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Old
03-22-2010, 12:22 PM
  #76
otto1219
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Why is everyone so caught up in immediately eliminating our free cap space? Obviously the Rangers has its problems, but is it one player away from being a cup contender no.

Playing off that thought, after watching Ilya Kovalchuk on the devils, he has 12 points in 15 games. Not terrible. I was a huge supporter of bringing him to the Rangers next year for the right price, but my attitude has definitely changed lately.

After watching him play in the Olympics and his very small sample size in the playoffs, I just do not view him as a "Big Time" player. He had 3 points in 4 gams in the olympics, yet 2 of his points came in the 8-2 blowout of Latvia. How would Kovalchuk handle the pressure in New York? I don't believe so.

Watching him play on the Devils, one can really see how awful he is defensively. Christensen's great goal a few weeks ago was because Kovalchuk lazily waived a stick at him and didnt properly defend him. The LAST thing the Rangers need on this team is a lazy player not back checking and playing defense.

The Rangers main problem is goal scoring, this is obvious, but if you watch Kovalchuk play (other than the powerplay) he is a ME player. In this i mean, he gets the puck and tries to beat everyone in the neutral zone and score by himself. He has the kind of talent to do this feat, in fact, he is very good at it.

THIS is not what the Rangers need. The Rangers need three solid lines that are balanced and can all score. We do not need another superstar surrounded by cheap players with average to below average talent. Instead lets focus on a balanced line of attack, centering around Gaborik, and shedding salary, not handcuffing us for the 8-10 years it will take to sign Kovalchuk.

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03-22-2010, 12:27 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Girardi needs to be traded ASAP.

Amusing how many people were praising Jokinen when we first got him and now, all of a sudden, no one likes him.
Almost as amusing as how fast Girardi became public enemy #1. Why exactly does he need to be traded ASAP?

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Old
03-22-2010, 12:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Almost as amusing as how fast Girardi became public enemy #1. Why exactly does he need to be traded ASAP?
He does nothing particularly well. He stopped progressing a while ago, and in some measures has even regressed. Worst of all, in some ways, he's starting to remind me of Redden. Sometimes, I get the two mixed up on the ice. My vision is quite good, by the way.

This team has defenders waiting in the wings. He's not worth the money he'll probably get on his next contract. He's not particularly physical, he's rarely a factor offensively, and he's pretty average in most other respects. Send him packing for a second.

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03-22-2010, 01:06 PM
  #79
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Girardi is a clear example of a guy who is being asked to play above his abilities -- the same can be said for 2/3rds of our roster.

I think the decline in his play is partially related to the decline in Redden's. As Redden got worse, Girardi was asked to step up and play a bigger role that he's just not good enough to do. I also don't think he's particularly well suited for Tortorella's defensive structure -- or lack thereof. If he was given a stay-at-home role with a competent #3 d-man, I think he'd be just fine.

Still, I think the time has come to move him. I think he's at the point where he's going to demand more money than he's worth on the ice. The ideal prospect to replace him is Mike Sauer, but the guy just can't stay off the IR.

Personally, I'd dangle him to some teams on draft day and see what the return is like. If we can use his rights to move up from an early 2nd to a mid 1st, it's worth it. Or if we can add an additional 2nd rounder and take a guy like McIlrath, I'd do that as well.

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03-22-2010, 01:13 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
He does nothing particularly well. He stopped progressing a while ago, and in some measures has even regressed. Worst of all, in some ways, he's starting to remind me of Redden. Sometimes, I get the two mixed up on the ice. My vision is quite good, by the way.
Next time he reminds you of Redden, just check his cap hit. That should fix the problem.

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This team has defenders waiting in the wings. He's not worth the money he'll probably get on his next contract. He's not particularly physical, he's rarely a factor offensively, and he's pretty average in most other respects. Send him packing for a second.
So are we to add 2 more rookie dmen next year? Or are we planning on keeping both Redden and Rozy around? Or maybe we can sign a UFA who will be even more expensive.

Girardi is a top 4 dman who likely won't get more than 2.5 mil per year. If he wants more than what Sather thinks he's worth, he'll go to arbitration, at which point Sather can accept the award or not. If it comes to that, then trade him at the deadline or next offseason (he'll still be RFA I think).

But now is not the time to trade him. Whoever you replace him with will either be less experienced or more expensive. Trading him isn't going to save us much cap space. We'd be far better off trading Rozy or burying Redden and replacing them for cheap.

I'd bet that if Girardi had stepped in and pounded on Carcillo, no one would be saying we should trade him. Whatever deficiencies you think Girardi has, he's the least of the problems on this team and hardly the first player we should be looking to get rid of.

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Old
03-22-2010, 01:15 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Next time he reminds you of Redden, just check his cap hit. That should fix the problem.
What does this mean exactly?

