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Keep Nilsson and POS for next yr

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Old
03-21-2010, 10:20 PM
  #26
Jimmi Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
Gagner scored 35g 83a 118pts in his draft year as well......just saying that it would not be a bad thing to leave Seguin in the OHL let him rack up 150 points and be the top dog on team Canada at the world juniors

might help him be a 100 point nhler instead of a 60 point guy...

Most teams allow there prospect to follow the proper development course of junior-ahl-NHL........the Oilers have rushed to many prospects in the past
You understand these guys aren't porcelain dolls right? They need to play against the best to get better.

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03-21-2010, 10:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
You understand these guys aren't porcelain dolls right? They need to play against the best to get better.
But there is no need to throw these kids to the Wolves

Hall is ready for the NHL....Seguin could play in the NHL next year but he will not dominate...

This is Seguins 1st yr dominating the OHL....Hall has dominated for 3 years............

My belief is that I would Rather Sequin and Eberle get 1st line minutes, 1st pp and 1st pk units on a lower level then 4th line minutes in the NHL.........this is also how most teams develop the prospects that are not named crosby,ovy,stamkos,Malkin..

The best thing that happened to Parise, Getzlaff, Perry, Richards was the lockout allowed these guys to dominate the OHL,WHL and AHL and made them closer to being NHL ready the following year.......Mika Koivu, Bobby Ryan, Ryan Kesler and Eric Staal also spent a full season in the AHL


Just saying that Oiler fans should not expect both Eberle and Hall/sequin to come into the NHL next year and pot 30 goals and get 60 points.............give Hall and Sequin the 9 game look at the start of the season and split Eberle between the NHL and AHL....

It is a big jump from the AHL to NHL and an even bigger jump from OHL to NHL for these kids


Last edited by Rafters: 03-21-2010 at 10:38 PM.
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Old
03-21-2010, 10:38 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenzOil View Post
what will that accomplish? the kid scored 100+ points in that league this season.. how will playing there make him any better? Both Hall and Seguin have nothing to prove in that league..
Gagner had 118 points in the OHL as a 17-year-old and wasn't sent back for that reason. Players drafted #1, #2 and #3 rarely get sent back to juniors.

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Old
03-21-2010, 10:57 PM
  #29
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I've said it before, we need to rid our selves of at least 3 of our midgets. We need to be a tougher team to play against.

Gagner->Stays for sure.
Cogliano->I am personally in the keep category
Potulny->Keep, cheap option for third line role
Comrie->Kind of like what he is trying to do here, but not too sure whether there is room
Pisani->Gone, sorry too many better options
POS->Gone, too inconsistent and has been a liability out there this year
Nilsson->Gone, streaky undersized, one dimensional forward
Moreau->Gone, he is done in Edmonton I hope
Pouliot->could prove to be serviceable guy, don't think the book is not closed on him yet
Brule->for sure back, playing fantastic with Penner

If Nilsson, Comrie, POS, Pisani, and Moreau leave then I will be thoroughly happy with Tambo

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Old
03-21-2010, 11:01 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
Gagner had 118 points in the OHL as a 17-year-old and wasn't sent back for that reason. Players drafted #1, #2 and #3 rarely get sent back to juniors.
And he has been a 40 point player his 1st 3 years.........maybe if he got sent down and was the main guy on the team he could be a 60+ player now.....who knows???

I am just trying to say there is no need to rush the new kids in the system........make them earn it and hopefully they will be better for it...the Oil have some depth of NHL players that can be 2nd liners (POS,Nilsson,Cogs,Gags) as for the record a lot of 1,2,3 picks have struggled when rushed into the NHL there 1st year

If Hall/Sequin and Eberle are the best players in camp then so be it they stick around if not.....send them down

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Old
03-21-2010, 11:56 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by copperandblue897 View Post
If Nilsson, Comrie, POS, Pisani, and Moreau leave then I will be thoroughly happy with Tambo
Well said for the out box. As long as the in box isnt filled with Jagr and/or other high priced vets then I will be happy too.

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Old
03-22-2010, 12:17 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
And he has been a 40 point player his 1st 3 years.........maybe if he got sent down and was the main guy on the team he could be a 60+ player now.....who knows???

