HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Henrik: and traffic and deflections

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-22-2010, 10:06 AM
  #1
Whoot Whoot
Biased-NYR-Homer
 
Whoot Whoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,713
vCash: 500
Henrik: and traffic and deflections

Well as this pathetic season draws to a close I am just amazed at how well our stud goaltender has played since his little depression around the holidays. I saw that penalty shot yesterday versus boston and I was like, I will take a penalty shot on Henrik any day of the week (against a nobody) rather then a real powerplay.

Anyway this year we saw a plethora of deflected, traffic goals go in on Henrik - indeed it seems the only way to score on this man. The question is - have we seen a normal amount? I mean I watch a lot of hockey and I notice this primarily during Rangers games. I think perhaps 30 percent of the goals let in this year by Henrik were deflected. Perhaps a quarter of those deflected by Rangers - ala own goal. That seems way above what it should normally be.

So what is the deal? He is just bad with deflections? (I don't think so). Do the rangers cause more deflections from their "defensive" style - if they even have one. Or is Henrik so good at stopping clear shots that he only lets these and the usual "can't" stop that one chances?

I am sure we have all noticed this pattern though.

Whoot Whoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 10:31 AM
  #2
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,017
vCash: 500
The reason we see so many deflections against is because our defense is pathetically soft, specifically the Redden/Gilroy pairing. The opposition has absolutely no fear when it comes to going to the dirty areas of the ice.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 10:40 AM
  #3
Banks3rdLineCenter
 
Banks3rdLineCenter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 2,052
vCash: 500
When I watch other (good) teams it seems like their D-men are much more aware of when to attempt to block a shot and when to just get the hell out of the way. Our guys seem to just stand there and try to make half-assed attempts to block shots that result in deflections on net. They need to learn to just get out of the way if it's a sharp angle shot from distance.

Banks3rdLineCenter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 10:45 AM
  #4
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
vCash: 500
Hank plays deep in his nets which causes more deflections to go in than other goalies.

However, Hank is awesome down low where basically nothing goes by him so it evens the deflections out.. IMO

Most NHL goalies will stop pucks they can see with no deflections and screens... Hank just stay back in the crease and it seems a majority of the goals he lets up are from deflections...

msv957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 10:47 AM
  #5
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The reason we see so many deflections against is because our defense is pathetically soft, specifically the Redden/Gilroy pairing. The opposition has absolutely no fear when it comes to going to the dirty areas of the ice.
That is arguably the worst pairing in the league.

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 10:47 AM
  #6
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,154
vCash: 500
It does seem like there are a lot more of these goals against the rangers, but its because of the style Henrik plays, you are more susceptible to those goals the deeper you play in net.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 10:52 AM
  #7
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
It does seem like there are a lot more of these goals against the rangers, but its because of the style Henrik plays, you are more susceptible to those goals the deeper you play in net.
The thought is Henrik's style being part of the issue is arguable in my opinion. Another point of view could be that he has a bit more time to react to deflections by playing deeper in the net.

Nonetheless, I think his style has very little to do with it. As a team, the Rangers have been steadily going downhill over the past year when it comes to defensive awareness. They are soft, they run around in their own end, and more often than not, their poor play is deserving of bad bounces.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 10:52 AM
  #8
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,296
vCash: 500
Lundqvist is probably the only successful NHL goalie that I've seen who plays so deep in his net. I've seen him come out a bit more this year, but he still stays way in deep, it's kind of strange.

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 11:15 AM
  #9
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The thought is Henrik's style being part of the issue is arguable in my opinion. Another point of view could be that he has a bit more time to react to deflections by playing deeper in the net.

Nonetheless, I think his style has very little to do with it. As a team, the Rangers have been steadily going downhill over the past year when it comes to defensive awareness. They are soft, they run around in their own end, and more often than not, their poor play is deserving of bad bounces.
Its probably somewhere in the middle...cant say i disagree here.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 11:38 AM
  #10
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banks3rdLineCenter View Post
When I watch other (good) teams it seems like their D-men are much more aware of when to attempt to block a shot and when to just get the hell out of the way. Our guys seem to just stand there and try to make half-assed attempts to block shots that result in deflections on net. They need to learn to just get out of the way if it's a sharp angle shot from distance.
I think you're right. I remember watching Vancouver last year in the playoffs and the announcers were talking about how the team knew that Luongo could really only be consistently scored on by a deflection and then they showed clip after clip after clip of Vancouver players getting out of the way of shots so that Luongo could see the shot and stop it. This team seems to think its always a good idea to get a piece of a shot, and as we've seen over and over, thats not the case. Sometimes its best to let the goalie get a clear view of the puck coming in, especially a guy like Hank who is harder than most to beat without a deflection.