If they're both ineffective, who cares what they make?

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03-22-2010, 01:16 PM
  #82
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.

I like Versteeg as much as the next guy, but truth be told, he's no better than Callahan.

He's not a top 6 winger. He's a 3rd line player that can spot up on the 2nd line fro time to time, but not someone capable of holding down the job.

A solid player, good on the PK, opportunistic offesively, but I have to believe his numbers are greatly inflated based on the guys he's been playing with and behind.

Would need more than just Versteeg for Dubinsky


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Old
03-22-2010, 01:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
What does this mean exactly?

If they're both ineffective, who cares what they make?
First, I wouldn't call Girardi ineffective. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Every player does. That doesn't make him a bad player. He's a much better player than Redden at this point.

And second, you don't think it matters what he makes? With the salary cap, of course it matters. At 1.55 mil cap hit, Girardi doesn't need to be anything more than what he is. The same can't be said for Redden.

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Old
03-22-2010, 02:01 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
In from FA:
Plekanec (3 yrs / $3.5 per)
haha would love to see the reaction of the habs fans

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Old
03-22-2010, 02:02 PM
  #85
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My long shot move would be to trade for Thornton. I know it is remote, but Pavelski is on his way up and SJ will get bounced early again.
The reason San Jose will get bounced quickly is No-Show Joe. He is awful on the big stage. He treated the Olympics just like a playoff game -- he didn't show up. There are few guarantees in sports. One is that Thornton will be teeing it up by Mid-May.

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03-22-2010, 02:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
First, I wouldn't call Girardi ineffective. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Every player does. That doesn't make him a bad player. He's a much better player than Redden at this point.

And second, you don't think it matters what he makes? With the salary cap, of course it matters. At 1.55 mil cap hit, Girardi doesn't need to be anything more than what he is. The same can't be said for Redden.

That's all fine and good right now. But, his cap hit is unlikely to remain that amount, and he's not playing the role he should be - 3rd pairing Dman. I'd rather see Sanguinetti get a shot next year in that role, and start getting him acclimated, and use that Girardi money elsewhere.

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03-22-2010, 02:16 PM
  #87
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Girardi is a top 4 dman who likely won't get more than 2.5 mil per year. If he wants more than what Sather thinks he's worth, he'll go to arbitration, at which point Sather can accept the award or not. If it comes to that, then trade him at the deadline or next offseason (he'll still be RFA I think).
Not on a good team.

What Sather thinks he's worth? Sather thought Wade Redden was worth 6.5 mill a year. I don't want Girardi for 2.5 mill. Not even for 2. I'm not too crazy about having him on the team at all. He's just not that good.

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But now is not the time to trade him. Whoever you replace him with will either be less experienced or more expensive. Trading him isn't going to save us much cap space. We'd be far better off trading Rozy or burying Redden and replacing them for cheap.
The time to trade him was the deadline. Now it's just as soon as possible, before his value plummets.

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I'd bet that if Girardi had stepped in and pounded on Carcillo, no one would be saying we should trade him. Whatever deficiencies you think Girardi has, he's the least of the problems on this team and hardly the first player we should be looking to get rid of.
I've been saying he should be trade bait long before the Carcillo incident. He may not be the biggest problem on the team, but he's going to become a problem if they re-sign him this summer. We can't get rid of the biggest problems, but we can get rid of Girardi, who should not be a part of our team going forward.

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What does this mean exactly?

If they're both ineffective, who cares what they make?
Exactly.

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03-22-2010, 02:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I've been saying he should be trade bait long before the Carcillo incident. He may not be the biggest problem on the team, but he's going to become a problem if they re-sign him this summer. We can't get rid of the biggest problems, but we can get rid of Girardi, who should not be a part of our team going forward.
Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree on that I guess. Who are you replacing him with?

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Old
03-22-2010, 03:04 PM
  #89
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I'll start with what we have now and leave the trades and UFA speculations to others:

Staying--Lundqvist, Staal (3-3.5 mil) Girardi (2 mil--maybe a little more), Del Zotto, Gilroy, Gaborik, Dubinsky, Callahan, Avery, Anisimov, Prust. Look to resign Christensen, Prospal (if the price is right) and Boyle.

Not sure--Auld.

Probably staying but I'd try to move--Rozsival, Drury.

Redden is untradeable and is going to the minors no ifs ands or buts.

Figuring we are going to have to sign at least one (and maybe two) dependable UFA defenseman and hope that someone like a McDonagh, Sanguinetti, Sauer can take a spot--I also would include Valentenko if we could get him back to North America. He and McDonagh are larger stay at home types with at least a bit of aggression.

Weise and Byers are the best bets as forwards though I don't how much offense can be expected out of either.