I am just trying to say there is no need to rush the new kids in the system........make them earn it and hopefully they will be better for it...the Oil have some depth of NHL players that can be 2nd liners (POS,Nilsson,Cogs,Gags) as for the record a lot of 1,2,3 picks have struggled when rushed into the NHL there 1st year

If Hall/Sequin and Eberle are the best players in camp then so be it they stick around if not.....send them down
Regardless a CHL player will struggle their first year, it's the fact that the NHL forces them to learn quicker. In my eyes leaving gagner or whoever we take in the 1st in the OHL is a lost development year.

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Old
03-22-2010, 12:26 AM
  #33
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We only keep them if we haven't got any better options.

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Old
03-22-2010, 12:27 AM
  #34
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Nice goal by Nilsson, taking it away from Joe and finishing on the deke. He seems to have a pretty good success rate with that move. I personally would like to see him here next year, and I agree with the original points presented.

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Old
03-22-2010, 01:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kuisan View Post
They need to be gone. 2 players that will never amount to anything great and are exactly the type of players we need less of on this team. Small offensive metocre forwards need to be shed, and those are the first 2 names that come to mind. Make room for the future and add role players.
Exactly.

When you add in the fact that these players make over $5M combined making an effort to dump them is a no brainer.
These players/contracts simply do not add value to a team.

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Old
03-22-2010, 07:15 AM
  #36
Jimmi Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
But there is no need to throw these kids to the Wolves

Hall is ready for the NHL....Seguin could play in the NHL next year but he will not dominate...

This is Seguins 1st yr dominating the OHL....Hall has dominated for 3 years............

My belief is that I would Rather Sequin and Eberle get 1st line minutes, 1st pp and 1st pk units on a lower level then 4th line minutes in the NHL.........this is also how most teams develop the prospects that are not named crosby,ovy,stamkos,Malkin..

The best thing that happened to Parise, Getzlaff, Perry, Richards was the lockout allowed these guys to dominate the OHL,WHL and AHL and made them closer to being NHL ready the following year.......Mika Koivu, Bobby Ryan, Ryan Kesler and Eric Staal also spent a full season in the AHL


Just saying that Oiler fans should not expect both Eberle and Hall/sequin to come into the NHL next year and pot 30 goals and get 60 points.............give Hall and Sequin the 9 game look at the start of the season and split Eberle between the NHL and AHL....

It is a big jump from the AHL to NHL and an even bigger jump from OHL to NHL for these kids
And the best thing for Doughty, Stamkos, Duchene and others, is to come straight into the NHL to develop their game.

What Wolves, it's not as if these kids are going to be put on a team with a great deal of expectations, the Oil will likely be this bad again next year. At some point these guy are going to have to learn to compete at the NHL level, they both seem to be good enough to do so now, so why wait.

Edit: You also miss the point with those guys, who were only in the AHL or the CHL because of the lock out, otherwise they would have been NHLers.


Last edited by Jimmi Jenkins: 03-22-2010 at 08:16 AM.
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Old
03-22-2010, 08:10 AM
  #37
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Beyond how much these two guys suck, the management keeps talking about needing a culture change and getting rid of the losing mentality of this team.

So what kind of message does it send to bring back two heartless, uselesss, unproductive bums back?

POS and Nilsson are players destined to always land on last-place team. You want to get better, you move these guys and bring in superior replacements.

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03-22-2010, 10:02 AM
  #38
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I agree with the OP, especially with regards to Nilsson... if there's room in the roster let them occupy it and see what happens.

Nilsson continues to do what he always has done... tease us with indications that he has what it takes to be an impact player, but do it so inconsistently over a season that you question whether he's worth having around. But as far as problems in the dressing room go, my feeling is he's more affected by the problem than a part of it. Part of me believes that if the Oilers can create a culture of hope in there, Nilsson could perhaps benefit. Maybe... wouldn't bet on it, but if coaching staff said they thought so then I'd believe it.

O'Sullivan... if the Oilers did waive him, I wouldn't hold it against them. Early in his arrival I thought he showed signs he could be something, but in recently memory the only words that come to mind to describe him are 'halfhearted' or 'gutless' (depending on the game). For me, if you get rid of him, it should be because of his attitude in the dressing room (and the need to eliminate it more sooner than later)... but on hockey skill alone, based on his history, if there's a roster spot to fill then let him do it and see if maybe he defies the odds and comes back around. Best case scenario, he has a great season and you chuck this guy at the trade deadline for an 8th round pick sort of thing.