haveandare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 12:14 PM
  #11
mullichicken25
Registered User
 
mullichicken25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,596
vCash: 500
He's no where near the problem with this team....but he's not perfect either...i feel like people over rate him considerablly

he routinely stops impossible shots.... and routinely lets in garbage

he's single handedly won us a bunch of games....and single handedly lost a bunch

i love the guy, and i feel his flaws would be less noticable on a better tam, but i just wish he would play up to his abilties consistantly

mullichicken25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 01:14 PM
  #12
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
He's no where near the problem with this team....but he's not perfect either...i feel like people over rate him considerablly

he routinely stops impossible shots.... and routinely lets in garbage

he's single handedly won us a bunch of games....and single handedly lost a bunch

i love the guy, and i feel his flaws would be less noticable on a better tam, but i just wish he would play up to his abilties consistantly
I agree... He is over rated over here on HF but he is a definate 10 goalie in the world... He does have some flaws but he also has some real strengths to his game..

msv957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:16 PM
  #13
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,942
vCash: 500
its cause henrik stays so far in his net. if he was a bit more aggressive like Miller, those deflections wouldnt be deflected like 3 feet left to right or top to bottom when they hit him, it would be more like a foot and a half or something, making it more likely to make a save. but, by staying so deep in the net, he also makes the back door pass, and most things side to side much tougher to beat him. for example, if hes out aggressive against a guy who is 15 feet out, and he passes the puck side to side, that guy has a wide open net to shoot at (assumign Henrik doesnt read the play or hes not being checked by our soft defense). by staying in the net, Henrik can adapt to all of those shots. Deflections and goal up high are going to go in, its the nature of his style. every style has holes.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:21 PM
  #14
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
its cause henrik stays so far in his net. if he was a bit more aggressive like Miller, those deflections wouldnt be deflected like 3 feet left to right or top to bottom when they hit him, it would be more like a foot and a half or something, making it more likely to make a save. but, by staying so deep in the net, he also makes the back door pass, and most things side to side much tougher to beat him. for example, if hes out aggressive against a guy who is 15 feet out, and he passes the puck side to side, that guy has a wide open net to shoot at (assumign Henrik doesnt read the play or hes not being checked by our soft defense). by staying in the net, Henrik can adapt to all of those shots. Deflections and goal up high are going to go in, its the nature of his style. every style has holes.
Its no surprise that you'd pin this issue on Lundqvist's style rather than admitting our head coach is either totally inept at teaching team defense, or just doesnt really care about it...probably a little bit of both.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:24 PM
  #15
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,296
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its no surprise that you'd pin this issue on Lundqvist's style rather than admitting our head coach is either totally inept at teaching team defense, or just doesnt really care about it...probably a little bit of both.
The same thing happened under Renney, it's nothing new. Lundqvist is a great goalie, but his style is definitely not flawless. Why do you think he mainly gets beat upstairs? Because he stays so far in his net that the advantage of taking away the angles is turned against him. If you're further in the net, more net is exposed.

I'm not sure why he does it, maybe it helps him get across the crease faster, IDK, but it does create some flaws in his game.

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:27 PM
  #16
mjolnir13
Registered User
 
mjolnir13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
The main reason for this is because there is WAY too much traffic in front of the net. Our dmen do not clear out opposing forwards, nor are they in a position to stop, block any attempted passes through the crease or slot area. Most times, they are behind the opposing player which makes them an easy target to bank pucks off of.

If they are in front of the player, that player inevitably gets loose for those bang, bang goals.

mjolnir13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:28 PM
  #17
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Every goalie has a weak spot. Hank's is well known - top glove or 6th hole (under the catching arm). Second BOS goal was just right there. In order to address the problem with covering the top of the net on glove side (his blocker play is fine), Henrik tries to stay up longer. That is how he is at times unable to stop some of the quick low net goals due to deflections.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:30 PM
  #18
mjolnir13
Registered User
 
mjolnir13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
The same thing happened under Renney, it's nothing new. Lundqvist is a great goalie, but his style is definitely not flawless. Why do you think he mainly gets beat upstairs? Because he stays so far in his net that the advantage of taking away the angles is turned against him. If you're further in the net, more net is exposed.

