clock while the Sharks sit back and try to weather the storm...with a lousy D.

Quote:
They wouldn't, which is precisely why our D is intentionally shooting wide. They're shooting wide and banking pucks off the boards to get the puck to a deep forward (usually behind or to the side of the net) who can then get the puck to the paint.
The Sharks rarely shoot wide for a "pass". And it's a low percentage play anyway. Easier to just pass directly to a player and maintain puck possession.

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Old
03-23-2010, 04:06 PM
  #157
sdh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTooth View Post
You have your terminology mixed up. Puck possession and dump 'n chase are *not* the same thing. Read this article to learn why the Wings went to a dump 'n chase game and why they are toiling in 8th place. http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2010...-up_passi.html
FTA:

"The Detroit Red Wings' struggles over the past two weeks serve as symptoms of a sort of identity crisis: the Wings adjusted to a passive, dump-and-chase style of play to deal with an injury-ravaged roster"

You can't win races to recover the puck if you are passive. The problem there isn't the strategy, it's the execution.

Btw, we aren't arguing puck possession vs dump and chase, it's actually more about what happens when the Sharks reach the offensive blue line. If the Sharks (or Wings) go through the neutral zone with speed (ie: forwards aren't standing at the blue line waiting for D to skate over it), then they have a good chance of reaching the dumped in puck before the defenders, which would mean no possession lost.

See? We both want puck possession.

The difference is whether the defenders are skating backwards facing the offensive player, or whether they have to turn around to race for the puck. I'd prefer to see the latter.

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Old
03-23-2010, 05:15 PM
  #158
OneTooth
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Originally Posted by sdh View Post
See? We both want puck possession.
I disagree with your definition of DnC vs PP but we can agree on this.

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Old
03-23-2010, 06:35 PM
  #159
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"Nothing" is the best option among the poll choices, at this point. This is the same team that led the Conference very recently.

Here's what I'd like to see during the last 10 games (I'm not up on cap implications, so please correct me as necessary):
  • Stop changing line combinations. Stick with Marleau-JT-Heater, the number 1 line in the league for most of the season. When Clowe-Pavs-Seto are on, that's about as good a blend of physical play, playmaking, and finish as you'll see on any 2nd line. Line-juggling is one of the silliest, yet popular, coaching cliches around; as if a few shifts together will produce that elusive chemistry.
  • Minimize Blake's minutes now that MEV is back. 2nd power play unit and against the 3rd/4th lines only. I'd risk going with Joslin, while the captain is in the press box most nights, but I doubt that will happen.
  • TM and staff: get a d-zone coverage system in place NOW. This team has been an embarrassment in their own zone all season, and I put most of the blame on the (lack of) coaching.
  • Give back Nabby's teddy bear or blanky, or whatever he's missing, because he has been dreadful, worse even than the d-zone team in front of him. I don't buy the dazed-by-the-Olympics-performance argument. Every goalie, and player, has bad streaks, but this is the worst slump I can recall.
  • Play 60 minutes. When you play 10-20 minutes of quality hockey per night, losses are inevitable, regardless of how good or bad your goalie is playing. I sympathize with the coaches on this one, because I guarantee the team has heard that advice plenty.
  • Challenge Couture with as many minutes, in as many situations, as he can handle. He's been the best forward on the team (faint praise, I know) since being recalled, and is gaining confidence with each game. He's had an outstanding AHL season; let's see what the kid can do at this level.
And to all of us ... calm down.

Every winning and losing streak ends. The Sharks ain't going 0-15, and the Coyotes ain't winning 18 straight, to end the season. After this horrific stumble, they're still only a point out of the Division lead and 2nd-place in the Conference, with a game in hand. That's a testament to the fine record this team established prior to their slump, and far more indicative of their capability than the garbage we've seen recently.

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