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Old
03-23-2010, 04:52 PM
  #26
r0bert8841
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Guys Edmonton is going to be done rebuilding by the time the draft is over. They have a good good team. Hemsky isn't going anywhere. Keep Hall on the 2nd line with less pressure and more room, that could be a dangerous team. Then throw in Eberle, MSP, Omark and players like Gagner, Cogliano, and Brule are in line for their 4th season breakout like Penner did this past season. They will be dangerous.

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03-23-2010, 05:03 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
Always a chance but not likely IMO. He doesn't look like he's ready to retire yet. As for signing for less, you never know but 6M is already a pretty hefty discount from 7.45M. That's already almost a 20% discount off his salary. Do you really think he takes less than Rafalski is making? At 6M he'd be just a bit under Pronger's salary. He'd be looking up at guys like Jovanovski, Redden, Timonen, Phanuef.....and just a fraction over guys like McCabe. Sure he COULD take less but even 6M is probably undershooting it some. If he signs for under 6M I'll be pleasantly shocked.
I really don't know, FF. I really hope so but that is me...

They way I look at it, is that, Lidstrom is financial independent. But I don’t think athletes think that way. I mean, $4 million per year is more money then some people make in their entire life

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03-23-2010, 05:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Guys Edmonton is going to be done rebuilding by the time the draft is over. They have a good good team. Hemsky isn't going anywhere. Keep Hall on the 2nd line with less pressure and more room, that could be a dangerous team. Then throw in Eberle, MSP, Omark and players like Gagner, Cogliano, and Brule are in line for their 4th season breakout like Penner did this past season. They will be dangerous.
Their defense will still be dubious, at best, and their goaltending is, well, bottom of the barrel.

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03-23-2010, 05:54 PM
  #29
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Well you never know, maybe Dubnyk steps up, they will at least be more interesting with all the younger guys. now they are oh so boring.

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03-23-2010, 05:57 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Guys Edmonton is going to be done rebuilding by the time the draft is over. They have a good good team. Hemsky isn't going anywhere. Keep Hall on the 2nd line with less pressure and more room, that could be a dangerous team. Then throw in Eberle, MSP, Omark and players like Gagner, Cogliano, and Brule are in line for their 4th season breakout like Penner did this past season. They will be dangerous.
I would like to think that they can improve, but they are horrible at mentoring and developing their youth, and they have cap killing contracts on their team currently

Horcoff at 5 more years at 5.5 million a season
Gilbert at 4 more years of 4 million a season
Souray at 2 more years I believe at like 5.4 million a season
Moreau 1 more year at 2 million a season
Nilsson 1 more year at 2 million a season (I still think guy has solid skill but was ruined by Edmonton and needs a change of scenery)
Patrick O sullivan at 2.3 million a season (I think he needs a change of scenery as well)
Khabibulin at 3 more years at 3.75 million a season (not that he sucks, but he old now and I don't think can stay healthy enough to warrant his salary)

Their contract situation was so bad that even though they were able to load off Lubo Visnovsky and Denis Grebeshkov, those two were the better value over their respective counterparts, Souray and Gilbert, but because those two have cap killing contracts, they had to part ways with the ones they did.

Tambo did get rid of some garbage, that being Staois, and might just have to buy out some of the other junk or put them on waivers and leave them in the minors, but that team still needs some major fixing up if they want to be competitive again. The Horcoff contract has got to be one of the 5 worse contracts currently in the NHL. They might not even be able to keep all of their potential youth unless they get rid of some of these contracts in the offseason.

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:17 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Probert Owns You View Post
Their defense will still be dubious, at best, and their goaltending is, well, bottom of the barrel.
All the more reason to keep Hemsky. Maybe they will end up like the caps to a lesser extent. Also Souray is pretty good defensively and Whitney too but I am not sure how long Souray will be around.

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:25 PM
  #32
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I'm guessing Detroit will re-up their own, add Mattias Ritola & Jakub Kindl and then stand pat.

