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Confident Jonathan Ericsson helping Red Wings during stretch run for playoffs

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03-30-2010, 01:49 AM
  #1
jaster
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Confident Jonathan Ericsson helping Red Wings during stretch run for playoffs

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....icsson_he.html

A couple days old, but I thought it was worth pointing out. I think the Wings made the right call trying to get Ericsson going and not defaulting to Lebda. No risk and lots of benefit. This way, the better player is up to speed and the Wings have better depth going into the playoffs. With a healthy roster and everyone playing up to their abilities, I think Lebda is pretty good guy to have as your 7th defenseman.

So cheers to Lilja's health and Ericsson getting back on track

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03-30-2010, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....icsson_he.html

A couple days old, but I thought it was worth pointing out. I think the Wings made the right call trying to get Ericsson going and not defaulting to Lebda. No risk and lots of benefit. This way, the better player is up to speed and the Wings have better depth going into the playoffs. With a healthy roster and everyone playing up to their abilities, I think Lebda is pretty good guy to have as your 7th defenseman.

So cheers to Lilja's health and Ericsson getting back on track
Last few games I saw, Ericsson didn't look so hot.
He's got to use the last few weeks to a) keep treading water and b) figure out how to swim again.

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03-30-2010, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Last few games I saw, Ericsson didn't look so hot.
Wings have had some entertaining games this past week and a half, it's too bad you missed them.

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03-30-2010, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Last few games I saw, Ericsson didn't look so hot.
He's got to use the last few weeks to a) keep treading water and b) figure out how to swim again.
Ya you missed some good games by him. 1g 1a +4 in one of the games. He seemed to be given lots of ice time by Babs. He is getting back the confidence and poise he had last year at this time

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03-30-2010, 05:45 AM
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Sorry, jaster, but Ericsson got hot when the Wings got healthy. Coinkydink?

And when they started playing like the Wings again. I'm sure the bad spell was all due to Lebda, either that or Stuart.

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03-30-2010, 06:46 AM
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Our very own Mr. Clutch?

He played horrible during the regular season, but has been reasonably solid recently. He still has some epic brain fart (as SteveDangle says) moments, but not as bad as before. He was hopeless earlier during the season. Hopefully next year he can have a proper season without all these injuries.

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03-30-2010, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Sorry, jaster, but Ericsson got hot when the Wings got healthy. Coinkydink?
Actually, Ericsson got hot when the Wings stopped playing Lebda with him.

Lilja has been healthy for about a month now, so keep that in mind when you see this:

35.07% EV 52 ERICSSON,JONATHAN - 22 LEBDA,BRETT
14.44% EV 52 ERICSSON,JONATHAN - 23 STUART,BRAD
10.24% EV 52 ERICSSON,JONATHAN - 5 LIDSTROM,NICKLAS
9.43% EV 52 ERICSSON,JONATHAN - 3 LILJA,ANDREAS

So IMO it looks like he's playing a lot better in part because he has a linemate that fits more with his style of play as a somewhat aggressive offensive player from the blue line.

Unfortunately, since defensive pairings are determined via random lottery before the start of each game, we can't give any credit for that change to the coaching staff. More's the pity.

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And when they started playing like the Wings again. I'm sure the bad spell was all due to Lebda, either that or Stuart.
People always underestimate what impact changing one or two people on a roster can have. The ripple effect in terms of matchups is remarkable. Now that Lilja is back, Stuart doesn't have to play so much with Meech and Lebda because those guys are scraches. That helps Stuart. Lilja himself is a matchup improvement with Ericsson, which helps both he and Ericsson. Ericsson doesn't have to play so much with Meech and Lebda (now scratches) either. So that helps him from that direction, too.

One little addition of a guy who really isn't all that great, and it leads to a direct improvement in the entire bottom 4.

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03-30-2010, 07:39 AM
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I wonder if Lilja will feel loyal enough to sign a 2 year 2m deal with the Wings to possibly finish out his career here. He really is a stabilizing force on the backend.

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03-30-2010, 08:19 AM
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I wonder if Lilja will feel loyal enough to sign a 2 year 2m deal with the Wings to possibly finish out his career here. He really is a stabilizing force on the backend.
He's going to get at least 1.5 a year from the Wings if he stays. Honestly, I think he's going to get a 2 year 2-2.25 per offer from someone else and leave. Guys like Lilja always have a ton of teams who need what they do.

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03-30-2010, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Sorry, jaster, but Ericsson got hot when the Wings got healthy. Coinkydink?
Lilja. Ericsson began improving his game when Lilja came back. I'd been waiting for that pairing for a loooooong time, and now that it's here, I'm glad to see it is indeed an effective unit. Lebda was a terrible partner for Ericsson. My point was just that I am glad the Wings pushed that unit, rather than scratch Ericsson for the year and default to Lebda with Lilja, as many here wanted.


