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Jordan Staal's potential/development

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Old
03-23-2010, 03:33 PM
  #76
wej20
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
I predict Staal's potential finished product will be something along the lines of an Ovechkin - Kesler mix. He will have the size and power of Ovechkin with the solid two way game of Kesler. If he were to be a 2nd line center I think his numbers would look like this on average 30-35 goals and 40-45 assists.
Staal's never going to have the power of Ovechkin.

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03-23-2010, 03:38 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Staal's never going to have the power of Ovechkin.
He could if he trained hard enough. Its not like strength is a god given gift, you have to work for it.

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03-23-2010, 03:43 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
He could if he trained hard enough. Its not like strength is a god given gift, you have to work for it.
He'll never be as fast or as good a hitter as OV.

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Old
03-23-2010, 06:01 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Prime:

30 goals
40 assists
Perenial Selke winner
Punishing in the corners and beats the hell out of the other teams best players
Impossible to move off the puck
Leader on a team that has cup potential


Sadly all that will be for another team. New Jersey comes to mind and it gives me nightmares. Montreal is also a possibility. John Madden is a great comparison, Guy Carbonneau is another. Except with a much higher scoring potential than either had. Hell he already scores more than either of them ever did. Though for that reason the comparison games do not really work with Staal. The comparisons that most come to mind are players like Madden, who never scored like Staal already does. Staal is a fairly unique talent to come along in a long, long time and those comparisons either minimize his superb defense or his offensive potential.

The above is not a best case possibility but seems a probability. There is a reason why half the threads on the trade boards involve him. Move aside that the return is often laughable. People know deep down the above is true and covet him much more than many here appreciate him.
Staal will be a penguin as long as he wants to be...I could see Geno going (although I would hate it). I like to think that Geno is happy being a pen and would like to stick around, but I could see a team luring him away with the big bucks (well he will be traded before that happens). I hope I am wrong...but Staal will not be going anywhere until we know what is going to happen with GEno and they probably will try to keep him. Sid will retire a penguin...MArio is raising him right!

OH yeah...Staal reminds me a lot of Ron Francis...but we will be lucky is he is half as good as Francis was. Same type of center

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:11 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
He could if he trained hard enough. Its not like strength is a god given gift, you have to work for it.
It's not a matter of strength though. Big hits are just as much about positioning, technique, and skating as strength if not moreso. Staal's fairly strong, but he doesn't have AO's wheels or techinque. He needs to learn how to position himself for a hit, how to time his hits, the proper technique, and improve his speed to get more momentum.

Maybe he can improve in that area, but I'm almost positive that if he does, it's not just going to be because of strength alone.

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:21 PM
  #81
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And disposition. Staal isn't a big fat meany. Disposition isn't something you can teach

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:22 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by angelgirl77 View Post
Staal will be a penguin as long as he wants to be...I could see Geno going (although I would hate it). I like to think that Geno is happy being a pen and would like to stick around, but I could see a team luring him away with the big bucks (well he will be traded before that happens). I hope I am wrong...but Staal will not be going anywhere until we know what is going to happen with GEno and they probably will try to keep him. Sid will retire a penguin...MArio is raising him right!

OH yeah...Staal reminds me a lot of Ron Francis...but we will be lucky is he is half as good as Francis was. Same type of center

I agree with this assessment. I think 3 to 4 years from now the Pens realize it's impossible to keep both Sid and Geno and opt to trade Malkin for a solid package of a couple of young offensive players and a dman which they sprinkle around Sid and Staal.

I'm a huge Malkin fan and would love to see him stay, but I think in the near future he might get the desire to try to be the main man elsewhere.

As for Staal, I've been more and more impressed with him each year. He has played his role perfectly in the playoffs each of the past 3 years. I've noticed improvement in his shot and passing this year. Id like to see him work on his shot accuracy, but his velocity has improved and he has been finding the open man with greater regularity. I expect him to continue to improve and his defense speaks for itself

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:54 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
And disposition. Staal isn't a big fat meany. Disposition isn't something you can teach
I disagree. Certain coaches (not just hockey) can turn choir boys into Nazis. Just a matter of pushing the right buttons.