Jokinen is gone--no point continuing with Voros especially if you're not going to play him and I think I'd pull the plug on Lisin as well. Try to convince Brashear to retire.

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03-22-2010, 03:08 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree on that I guess. Who are you replacing him with?
Yeah that's what I'm wondering all the time as well. All the guys who want to get rid of Girardi, who is gonna replace him? If he's the only one gone then fine, we can replace him with Sangs or McD.
But I really hope that Redden is sent down, or (what I don't hope but expect) Rozy is traded, and if that happens I really doubt we're gonna go with another two rookies on defense yet again. So we probably sign an UFA who will be overpaid and probably worse.
Seriously, which FA do you expect to be better than Girardi for about the same price (~2 million)?

If we can trade Girardi for a good young forward (Versteeg, Sharp) I'm all for it, but I think all those guys just wanting to get rid of him are missing the real problems of the team. If Girardi was the Rangers' biggest problem, they'd be somewhere else in the standings.

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03-22-2010, 03:29 PM
  #91
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Girardi has arbitration rights, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could receive around $2.75 million if he goes to arbitration.

I'd rather have Dennis Seidenberg than Girardi. He has a decent shot and is a solid shotblocker. He is also capable of logging big minutes (28 minutes in yesterday's game). Seidenberg is making $2.25 million this season and I can't imagine him commanding much more than that in the offseason.

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03-22-2010, 03:32 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Girardi has arbitration rights, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could receive around $2.75 million if he goes to arbitration.

I'd rather have Dennis Seidenberg than Girardi. He has a decent shot and is a solid shotblocker. He is also capable of logging big minutes (28 minutes in yesterday's game). Seidenberg is making $2.25 million this season and I can't imagine him commanding much more than that in the offseason.
I think Seidenberg will get around $3 million. He was signed very late last year, and has had a pretty good campaign. But I agree, if Girardi gets the same, then I'd prefer Seidenberg as well (he's German after all )

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03-22-2010, 03:35 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
Everything's a stop gap with this team. It's basically a never ending cycle.

We're always keeping spots warm waiting for our prospects to show up. The only problem is, that even when those prospects get here, guess what? We need more stop gaps because those prospects aren't good enough to carry a hockey team. The reason they aren't good enough to carry a hockey team is because the stop gaps keep us from sucking bad enough to get legitamite blue chip prospects.

It's Glen Sather's version of rebuilding.
Signing Drury for 5 years for $7 million+ isn't a stop gap
Signing Rosival for 4 years for $5 million is isn't a stop gap
Signing Redden for 6 years for $6.5 million isn't a stop gap
Signing Gomez for 6 years at $7 million + isn't a stop gap.
Signing Gaborik for 5 years at $7.5 million isn't a stop gap

So aside from Prospal, who exactly is a stop gap on the team?

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Old
03-22-2010, 03:36 PM
  #94
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Personally, I think the last thing we should do is bring back Olli-Jok's. Aside from him helping our powerplay a bit, he's been enigmatic 5 on 5. Sound like somebody else?

I'd love this team to waive Redden, bring in Plekanec and Volchenkov, keep Vinny, Auld, Prust and Christensen, and make a play for Filatov on draft day. Feel like Girardi + picks would get it done (2nd in 10' and a 3rd in 11'?), clearing the way for McD/Sauer/Sangs.

Dubinsky - Plekanec - Gaborik
Prospal - Anisimov - Filatov
Avery - Drury - Callahan
Byers - Boyle - Prust

EX: Christensen

Staal - Rozsival
Volchenkov - MDZ
Gilroy - McD/Sauer/Sangs

EX: Potter

Lundqvist
Auld
this seems the most realistic, except not a fan of pleks coming off his career year. i say sticking EC next to gabby for the year and waiting for steps is the better option.

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Old
03-22-2010, 03:46 PM
  #95
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I'm taking the easy way out and echoing SBoB's sentiments.

Before the Olympics it seemed as though Jokinen had a chance of coming back - now he's looking like he's going to be on a downward spiral and the Rangers might as well tank a season then sign another bad contract.

Dubi + Girardi (and then some) may get you closer to bringing back that centerman this team has been sorely missing as Jokinen is not the answer, neither is Christenson, neither is Drury, Anisimov or Dubi himself. Perhaps that needs to be looked at this Summer.

Buying out Voros doesn't make much sense - can't he be sent to HFD? That's an option with no cap hit. He can play alongside Rissmiller.

