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Pyatt played on our second line during the last 8 games

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Old
03-22-2010, 09:43 PM
  #1
Kjell Dahlin
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Pyatt played on our second line during the last 8 games

I know that Martin has a serious man crush on speedy players: Latendresse, Chipchura, Laraque – out, Pouliot, Moore and Pyatt in.

It seems that speed became a panacea.

Speaking of 23 years old 5'11" 187 pnds, 1G-3A-4PTS, 23hits in 32 games played Pyatt... why him, on our second line, instead of Pacioretty, Desharnais or Trotter?

How crappy the line of...

Pyatty – Plekanec – A. Kostitsyn

... must play before we start looking for better options?

Luckily for us, Cammalleri will soon be back onboard. Nonetheless, am I the only one in here afraid of Martin’s man crush on Pyatt-like players?

Extract from Canadiens Top 20 prospects, Spring 2010:

"... 15. Tom Pyatt, C ..."

Reactions:

1. "heh, Pyatt is so low."

2. "Really?

Man... I know that plenty of posters in here love Pyatt but I just don’t see him as one of our top20 prospects. Pacioretty, Trotter, Conboy, Dumont, Avtsin, Desharnais, (...) > Pyatt imo.

Imo Pyatt does not have the creativity, offensive skillset or confidence to produce at a regular pace in the NHL. He is also undersized and he never hits. HF gave him a grade 6.5 => Third line forward but I see him as a good hustling bee – a speedy and relentless forechecking machine with zero physicality; someone that will limit his mistakes and provide you with cap friendly bottom line depth.

To stay with HF "Player Projection Rankings", I would give 23 years old Pyatt a 5.5A."

------------------


What do you think of Pyatt?


PS I am a huge fan of Pouliot and Moore

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Old
03-22-2010, 09:47 PM
  #2
YMCMBeaulieu
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Even in his prime Pyatt won't be a second liner.

Kind of disappointed we couldn't of gave Desharnais or even Trotter a shot for a couple of games on that line to see how they'd fair on a scoring line in the NHL.

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Old
03-22-2010, 09:51 PM
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I see alot of Dominic Moore in Pyatt it will be long for him to have a regular spot on a team without being some time an healhy scratch, because I see him being a 4th line defensive forward in the near future. When older, in the right fit I could see him gain an increased role and more production like Moore and being a solid third liner.

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03-22-2010, 09:51 PM
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Screw call ups, just put Sergei in there for more than one shift. Watch it do wonders.

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03-22-2010, 09:52 PM
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If Martin is ready to give Pyatt 8 games on the second line, why not put Sergei and Andrei together for like 5 games so they can build a chemistry? I know Martin tried them together 1 game, it wasn't successful but why not give them a chance to build something... Its not like Pyatt has been very productive on that line.

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03-22-2010, 10:19 PM
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honestly it's AK screwing up that line. Pyatt does get the puck free and plays enough body for Pleky to get it and put it on AK's stick if he were ever there to receive it. Gomez line - all three know what to do, that's why they are successful usually. Moore line - More or less the same thing. One man out on Pleky's line (i.e. AK doing god knows what) + Pyatt isn't supposed to save them, just provide exactly what he is = not a good line currently.

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03-22-2010, 10:25 PM
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Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
If Martin is ready to give Pyatt 8 games on the second line, why not put Sergei and Andrei together for like 5 games so they can build a chemistry? I know Martin tried them together 1 game, it wasn't successful but why not give them a chance to build something... Its not like Pyatt has been very productive on that line.
Sergei has been playing better lately (not tonight though!) and, as expected, Andrei needs time to find back his marks after missing two months of action.

That being mentioned, I agree with you that we can do better than Pyatt on line two and, to a certain degree, a line of S. Kostitsyn – Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn would probably be better. I wrote "to a certain degree" because Sergei, just like Lapierre, did step his game up a notch lately but he mostly sucked during most of the season and Andrei, after a two months absence, is still desperately trying to find back his marks. So regarding the effectiveness of Sergei + Andrei... I say "probably" but not "surely".

Long story short, I am not 100% sure that S. Kostitsyn – Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn was a better option... though it is very hard to do worse than Pyatt – Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn; so I will agree with you; "... Sergei and Andrei together for like 5 games so they can build a chemistry..." was a better idea than Pyatt on line 2 during 8 freakin' games.

That being mentioned, I still believe that Pacioretty, Desharnais or Trotter > Pyatt. I also agree with Erik Estrada (despite the fact that he did delete his post!): Darche, Lapierre (or Metropolit I would add) on line 2 (while waiting for Cammalleri) and White on 4th, was also an option. Maybe not the best option imo, but an option nonetheless... especially if you factor in how ineffective the line of Pyatt – Plekanec - A. Kostitsyn was.

Again: our Canadiens won (lately) but the line of Pyatt – Plekanec – A. Kostitsyn mostly played like a crappy NHL second line. Imo we can do better than Pyatt on line 2.

Even with Cammalleri out.

-----------------


Edit:

Habtastic,

I hear ya but I am willing to be patient with high octane Andrei Kostitsyn – especially after a two months absence - while I don’t except Pyatt to give us more than what he is currently giving us. Maybe I am underrating Pyatt (I like him as a relentless speedy tiny and ungritty buzzing/hustling bee with a cap friendly salary) btw; in that case, I would happily eat a crow!