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Old
03-23-2010, 10:05 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TimRiggins View Post
I disagree. Certain coaches (not just hockey) can turn choir boys into Nazis. Just a matter of pushing the right buttons.
You can only get so much out of a guy with coaching. Staal will never be some big, bad, punishing physical specimen. That's just not his style or mindset. He will punish guys by completely wearing them out trying to handle his size and strength, much like Joe Thornton.

I think last years playoffs are a great example of the type of physicality you are going to get from Staal. A guy who is really hard to handle 1 one 1 down low, can lean on guys defensively, and when tenacious, can be pretty hard to stop when he makes his mind up.

If Staal had a guy completely lined up in the opened ice, I'm not entirely sure he would take the opportunity to put the guy into next week.

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Old
03-23-2010, 10:54 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
I predict Staal's potential finished product will be something along the lines of an Ovechkin - Kesler mix. He will have the size and power of Ovechkin with the solid two way game of Kesler. If he were to be a 2nd line center I think his numbers would look like this on average 30-35 goals and 40-45 assists.
Staal may hit 60 to 70 pts in his prime and turn into one of the finest 2-way centers in the league. But he will never, ever, nevereverneverever be confused with Ovechkin. Even if Staal somehow engineers a Holik-like mean streak out of nowhere, he will still never have the offensive disposition and awareness of AO, not to mention the technical skills like wheels and shots etc.

That comparison is like saying Malkin will become the next Lindros (in his prime) because they are both big framed and have good hands.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:05 PM
  #86
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I still think Staal will do well if he molds his own game after Keith Primeau. A hulking tenacious checking line center that can switch between a shutdown role and an offensive playmaking role in a pinch. Primeau was of course one of the nastier defensive centers in the late 90s/early 00s - when he needed to be. Primeau was also just as effective as an offensive center with a heavy shot and can pick up garbage goals when asked to.

Staal, by all account, is looking to be even better defensively than Primeau was. But that's where the advantage ends as of now. Primeau played bigger, nastier, and can direct traffic in all three zones better than Staal can right now. I'd love to see Staal develop into something like a Primeau. Staal isn't mean enough to take over the shutdown line like Primeau can so he will need to learn to use his linemates better as well.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:23 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Elephant In The Room View Post
I still think Staal will do well if he molds his own game after Keith Primeau. A hulking tenacious checking line center that can switch between a shutdown role and an offensive playmaking role in a pinch. Primeau was of course one of the nastier defensive centers in the late 90s/early 00s - when he needed to be. Primeau was also just as effective as an offensive center with a heavy shot and can pick up garbage goals when asked to.

Staal, by all account, is looking to be even better defensively than Primeau was. But that's where the advantage ends as of now. Primeau played bigger, nastier, and can direct traffic in all three zones better than Staal can right now. I'd love to see Staal develop into something like a Primeau. Staal isn't mean enough to take over the shutdown line like Primeau can so he will need to learn to use his linemates better as well.
You used Primeau 7 times in that post.


Just thought you might want to know that.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:42 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
You used Primeau 7 times in that post.


Just thought you might want to know that.
Blame it on my simpleton Engrish as second rangurage problem. Certain hockey players get me so excited proper pronoun goes right out the window.

To think how I lost my virginity in a 30-second haze of frenzied warbled shouts of "Titov Titov Titov!!" and no, that wasn't the girl's name. She was rather confused.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:45 PM
  #89
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In his current role, I can't see how much better he can do than 55-60 points. At some point in time, Staal will need better line mates if he wants to reach his true offensive potential. A lot of posters often comment on how Sid and Geno play with third liners. Staal actually does.

That being said, I have always been an advocate of playing Geno and Staal together on a regular basis as well as giving him some time on the 1st power play. If you give him a greater offensive role, then I could him somewhere between 70-75 points, maybe more.

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Old
03-23-2010, 11:55 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountJ View Post
A lot of posters often comment on how Sid and Geno play with third liners.
That's because they do.

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Old
03-24-2010, 12:33 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Elephant In The Room View Post
That's because they do.

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Old
03-24-2010, 02:31 AM
  #92
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He's our Keith Primeau. He is only going to get better, he'll crack the 50+ point mark this year, at 21. It's amazing how many people want this guy in trade proposals but then diss him because they don't quite understand how much he means to the team and why it'd take an overpayment for Shero to even think about moving him.