Mule($4mm)-Datsyuk($6.7mm)-Homer($1.75mm)
Fil($3mm)-Z($6.1mm)-Bert($1.5mm)
Cleary($2.8mm)-Helm($0.8mm)-Eaves($0.75mm)
Miller($0.75mm)-Abdelkader($1mm)-Draper($1.6mm)
Ritola($0.75mm)

Total: $31.5mm

Lids($7mm)-Rafi($6mm)
Stuart($3.75)-Kron($3mm)
Lilja($1mm)-E($0.9mm)
Kindl(0.9mm)

Total: $22.55mm

Howard ($0.7mm)
Ozzie ($1.4mm)

Total: $2.1mm

Roster salary: $56.18mm

I think Mursak and Tatar have a chance to crack the lineup but since they have waiver-free trips back to Grand Rapids the Wings will do everything they can to keep them on the Griffins.

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Old
03-23-2010, 10:51 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
I'm guessing Detroit will re-up their own, add Mattias Ritola & Jakub Kindl and then stand pat.

Mule($4mm)-Datsyuk($6.7mm)-Homer($1.75mm)
Fil($3mm)-Z($6.1mm)-Bert($1.5mm)
Cleary($2.8mm)-Helm($0.8mm)-Eaves($0.75mm)
Miller($0.75mm)-Abdelkader($1mm)-Draper($1.6mm)
Ritola($0.75mm)

Total: $31.5mm

Lids($7mm)-Rafi($6mm)
Stuart($3.75)-Kron($3mm)
Lilja($1mm)-E($0.9mm)
Kindl(0.9mm)

Total: $22.55mm

Howard ($0.7mm)
Ozzie ($1.4mm)

Total: $2.1mm

Roster salary: $56.18mm

I think Mursak and Tatar have a chance to crack the lineup but since they have waiver-free trips back to Grand Rapids the Wings will do everything they can to keep them on the Griffins.
Ummmm isn't Lids out of contract at seasons end? If he takes $7 mil I'd be veeeery disappointed. Hoping $4-5.

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03-24-2010, 07:35 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Ummmm isn't Lids out of contract at seasons end? If he takes $7 mil I'd be veeeery disappointed. Hoping $4-5.
4? Are you kidding? He's still one of the top defenseman in the league and he's worth his current salary next year. He's not coming in at half of what he's currently making. 6.5 would be a big discount for Lidstrom; 4-5 is completely out of touch with the value of Lidstrom.

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03-24-2010, 07:53 AM
  #35
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Yeah he took less once the salaries were rolled back due to the salary cap but he wasn't taking a steep discount and if he comes back I'd expect something somewhere in the neighborhood of $6-$7mm. I just guessed high because I remember Holland saying something about Lids being the highest paid player on the team so I don't see him making the same as Rafi or less than Pavs or Z.

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03-24-2010, 08:29 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
I would like to think that they can improve, but they are horrible at mentoring and developing their youth, and they have cap killing contracts on their team currently

Horcoff at 5 more years at 5.5 million a season
Gilbert at 4 more years of 4 million a season
Souray at 2 more years I believe at like 5.4 million a season
Moreau 1 more year at 2 million a season
Nilsson 1 more year at 2 million a season (I still think guy has solid skill but was ruined by Edmonton and needs a change of scenery)
Patrick O sullivan at 2.3 million a season (I think he needs a change of scenery as well)
Khabibulin at 3 more years at 3.75 million a season (not that he sucks, but he old now and I don't think can stay healthy enough to warrant his salary)

Their contract situation was so bad that even though they were able to load off Lubo Visnovsky and Denis Grebeshkov, those two were the better value over their respective counterparts, Souray and Gilbert, but because those two have cap killing contracts, they had to part ways with the ones they did.

Tambo did get rid of some garbage, that being Staois, and might just have to buy out some of the other junk or put them on waivers and leave them in the minors, but that team still needs some major fixing up if they want to be competitive again. The Horcoff contract has got to be one of the 5 worse contracts currently in the NHL. They might not even be able to keep all of their potential youth unless they get rid of some of these contracts in the offseason.
Gilbert is having a terrible season but he's a 6'3, right-shooting mobile defenseman that put up 45 points last year. I would think he would have trade value.