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Old
03-22-2010, 10:13 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
But there is no need to throw these kids to the Wolves

Hall is ready for the NHL....Seguin could play in the NHL next year but he will not dominate...

This is Seguins 1st yr dominating the OHL....Hall has dominated for 3 years............

My belief is that I would Rather Sequin and Eberle get 1st line minutes, 1st pp and 1st pk units on a lower level then 4th line minutes in the NHL.........this is also how most teams develop the prospects that are not named crosby,ovy,stamkos,Malkin..

The best thing that happened to Parise, Getzlaff, Perry, Richards was the lockout allowed these guys to dominate the OHL,WHL and AHL and made them closer to being NHL ready the following year.......Mika Koivu, Bobby Ryan, Ryan Kesler and Eric Staal also spent a full season in the AHL


Just saying that Oiler fans should not expect both Eberle and Hall/sequin to come into the NHL next year and pot 30 goals and get 60 points.............give Hall and Sequin the 9 game look at the start of the season and split Eberle between the NHL and AHL....

It is a big jump from the AHL to NHL and an even bigger jump from OHL to NHL for these kids
you seem to equate losing some of the smaller one dimesional guys with having to rush the young players.... it doesn't have to be that choice at all. One of the biggest problems on this team is that they have too many similar players.. coglianos biggest problem this year is guys like o'sullivan and nilsson are playing in the role he should be playing in and was stuck in no mans land. So basically you're only replacing those guys with guys who are already here and have the same playing style! has nothing to do with the young guys (though it could if they're determined to be ready)

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03-22-2010, 10:15 AM
  #40
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IMO it would be a MASSIVE mistake to get rid of Nilsson.

As for POS, he needs to go.

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03-22-2010, 10:28 AM
  #41
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I am all for keeping Nilson and POS. the thing is when teams do really well what gets them in trouble is to over value their players, sign them to big contracts. WE all know we got nailed with a few after the cup run, Pisani, Staios ect. However the opposite is just as bad, when teams suck they want to just get rid of every one, trade low and undervalue their players. To me this is the worst thing the oilers could do, POS is a good player who is at a all time low for value. I think we keep both. However we have a lot of forwards, not sure, some one has to go.

Penner-Gags-Hemmer
POS-Horc-Brule
Hall/Seguin-Cogs-Eberle
Potulny-MAP-Storts/jones

That still leaves Nilson to sub in. So it seems some one needs to go.

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03-22-2010, 11:32 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
Most Oiler fans want bot POS and Nilsson gone next yr....either traded or waived or minors........Both are talented young players that will be in the last year of there contract.....some reasons the Oil should keep both:

1) players in there contract year always seem to have great seasons..both are likely to work there ass off in an attempt to have good years and get there next contract

2) the Oil should have lots of cap space so there is no need to dump these players next year to save a few bucks towards the cap...buying out these players would also affect the cap space 2 years from now....which really makes no sense

3) Why trade these young players for pennies on the dollar to open up roster spaces for players that may not be ready to play in the NHL....MPS/Lander will likely be in Sweden next season, Eberle should start in the AHL, Nash will be in NCAA or AHL

4) If they have decent seasons next year the Oil could get more at the deadline for these players if the suck then do not sign them going forward


A lot of fans fell we have to get rid of some of the midgets on the team, but in reality why give away assets. They are both still young enough and talented enough to turn there careers around or at least show some NHL GM they can be top 6 forwards........ It is not like the Oilers are going to be a top 5-10 team in the NHL next year so why not give these players 1 more year to improve their value around the league so Tambo can get something for them if he does not see 1 or both in the long term plans

Please Tambo, don't listen to this guy!

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Old
03-22-2010, 11:58 AM
  #43
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Please Tambo, don't listen to this guy!
Tambo actually just called me and told me he is listening to exactly that guy.

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Old
03-22-2010, 12:12 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Penner-Gags-Hemmer
POS-Horc-Brule
Hall/Seguin-Cogs-Eberle
Potulny-MAP-Storts/jones

That still leaves Nilson to sub in. So it seems some one needs to go.
That's your lineup for the first week, but after that you'll have at least 2 forwards out with injuries. This lineup still totally lacks leadership. I think it's time we just started banking on the injuries around here.