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Old
03-24-2010, 02:32 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant In The Room View Post
That's because they do.
Kunitz & Poni (people that call him Ponik should die, if a guy has a nickname, it's his nickname, he doesn't get a brand new one with a new team when he's a 30yr old veteran) aside, yeah. Very much so. While Dupuis is on a hot streak, he's a bottom 6 guy, it's nice that he's close to hitting 20 goals again and for 1.4m/yr but that top 6 is sad some nights.

It's not even a top 6 fill with legit top 6 players so I refuse to call it a top 6 from now on, it's a top 3 with 3 bottom 6'ers.

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Old
03-24-2010, 02:34 AM
  #94
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Man what I wouldn't give for Staal to develop a John Leclair-type presence around the net. He has the size, and he's learning how to use it, just not the nose or the hands yet.

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03-24-2010, 06:51 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Guins71 View Post
I agree with this assessment. I think 3 to 4 years from now the Pens realize it's impossible to keep both Sid and Geno and opt to trade Malkin for a solid package of a couple of young offensive players and a dman which they sprinkle around Sid and Staal.

I'm a huge Malkin fan and would love to see him stay, but I think in the near future he might get the desire to try to be the main man elsewhere.

As for Staal, I've been more and more impressed with him each year. He has played his role perfectly in the playoffs each of the past 3 years. I've noticed improvement in his shot and passing this year. Id like to see him work on his shot accuracy, but his velocity has improved and he has been finding the open man with greater regularity. I expect him to continue to improve and his defense speaks for itself

Malkin doesn't seem like an ego maniac of a russian like Kovy or Ovy..his departure will be motivated by money not the desire to be the big man. I think that there needs to be a cap, but there also needs to be some sort of flexibility. It is handicapping the league...GM's can't wheel and deal anymore...and such a firm cap doesn't allow for "team" greatness. Teams like the Pens have been lucky in the draft, drafted well (whatever you want to call it), and built a contender. Guys play well, contracts are up and "poof" their gone to a crap team (like Malone and Tampa) that can pay them. It can't be good for the league to see great team like the Pens dismantled every other year..Totally off topic, but you know..Im just saying. Back to Jordan Staal...I think that he looks bigger every game. I think that his skating has improved dramtically too

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03-24-2010, 11:58 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephant In The Room View Post
That's because they do.
Let me clarify. A lot of posters often comment on how Sid and Geno have consistently play with third liners for the past couple of seasons. Staal actually has.

Better?

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Old
03-24-2010, 12:04 PM
  #97
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I think Staal should play 2nd line center, put Malkin with Crosby. Sign or develop another 3rd line shutdown guy.

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Old
03-24-2010, 01:08 PM
  #98
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Staal's game is all about skating. He is not a finesse player, and will never be as physical as ppl want him to be. His offensive strength is his power move to the net. He is also able to cut back into the center of the ice with his long reach. We have seen him try both moves.

Once Staal is a faster and stronger skater, he will use these two moves to dominate.

Who cares if Staal is not a super physical presence? Or that he doesn't have the most soft hands?

He just needs to improve his skating to dominate at the NHL level.

He will improve his skating and dominate at an NHL level.

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Old
03-24-2010, 01:28 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strakanator View Post
Staal's game is all about skating. He is not a finesse player, and will never be as physical as ppl want him to be. His offensive strength is his power move to the net. He is also able to cut back into the center of the ice with his long reach. We have seen him try both moves.

Once Staal is a faster and stronger skater, he will use these two moves to dominate.

Who cares if Staal is not a super physical presence? Or that he doesn't have the most soft hands?

He just needs to improve his skating to dominate at the NHL level.

He will improve his skating and dominate at an NHL level.
You really think Staal's problem is skating?

I think it's actually passing/shooting/playmaking that seems to give Jordan the most problems. I think he's already an excellent skater for a big guy.

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Old
03-24-2010, 01:31 PM
  #100
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Skating is definitely not his problem at all. He looks slow, but it has way more to do with the fact that he has these gigantic strides.

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