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And when they started playing like the Wings again. I'm sure the bad spell was all due to Lebda, either that or Stuart.
Ericsson got into the funk for whatever reason, but it was going to be 100 times tougher for Lebda to help pull him out of it, compared to Lilja. But again, I don't care too much about the reasons, I'm just happy the Wings didn't go with Lebda over Ericsson when Lilja came back.

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03-30-2010, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
He's going to get at least 1.5 a year from the Wings if he stays. Honestly, I think he's going to get a 2 year 2-2.25 per offer from someone else and leave. Guys like Lilja always have a ton of teams who need what they do.
I think his concussion was a blessing in disguise. It will lower the interest from other teams. Not sure if it will lower it enough to ensure he stays in Detroit, but I think it's pretty likely he comes back.

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03-30-2010, 12:09 PM
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Maybe Lilja is a stabilizing force because Lillypads plays his best when he doesn't think and just makes the simple, consistent play and moves his feet.

Perhaps that rubs off on Ericsson?

Either way, I haven't really noticed Ericsson much lately, other than when he's done a couple good things. That's a compliment for a bottom pairing guy.

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03-30-2010, 12:36 PM
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If the Wings miss the playoffs, it's Ericsson's fault.


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03-30-2010, 12:39 PM
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Shouldn't people be saying Ericsson was a terrible partner for Lebda instead of the other way around? I am fairly certain it was Ericsson that doomed that pairing, not Lebda.

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03-30-2010, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Athtar View Post
Shouldn't people be saying Ericsson was a terrible partner for Lebda instead of the other way around? I am fairly certain it was Ericsson that doomed that pairing, not Lebda.
Being that the thread is about Ericsson, it was a matter of looking at it from Ericsson's perspective. From his perspective, Lebda is a bad partner for him. Lilja is a good partner.

If you want to look at it from Lebda's perspective, yes, Ericsson is also a bad partner for him, but he's now the 7th defenseman, so he doesn't really matter in that sense anymore. He doesn't have a partner at all.

As a pairing, Ericsson was worse than Lebda. But he has the higher upside, so the goal was to get him going, as he is more valuable than Lebda when he is going.

So, in sum, no, people shouldn't be saying that Ericsson was a terrible partner for Lebda, instead of the other way around, unless someone were to start a Lebda thread, campaigning for Lebda's return to the bottom-pairing

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03-30-2010, 01:24 PM
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Well, if it took Lilja to stabilize Ericsson, or it takes Lilja to keep Lebda honest, than logic would indicate that ol' Lillypads is the key, no? If it takes Lilja to get a guy going, it's kind of hard to be ultraoptimistic about his upside.

Cheli X Lebda = bad
Cheli X Lilja = bad
Llja X Lebda = good
Lebda X E = horrible
Lilja X E = acceptable after a 3 games to judge..... as statistically valid as say 6 or 7 games.

Only one of the above combinations was tried when the team had injuries to Kronwall, Lilja and several key forwards.

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03-30-2010, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Well, if it took Lilja to stabilize Ericsson, or it takes Lilja to keep Lebda honest, than logic would indicate that ol' Lillypads is the key, no? If it takes Lilja to get a guy going, it's kind of hard to be ultraoptimistic about his upside.
Not really. He's a rookie defenseman. Most rookie defensemen would do better with a stay-at-home defensive type as his partner, than Brett Lebda. It says nothing whatsoever about his upside, except that he's not Tyler Myers.


Quote:
Cheli X Lebda = bad
Cheli X Lilja = bad
Llja X Lebda = good
Lebda X E = horrible
Lilja X E = acceptable after a 3 games to judge..... as statistically valid as say 6 or 7 games.

Only one of the above combinations was tried when the team had injuries to Kronwall, Lilja and several key forwards.
Yeah. And? I'm not sure what point you are making. Is it a roundabout dig at Lilja? Or Ericsson?

Btw, Lilja + Ericsson > Lilja + Lebda, so your above evaluations are a little off

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03-30-2010, 01:36 PM
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Harold Snepsts
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Originally Posted by Athtar View Post
Shouldn't people be saying Ericsson was a terrible partner for Lebda instead of the other way around? I am fairly certain it was Ericsson that doomed that pairing, not Lebda.
Even when Ericsson wasn't playing awful, he and Lebda have made a dynamic duo of terrible turnovers. I'm not sure who's more to blame, or if it matters, but they bring out the worst in each other.

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03-30-2010, 01:53 PM
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I'm not sure who's more to blame, or if it matters, but they bring out the worst in each other.
this.