Horcoff is a lead balloon, no arguing that. This is what happens when you pay 5.5 mil long-term for a 55 point player.

Staios was overpaid but at least he was effective.

O'Sullivan just changed scenery last season. If he needs another change already then I'd say he's probably just not very good.

The Bulin contract is awful as well, and he signed it after his 35th so they can't get him off the cap no matter what.

Then again, they're going to end up with either Seguin or Hall or Fowler, and that will help them out a great deal.

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Old
03-25-2010, 10:59 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by PocketGnome View Post
4? Are you kidding? He's still one of the top defenseman in the league and he's worth his current salary next year. He's not coming in at half of what he's currently making. 6.5 would be a big discount for Lidstrom; 4-5 is completely out of touch with the value of Lidstrom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Yeah he took less once the salaries were rolled back due to the salary cap but he wasn't taking a steep discount and if he comes back I'd expect something somewhere in the neighborhood of $6-$7mm. I just guessed high because I remember Holland saying something about Lids being the highest paid player on the team so I don't see him making the same as Rafi or less than Pavs or Z.
While I totally agree Lidas is worth his current contract, even for next year, what youre both saying is the captain of this team wont take a $1-2 million dollar paycut just because?

You do know he is the highest paid defensemen in NHL history, yes? Illitch has pad him close to $90 million dollars in his career...he can take a cut to help the team.

I think he will. $5-6 tops...maybe even as low as $4.5. His call, really.

Yzerman, when he took his cut, wasnt nearly as good as he once was, but as the captain, he did it anyway. Lidas will, too.

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03-25-2010, 11:03 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
While I totally agree Lidas is worth his current contract, even for next year, what youre both saying is the captain of this team wont take a $1-2 million dollar paycut just because?

You do know he is the highest paid defensemen in NHL history, yes? Illitch has pad him close to $90 million dollars in his career...he can take a cut to help the team.

I think he will. $5-6 tops...maybe even as low as $4.5. His call, really.

Yzerman, when he took his cut, wasnt nearly as good as he once was, but as the captain, he did it anyway. Lidas will, too.
I hope you are right. I don't want to bash on Lidas but he has used the "Im going home/to retire"-tactic everytime he's about to be an FA.

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Old
03-25-2010, 11:10 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DetBigWangs View Post
It may be my fault for posting a more tangential idea, but what I suggested was signing a low value Hemsky in FA in a few years. At the end of this year, I say we don't need him. I suggested it would be interesting if we could get him in free agency if his value drops for some reason over the next couple years.

Reading comprehension please
Common sense please

Explain to me why we would need Hemsky even at a reduced price a few years from now. He's weak, defensively he's ehh, and he's streaky as all hell. Oh please, sign me up. If you think he will go anywhere with a reduced price, he will ever be HORRIBLE and no one in their right mind will want him (Tanguay is a perfect example, went from damn good to holy **** please no in no time flat) or he will get a lucrative contract from a team who is willing to overpay. We need a scoring winger, we are built long term for a demand for scoring wingers. Again, now, later, whatever we dont have a use or need for Ales. Thanks for playing.

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03-25-2010, 11:11 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post

I think he will. $5-6 tops...maybe even as low as $4.5. His call, really.

Yzerman, when he took his cut, wasnt nearly as good as he once was, but as the captain, he did it anyway. Lidas will, too.
Well he could drop down to $6.5mm and still be the highest paid player. I would be shocked (pleasantly so) if he signed for $4.5mm or heck - anything less than $6mm.

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Old
03-25-2010, 11:13 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Gilbert is having a terrible season but he's a 6'3, right-shooting mobile defenseman that put up 45 points last year. I would think he would have trade value.

Horcoff is a lead balloon, no arguing that. This is what happens when you pay 5.5 mil long-term for a 55 point player.

Staios was overpaid but at least he was effective.

O'Sullivan just changed scenery last season. If he needs another change already then I'd say he's probably just not very good.