Furthermore, it's 50/50 odds whether we get Hall or Seguin, and in the case we get Seguin I think he does a stint in the AHL first. Also, if you'd have asked me a few days ago, I'd tell you Eberle starts next year in the AHL and when he becomes dominant, then you bring him up after an injury. Mind you, that was before his 6 points in 3 games.

Ultimately, I think the reason you get rid of POS is to make room for a vet or two that you bring in during the off-season. That's the variable that could create a need for room.

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Old
03-22-2010, 12:26 PM
  #45
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Honestly, I'm crazy but I'd rather keep Nilsson and trade Cogliano and O'Sullivan because of their better trade value.

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03-22-2010, 12:30 PM
  #46
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O'sullivans anitials are very appropriate for the way he has played as an Oiler. The fact that anybody would even consider this guy a useful option moving forward is simply appalling. I have never seen a player as useless at helping a team win as POS. He has some skill, no doubt but has absoluetly zero hockey sense. He passes when should shoot and shoots when he shouldn't. I never understood Quinns logic by putting him on the point on the PP but that was the most clear indication of his lack of sense. At almost 3mil per get this hack the **** out of here.

Nilsson, I don't see the same problems as POS, he certainly takes weeks or even months off which is a huge factor but he doesn't generally help our team lose the way I thought POS did. I could see Nilsson being brought back but if it's all the same to Katz, I would perfer the buy out route.


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Old
03-22-2010, 12:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
And the best thing for Doughty, Stamkos, Duchene and others, is to come straight into the NHL to develop their game.

What Wolves, it's not as if these kids are going to be put on a team with a great deal of expectations, the Oil will likely be this bad again next year. At some point these guy are going to have to learn to compete at the NHL level, they both seem to be good enough to do so now, so why wait.

Edit: You also miss the point with those guys, who were only in the AHL or the CHL because of the lock out, otherwise they would have been NHLers.
Stamkos has been sheltered if you want to get right down to it. He has Gary Roberts in the off-season prepping him for his NHL career. He has Vinny and Martin St.Louis to learn from during the season.

Duchene and a group of kids found great chemistry and I am not fully aware if Sakic is mentoring him or not. But, he does have access to him. They found lightning in a bottle with all those young players.

Doughty...he could be the exception.

I just don't see the Oilers actually having the right chemistry, environment and protection until a few years down the road for Seguin or Hall. Best leave them in JRs or AHL.

You also have to look at it from a growth standpoint in playing your way up with the kids. They find their chemistry in the AHL with each other and move on up together.

I see no harm in those kids learning by the "bus" system.

Let them play the 9-10 game limit and send them either to JR or the AHL and definitely lend them to the World JRs.

Yes, 1st and 2nd overall picks don't usually see the AHL...but I can't see how it would be a bad thing either.

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03-22-2010, 01:08 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by oilerfaninleafland View Post
Stamkos has been sheltered if you want to get right down to it. He has Gary Roberts in the off-season prepping him for his NHL career. He has Vinny and Martin St.Louis to learn from during the season.
Yup, and all that "sheltering" has turned into 50 goals in his second year, again not to so bad.
Quote:
Duchene and a group of kids found great chemistry and I am not fully aware if Sakic is mentoring him or not. But, he does have access to him. They found lightning in a bottle with all those young players.
You know why you're not, because he hasn't been. Duchene has taken the challenge and stepped up. So how would he have been served in Juniors?
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Doughty...he could be the exception.
To what? Bogosian(sp), Tavares, Hedman. Alot of top end talents are better served in the NHL, because a better challenge forces them to be better


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You mean, given kids good enough for the NHL the challenge of playing in the NHL? Who'd a thunk that would have been a good idea?

I just don't see the Oilers actually having the right chemistry, environment and protection until a few years down the road for Seguin or Hall. Best leave them in JRs or AHL.
What the hell are you jabbering about? Chemistry for what? The team is being rebuilt, so chemistry is still to be developed. What's more likely is the high end skill and winning mentalities that these kids have, will become infectious on a rebuilding team.

Eberle can already dominate the AHL, he's not served and doesn't get anything out of doing more of that, it's not a challenge. Same with Hall and Seguin, especially Hall who has spent that past 3 seasons dominating the OHL, another year of that does nothing for him. If you want these guys to get better, the need more of a challenge, like the NHL will provide.
Quote:
You also have to look at it from a growth standpoint in playing your way up with the kids. They find their chemistry in the AHL with each other and move on up together.