I'm not sure why he does it, maybe it helps him get across the crease faster, IDK, but it does create some flaws in his game.
It started after the Olympics in 2006(?) when he had the hip injury. Before that, you always saw Henrik out at the top of the crease challenging the shooters. I think it also had a lot to do with The Tourists (Rozy and The Leak) playing traffic cone in front of time as well.

mjolnir13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:39 PM
  #19
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The reason we see so many deflections against is because our defense is pathetically soft, specifically the Redden/Gilroy pairing. The opposition has absolutely no fear when it comes to going to the dirty areas of the ice.
Gilroy is not NHL ready. Redden is KHL ready.

Seriously, I would exercise some patience with young Ds. Toughness comes with beard usually.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:40 PM
  #20
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,671
vCash: 500
I wonder if Hank will adjust his game a little bit next season. There are certain cases where there is almost no benefit of playing so deep in the net. Breakaways for example. He stopped like 3 or 4 of them in the last few games because he came way out. He wasn't doing all season though

There is also no reason to stay that deep when you have a 1 on 1 type situation either. But in this case the guy can wait for a trailer and pass it off. I really don't trust anyone on our D to disrupt that to be honest

I still think he's been a top 5 goalie this season considering the circumstances. The inexperience of the defense has let him down more than previous years and his SV% this season is still higher than what he has accomplished in his career

I don't watch every other game, so I have no idea about the deflections. But it seems like almost half of the goals scored against him were tipped somewhere... even if a little bit.

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:43 PM
  #21
we want cup
Ants in the Pants
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 11,155
vCash: 500
I don't buy that it's his style.

Our D-corps has been so weak the last few years that there are always opposing players in front of the net, which draws some of our guys there, as well. With no ability to clear the crease, it makes sense that we would see many more deflection goals than other teams, who have better defenses.

__________________

RANGERS =
we want cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:47 PM
  #22
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 16,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
The same thing happened under Renney, it's nothing new. Lundqvist is a great goalie, but his style is definitely not flawless. Why do you think he mainly gets beat upstairs? Because he stays so far in his net that the advantage of taking away the angles is turned against him. If you're further in the net, more net is exposed.

I'm not sure why he does it, maybe it helps him get across the crease faster, IDK, but it does create some flaws in his game.
If you want to make this a broader discussion about Lundqvist's style, we can do that, but tell me something...what goalie is "good" at dealing with deflections???

So yea, youre right in a sense...Lundqvist, like every goalie in the world, has trouble with deflections and "the same thing happened under Renney."

The larger issue is that it is happening at a much greater frequency this year and thats because defensive responsibility is sorely lacking on this team. If this squad was a bit more responsible in its own zone, they'd be a playoff team.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 02:58 PM
  #23
msv957
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
I don't buy that it's his style.

Our D-corps has been so weak the last few years that there are always opposing players in front of the net, which draws some of our guys there, as well. With no ability to clear the crease, it makes sense that we would see many more deflection goals than other teams, who have better defenses.
I think the Rangers defenseman are pretty good... Probably right around the middle of the league best.... Maybe, just maybe, some of the goals the Rangers let up are because of Hank and not the defense? Just saying....

Nothing against Hank, I believe he is top 10 in the world, He is not perfect as he has flaws like some of the other goalie in the league but he his a DAMN good goalie that could win a Stanley cup behind a great team.

msv957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 03:01 PM
  #24
BwayBshirt
Registered User
 
BwayBshirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My NY State of Mind
Country: United States
Posts: 3,403
vCash: 500
I have to agree that the poor defense in front of Henrik is more responsible for the higher number of deflections going in this season than his own positioning, although that certainly hurts him too.

However, Lundqvist has had more bad-angle goals go in against him this season than before too. That is squarely pinned on his positioning.

He lives by the sword & dies by it.

BwayBshirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2010, 03:06 PM
  #25
we want cup
Ants in the Pants
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 11,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
I think the Rangers defenseman are pretty good... Probably right around the middle of the league best....

Maybe when Rozy is playing well, Girardi's brain isn't farting all over the ice, and Redden goes through one of his rare stretches of less mediocre play, they could be described as middle of the pack. All of those things come together so rarely, though, and generally two of those three are playing like poop during any given game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Maybe, just maybe, some of the goals the Rangers let up are because of Hank and not the defense? Just saying....

Nothing against Hank, I believe he is top 10 in the world, He is not perfect as he has flaws like some of the other goalie in the league but he his a DAMN good goalie that could win a Stanley cup behind a great team.

I'm not saying that he isn't responsible for any goals. The high glove goals are something he still needs to work on (though they've been much better this season, IMO), and I would like to see him play BIT further out.

All I'm saying is that I don't think the deflection goals are a result of his style so much as poor defending, which is essentially the issue mentioned by the OP.

we want cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.