The Bulin contract is awful as well, and he signed it after his 35th so they can't get him off the cap no matter what.

Then again, they're going to end up with either Seguin or Hall or Fowler, and that will help them out a great deal.
Gilbert is going to hurt them if he cant revisit his 45 point season. He has the potential to do some damange but I think we all saw this year that he's maybe not the best player to have on your top defensive pairing baring injuries. With Chorney and Petry, who knows what might happen to this guy.

Sully needs another change. He needs to play with 2 players who are VERY defensively responsible and not with an overrated centerman like Horcoff. Sully IMHO could flourish with a guy like Kesler or Mike Richards in Philly.

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Old
03-25-2010, 11:24 AM
  #42
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Hemsky has great work ethic.(His problem is that he has to do so much because he hasn't had great linemates to play with) I also think that the Red Wings would be a perfect spot for him because Hemsky is decent in both ends of the rink, but he could use some supporting cast to bring out all his talent.

He is a pass first guy, but has a great snap shot. If he was on my team, I would have a C like Jeff Carter on his line. I would think playing with Holmstrom and Zetterberg, Hemsky would be a 90 point player.

Hemsky won't make it to FA. If he isn't resigning he is traded. Some suggest that if it took Hemsky + to get the Bruins pick and go 1-2 in the draft, they would move him right away. (Some figure he is gone after this deal regardless)

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03-25-2010, 11:38 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by DarkReign View Post
While I totally agree Lidas is worth his current contract, even for next year, what youre both saying is the captain of this team wont take a $1-2 million dollar paycut just because?

You do know he is the highest paid defensemen in NHL history, yes? Illitch has pad him close to $90 million dollars in his career...he can take a cut to help the team.

I think he will. $5-6 tops...maybe even as low as $4.5. His call, really.

Yzerman, when he took his cut, wasnt nearly as good as he once was, but as the captain, he did it anyway. Lidas will, too.
He's currently making $7.45m. I can see him taking at the absolute most 1.45m-2m off the top of that. Anything else seems completely unrealistic and undervalued. If he takes 4m a season he's almost cutting his salary in half... he's not taking that much off.

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03-25-2010, 12:48 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Common sense please

Explain to me why we would need Hemsky even at a reduced price a few years from now. He's weak, defensively he's ehh, and he's streaky as all hell. Oh please, sign me up. If you think he will go anywhere with a reduced price, he will ever be HORRIBLE and no one in their right mind will want him (Tanguay is a perfect example, went from damn good to holy **** please no in no time flat) or he will get a lucrative contract from a team who is willing to overpay. We need a scoring winger, we are built long term for a demand for scoring wingers. Again, now, later, whatever we dont have a use or need for Ales. Thanks for playing.
What it means is that he has the raw skill to be a possible reclamation project (like we've never done that before right?). Also, no playmaker ever had it click in his head that he needs to shoot more right? I already stated that the need for him isn't high enough that we should make a move for him now. But, upgrading our overall skill on the cheap regardless of player type, does suit our system. I'm putting out an idea to watch out for and keep in our back pocket along these aforementioned lines. Why do keep talking like it's something I believe WILL happen. I know there's a lot of what ifs involved.

I put the whole idea out there as my only possible thought on how he could come to the Wings, nothing more or less.

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03-25-2010, 12:58 PM
  #45
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Reclamation projects don't have $4.1m cap hits. If we're looking at a reclamation project, look at Svatos this summer.

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03-25-2010, 01:07 PM
  #46
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Reclamation projects don't have $4.1m cap hits. If we're looking at a reclamation project, look at Svatos this summer.
Hemsky's not a reclamation project... he's a pretty consistent ~70 point player on horrible teams. I think he could be an 80-90 point guy on a good team, which at $4.1 million would be a bargain.

Granted, I don't think he's a very good fit with the Wings. He's a pass first player. The Wings need a sniper. Hank can play the sniper role pretty well, though. Maybe he and Hemsky would click.