Brashear's another story - depending on where the team may go next season, it may be best to keep his cap hit next season and have more spending in the year following. Has he been tried on re-entry waivers? If not, perhaps that's another option, if a team would pick him up at 1/2 the cost therefore the cost would only be 1/2 for one season. After that, I'd probably not do a buyout and not expect a Stanley Cup contending season next year. This is dependent on what Sather can do elsewhere.
And I will echo your sentiments. I agree 100% with everything you said. Only thing I want to add is that I do really like Christensen and I think he's got the potential to be a great second line center. Because he'll come cheap, I really want him back and given another chance to succeed. We know he has the talent, and he's still what 25 or 26? He wouldn't be taking a spot from anyone else really because I don't think Anisimov will be ready for a full-time 2nd line role, and I prefer Dubinsky's skillset on the wing (and of course the possibility that he may be traded)

Here's my ideal lineup: (because sadly, now making potential lineups is more exciting than watching the team we all love)

Dubinsky, Girardi, Rozsival, 1st 2011 for B. Richards, Skrastins
Redden to Hartford for CAP RELIEF
Re-sign Staal, Prospal

Avery Richards Gaborik
Prospal Christensen Drury
Grachev Anisimov Callahan
Prust Boyle Byers

Staal Volchenkov
Del Zotto Skrastins
Gilroy Sanguinetti

Lundqvist
Auld


My 3 biggest targets this off-season:

1) Backstrom - This is EXTREMELY unlikely. Even if he somehow makes it to July 1st without a contract, I think there would be more than one team offering him huge money on an offer sheet. I'd give him 9 million per, easy. If he hits July 1st, we HAVE to make an offer. This guy could end up being the BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE in a few years. He's top 5 right now in my book. He's 23. 3rd year in the league. Over 50 assists every year he's been in the league. Will have over 30 goals, 60 assists, and close to 100 points this year. THIS is the kind of guy you throw huge money at. He's worth Kovalchuk money, moreso than Kovalchuk is. Younger, multi-dimensional offensively, and all-around better player. Only downside is we'd get ransacked in draft picks, but I still think it'd be worth it. Backstrom feeding Gaborik instead of Ovechkin? This is the type of move that puts us in the conversation of a contender. Again, extremely unlikely, but something we NEED to look into if it gets to that point.

2) Volchenkov - Exactly what we've been missing. Hits and hits HARD. Best shot-blocker in the league. Eats up huge minutes and also provides a REAL veteran presence, unlike Wade Redden who plays and acts (whining about benching) more like a rookie than our rookies.

3) Brad Richards - I know his cap-hit is RIDICLOUS. 7.8 mil. But it's only for this next season. If we can unload Rozy, Dubi, Girardi, and a 2011 1st for him, I think it's a gamble worth considering. Why? Because we only have to deal with 7.8 mil for 1 season and then perhaps we can extend him at a much easier cap-hit to swallow. He thrived under Torts and I believe he's a friend of Avery's. He's also a hell of a player and would fill a huge need on this club, while being only 29 on the verge of 30. I'd extend him for 4 or 5 years at 6 million. And if for some reason, we don't extend him, ok we've lost Dubi, Girardi, Rozy, and a 1st for one season of Brad Richards. Not something to be happy about, but not all that destructive. Worst case scenario, we then have 7.8 million to spend in a free-agent class that stands to be a hell of a lot better than this offseason's (barring a bunch of extensions of course)

If we can't get any of these 3, I'd rather stay pat (as scary as that sounds) than sign second-rate FA's to multi-year deals. But after a season like this one, I have to imagine Sather's going to make some wholesale changes. Fingers crossed.

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Old
03-22-2010, 04:10 PM
  #96
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itll take at least 9 mil to get Kovalchuk.

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Old
03-22-2010, 04:10 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Honestly, I'd tear this team apart in the off season and start from scratch. 3 year rebuild plan starting at the draft.
im down with this plan...even trading gaborik for the right peices would be smart we need an idenity and just adding 6 to 7 UFa's evey offseason is just going to keep us at this current juncture....cally hank staal MDZ Anisimov and prust are the only guys i would keep on this roster and i would deal everything else just for future's and bite the bullet for the next few years...damn whats the difference being dead last or the situation we are in now

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03-22-2010, 04:20 PM
  #98
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im down with this plan...even trading gaborik for the right peices would be smart we need an idenity and just adding 6 to 7 UFa's evey offseason is just going to keep us at this current juncture....cally hank staal MDZ Anisimov and prust are the only guys i would keep on this roster and i would deal everything else just for future's and bite the bullet for the next few years...damn whats the difference being dead last or the situation we are in now
big difference

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Old
03-22-2010, 04:23 PM
  #99
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big difference
no playoffs is what i meant....whats the big difference?

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Old
03-22-2010, 04:26 PM
  #100
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What about Versteeg for Dubinsky + 2nd in 2011?

Versteeg would be top 6 LW/RW on most teams in league but is stuck on Hawks checking line.

With Madden a UFA after year Dubinsky would be ideal #3 C for Hawks as his replacement

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