I see no harm in those kids learning by the "bus" system.

Let them play the 9-10 game limit and send them either to JR or the AHL and definitely lend them to the World JRs.

Yes, 1st and 2nd overall picks don't usually see the AHL...but I can't see how it would be a bad thing either.
It's a bad thing, because it doesn't serve them at all. These are prospects, players, not porcelain dolls, you don't have to worry about breaking them if you play with them.

The theme of this reply has been Challenge. These kids need a big, better challenge to get better. Eberle needs that in the NHL, and so do Hall and Seguin. These guys need to be on the team, on the Oilers (as long as they prove the can make the team), out of camp. Remember you can always reserve the right to send Eberle to the minors and Hall and Seguin back to Junior, if the task proves too daunting, however I don't see that being the case.

O'Sullivan has be wildly inconsistant and an enigma, and Nilsson has proven to be underwhleming. These two aren't part of the core, and have no value to the team going forward, maybe they go somewhere else and shine, but they won't do it in Edmonton.

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03-22-2010, 01:12 PM
  #49
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Nice goal by Nilsson, taking it away from Joe and finishing on the deke. He seems to have a pretty good success rate with that move. I personally would like to see him here next year, and I agree with the original points presented.
I agree, Nilsson has some pretty good skills and talent, some sic moves (second to Hemsky) i'd keep him and play him accordingly, like not 20 minutes a game, but in situations where his skills can help, like on a 2nd line PP, 4 on 4 situations, OT, shootouts. He can come in handy. Cogs and Brule we should keep.

POS on the other hand, I'm not a fan, like to see him go. Comrie also, bye bye

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03-22-2010, 01:31 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
Most Oiler fans want bot POS and Nilsson gone next yr....either traded or waived or minors........Both are talented young players that will be in the last year of there contract.....some reasons the Oil should keep both:

1) players in there contract year always seem to have great seasons..both are likely to work there ass off in an attempt to have good years and get there next contract
Not always. Anyways, even if *by magic* they "turn their game on", does that mean we should accept it when they turn their game off for every year there after? Both Nilsson and POS are so maddingly inconsistent offensively, and they don't provide any grit that they contribute to the soft playing style that this team has. Either you need to score, or you need to defend or you need to pound the boards. It's not rocket science, and both these guys don't do any of the three consistently.

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Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
2) the Oil should have lots of cap space so there is no need to dump these players next year to save a few bucks towards the cap...buying out these players would also affect the cap space 2 years from now....which really makes no sense
What lots of cap space?

F signed for next year: Horcoff, Penner, Hemsky, POS, Nilsson, Moreau, Jones, Stortini (22.45)
Add RFA: Gagner, Cogliano, Pouliot, Brule (est 6.5)
Add Seguin (3.75)

D signed for next year: Souray, Whitney, Gilbert, Smid (14.7)
Add RFA/UFA: Peckham, Johnson (est 1.8)

G signed for next year: Khabibulin (3.75)
Add RfA: JDD or DD (est 0.9)

Total - 53.85 leaving 2.95 for two remaining roster spots. This is not "Lots" of cap space.


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Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
3) Why trade these young players for pennies on the dollar to open up roster spaces for players that may not be ready to play in the NHL....MPS/Lander will likely be in Sweden next season, Eberle should start in the AHL, Nash will be in NCAA or AHL
Because they suck. I'm not even talking about trading, because I"m not sure we could find a buyer. I'm talking buyout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
4) If they have decent seasons next year the Oil could get more at the deadline for these players if the suck then do not sign them going forward
And if they don't have decent seasons? We've wasted another Oiler year hoping for secondary scoring that doesn't occur.

Nilsson's history.
2005/06 (NYI): 20 pts/53 gp = 0.377 ppg
2007/08: 41 pts/ 71 gp = 0.577 ppg
2008/09: 29 pts / 64 gp = 0.453 ppg
2009/10: 26 pts / 54 gp = 0.48 ppg

What exactly screams great potential player here? Basically during a full season, expect him to score roughly 40 pts at roughly 0.5 ppg clip. who doesn't PK, or hit. That's lovely, but we have other guys: Brule, Potulny, Pouliot who can do it cheaper and who have more grit to their game and can play on the PK.

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