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03-25-2010, 01:30 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
All the more reason to keep Hemsky. Maybe they will end up like the caps to a lesser extent. Also Souray is pretty good defensively and Whitney too but I am not sure how long Souray will be around.
Whitney is awful defensively, he gets torched by guys driving to the net on the outside all the time.

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03-25-2010, 01:38 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Common sense please

Explain to me why we would need Hemsky even at a reduced price a few years from now. He's weak, defensively he's ehh, and he's streaky as all hell. Oh please, sign me up. If you think he will go anywhere with a reduced price, he will ever be HORRIBLE and no one in their right mind will want him (Tanguay is a perfect example, went from damn good to holy **** please no in no time flat) or he will get a lucrative contract from a team who is willing to overpay. We need a scoring winger, we are built long term for a demand for scoring wingers. Again, now, later, whatever we dont have a use or need for Ales. Thanks for playing.
This post is oh so wrong.

Hemsky is only streaky because he never has anybody with any skill to play with. He is a dynamic forward who can create offense on his own. He has a great shot (that he doesn't use often enough, though had started to until he got hurt) and he is an elite passer. Would be a perfect fit for Zetterberg.

Also, who cares if he resigns if we don't have to overpay in a trade. He will help elevate this team for the next 2 season and could extend the effective careers of our other star players by lessening their burden for the next 2 seasons.

Anyways, it is clear you know very little about Hemsky and what kind of a player he is...

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03-25-2010, 01:55 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MikeyDangles View Post
This post is oh so wrong.

Hemsky is only streaky because he never has anybody with any skill to play with. He is a dynamic forward who can create offense on his own. He has a great shot (that he doesn't use often enough, though had started to until he got hurt) and he is an elite passer. Would be a perfect fit for Zetterberg.

Also, who cares if he resigns if we don't have to overpay in a trade. He will help elevate this team for the next 2 season and could extend the effective careers of our other star players by lessening their burden for the next 2 seasons.

Anyways, it is clear you know very little about Hemsky and what kind of a player he is...
I was thinking the same thing lol. Having watched the Oilers for most of my life, I can tell you straight up that Hemsky does have some deficiencies, but he is not weak on the puck (sure he isn't as strong as Pavel on the puck, but how many are for that size), and if he takes a good hit he has a good knack for getting right back up and getting back into the play. He has had to virtually play his entire career with Shawn Horcoff as his centre, and having watched that piece of **** and his suckage for so long, if Hemsky had a real finisher he would be a ppg player easily, even on the craptastic oilers. The amount of glorious one timers that Horcoff misses each year from beautiful Hemsky passes is outright embarassing.

As I stated in the original post, I know most likely this wouldn't work because ideally we could use a goal scoring winger, but at what those might cost, and the possibility of Hudler coming back, if Hudler could be part of a package to Edmonton to bring Hemsky here, I thought it could be a good move on our part as Hemsky at 4.1 million for 2 years is a much better value than Hudler at 2.8 million for 2 years. However, it would be a hard sell to Edmonton given they have lots of small forwards, unless they were able to unload a number of their current small forwards and be tricked into thinking it would be a good move since Hudler and Omarck played together a bit in the KHL and each has one year left on their current KHL deals.

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03-26-2010, 11:46 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by DetBigWangs View Post
What it means is that he has the raw skill to be a possible reclamation project (like we've never done that before right?). Also, no playmaker ever had it click in his head that he needs to shoot more right? I already stated that the need for him isn't high enough that we should make a move for him now. But, upgrading our overall skill on the cheap regardless of player type, does suit our system. I'm putting out an idea to watch out for and keep in our back pocket along these aforementioned lines. Why do keep talking like it's something I believe WILL happen. I know there's a lot of what ifs involved.

I put the whole idea out there as my only possible thought on how he could come to the Wings, nothing more or less.
How is he a reclamation project? Check his stats the past few years, he averages near a ppg the past few seasons excluding this one. As we saw this year with the wings, our top guys didn't produce when we had our injuries, well hemsky always plays with less talent and usually makes something happen.

If we could grt him, I'd love to have hemsky on this team, if our team is healthy imagine what he could do playing with good linemates.

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