I like E and Lilja together, plus one or two good games seems to do wonders for a kids confidence, thier job is to be in the right position and at the very least chip the puck out off the boards. Lilja learned the hard way this works, E seems to be coming around.

Once the playoffs start Lebda could be very valuable.

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03-30-2010, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Not really. He's a rookie defenseman. Most rookie defensemen would do better with a stay-at-home defensive type as his partner, than Brett Lebda. It says nothing whatsoever about his upside, except that he's not Tyler Myers.




Yeah. And? I'm not sure what point you are making. Is it a roundabout dig at Lilja? Or Ericsson?

Btw, Lilja + Ericsson > Lilja + Lebda, so your above evaluations are a little off

Hardly. How many games are we talking about, jaster? Don't pull an HD on me an ignore statistical significance.

No idea how you decided the >>> above, cause poor Blaine hasn't been seen since the top got rolling again. Are people really saying it took getting Lillypads back (or maybe having a healthy Z, Homer, Kronwall, and Franzen,, which would be my guess).


PS A dig at E, and yes he's a rookie and good things should come, hopefully, but Lilly has been pretty decent since his return, other than a lack of physicality.

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03-30-2010, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold Snepsts View Post
Even when Ericsson wasn't playing awful, he and Lebda have made a dynamic duo of terrible turnovers. I'm not sure who's more to blame, or if it matters, but they bring out the worst in each other.

Kind of like the Cheli and Lilly combo. That one was pretty bad too.

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03-30-2010, 03:45 PM
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Hardly. How many games are we talking about, jaster? Don't pull an HD on me an ignore statistical significance.
Yeah! I mean, let's wait until 100 games from now to discuss this situation when we have enough data!

Patience, people. In October of 2013 we can talk for hours about how Lilja's return may have impacted Ericsson's play in March of 2010.

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No idea how you decided the >>> above, cause poor Blaine hasn't been seen since the top got rolling again. Are people really saying it took getting Lillypads back (or maybe having a healthy Z, Homer, Kronwall, and Franzen,, which would be my guess).
I think the guy you are paired with is more relevant than the forwards on the ice when it comes to determining performance shifts. Mostly because the forward line/defenseman pairing dynamic is way more fluid. Defensemen usually change at significantly different intervals, so there are rarely direct linkages between forward lines and defensman pairings... at least until you get to guys who are playing 23-25 minutes a night.

Defensive pairings are much more stable, though. So, when Babcock puts Lilja with E instead of Lebda, that's a pairing that stays together much more cohesively than trying to have an E/Lilja pairing out there with a particular forward line would.

As a correllary, would you describe Fil's recent production uptick as a function of getting a new line with Z and Bert, or as Ericsson getting back on the ice?

See the similarity there? Obviously Fil's play is aided by Zetterberg's, and vice versa. Since those guys are playing together, they most immediately impact the others performance. Same deal with defensive pairings. While obviously having better players on the ice everywhere is some degree of aid, the biggest and most immediate way to influence how a player is playing is to change who he is playing immediately next to.

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03-30-2010, 04:16 PM
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Sure we can't say for sure what this recent run really means, although I thought he has been pretty good, I also liked seeing him jumping up on the rush when he was coming out of the box the other day, I so wanted him to score there.

It was only recently that while looking up last years playoffs to check some stats I was bemoaning the fact that Ericsson went from the sort of guy who can score our lone goal in game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals, earning 3rd star and being +1 in a losing effort, to what he was for the better part of this season.

If only we had a spare Nick Lidstrom to throw on the third pairing with him, cause he worked well with Nick.

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03-30-2010, 04:24 PM
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jaster
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Hardly. How many games are we talking about, jaster? Don't pull an HD on me an ignore statistical significance.
How many games for what? To show that Lilja/Ericsson is better than Lilja/Lebda? I'm not drumming up statistics. When Ericsson is on his game, he's better than Lebda. We saw that last spring. Agree? And since Ericsson plays just as well with Lilja as Lebda does, it's the natural conclusion. Unless you think Lebda is a better partner for Lilja than Ericsson is, which may be the case, knowing that you are a Lilja detractor Would the argument be that Lebda's speed covers for Lilja's blunders by chance? If so, if I'm not off-base here, why do you think it is that the Wings are playing Ericsson over Lebda?


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No idea how you decided the >>> above, cause poor Blaine hasn't been seen since the top got rolling again. Are people really saying it took getting Lillypads back (or maybe having a healthy Z, Homer, Kronwall, and Franzen,, which would be my guess).
Both, but Lilja is the bigger factor, as HiHD points out.


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PS A dig at E
By pointing out that him and Lebda are a bad pair?

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04-01-2010, 08:56 AM
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He's played good hockey lately.

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