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 03-22-2010 at 11:00 PM.
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Old
03-22-2010, 10:26 PM
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It's desperation time. Enough with building 4 solid lines. Either they build a top six that can score and a bottom six that can shut down, or it's game over. Sure you're going to score less against a line with Pyatt on it, but switch him with Sergei and for every goal against that can be attributed to SK's inferior (compared to Pyatt) defensive play, 5 goals for chances will be created. A team of Kostopoulouses doesn't work, nor does rewarding hard work. There's a difference between hardwork and results. Guys like Pyatt and White show the former and Sergei shows the latter. Who's going to put up numbers on the scoreboard? I'l let Martin decide but I know I have my preference.

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Old
03-22-2010, 10:35 PM
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I think people are missing the point. The reason Pyatt is on the second line is actually pretty simple, when you think about it. He is playing in Cammallerri's spot, so when Camm is able to come back, he retakes his spot and the other eleven forwards stay together and continue to develop chemistry with their line-mates.

Why not Desharnais, Trotter or Pacioretty? Probably because Pyatt is the better two-way player of the bunch and the closest to have earned a full-time gig with the Habs.

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Old
03-22-2010, 10:55 PM
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Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
I think people are missing the point. The reason Pyatt is on the second line is actually pretty simple, when you think about it. He is playing in Cammallerri's spot, so when Camm is able to come back, he retakes his spot and the other eleven forwards stay together and continue to develop chemistry with their line-mates.

Why not Desharnais, Trotter or Pacioretty? Probably because Pyatt is the better two-way player of the bunch and the closest to have earned a full-time gig with the Habs.
The line of Pyatt – Plekanec – A. Kostitsyn has been our worst line during the last 8 games. Imo, in terms of "NHL second line", it was possible to do better... even with Cammalleri out.

I understand that speedy 23 years old Pyatt limits his mistakes but, overall, he brings, at best, a neutral contribution to a NHL second line.

Just for the record: I don’t think that Pyatt is useless and I see more than a career AHLer in him - Maybe not in Habs land though: we already have plenty of undersized forwards with under average offensive skills/creativity who don’t dish out hits.

Pros: speed, defensive awareness, forchecking/hustling beast.


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 03-22-2010 at 11:02 PM.
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Old
03-22-2010, 10:58 PM
  #11
Darth Joker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
I think people are missing the point. The reason Pyatt is on the second line is actually pretty simple, when you think about it. He is playing in Cammallerri's spot, so when Camm is able to come back, he retakes his spot and the other eleven forwards stay together and continue to develop chemistry with their line-mates.
Yeah, this is pretty much it.

Also, if not for the six-game winning streak, I don't think that Martin would have put up with the struggles of the 2nd line. But, when the team is winning, the weakness of a particular line or two tends to seem less important, especially when one part of that line is simply holding a spot down until an injured player returns.

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Old
03-22-2010, 11:02 PM
  #12
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Sergei to 2nd line. Pyatt to the A, White on the 3rd/4th line = success.

Well... we need someone who hits, especially if Moen is out.

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03-22-2010, 11:52 PM
  #13
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I agree. Even when S Kost had what, 3 goals in 2 games,he barely got any time on the 2nd line. Not to mention in the past putting the Kost brothers together woke up A Kost from his long slumber.

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Old
03-23-2010, 12:49 AM
  #14
Miller Time
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yeah I'm not sure why he was so reluctant to roll with a S.kost/Pleks/A.kost line for a few games...

pyatt works hard, but clearly doesn't have the tools to be an effective top 6 player.

I'm guessing the hesitation has to do with wanting to make the 3rd line more offensively dangerous, spread out the scoring... that and Cammelleri is just about back, so Martin probably wanted to let S.Kost gel with the guys he'll end up playing with down the stretch/into the playoffs.

probably a smart move in the long run (for this season), just hope S.Kost is mature enough to keep playing hard and understands his role with the team.

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03-23-2010, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
The line of Pyatt – Plekanec – A. Kostitsyn has been our worst line during the last 8 games. Imo, in terms of "NHL second line", it was possible to do better... even with Cammalleri out.

I understand that speedy 23 years old Pyatt limits his mistakes but, overall, he brings, at best, a neutral contribution to a NHL second line.

Just for the record: I don’t think that Pyatt is useless and I see more than a career AHLer in him - Maybe not in Habs land though: we already have plenty of undersized forwards with under average offensive skills/creativity who don’t dish out hits.

Pros: speed, defensive awareness, forchecking/hustling beast.
The problem isn't Pyatt though. He's there to forecheck and add some more physical play to the line. AK is the problem. AK is there to score goals, and instead he is doing nothing.

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Old
03-23-2010, 07:42 AM
  #16
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During those 8 games we were 7-1-1 so obviously we're doing something right.

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03-23-2010, 07:49 AM
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During those 8 games we were 7-1-1 so obviously we're doing something right.
The only acceptable result is a perfect record.

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Old
03-23-2010, 07:49 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by A Zen Master View Post
During those 8 games we were 7-1-1 so obviously we're doing something right.
The second line has also been very unproductive. It's not because the team is winning that all lines and pairings are going full steam ahead.

We scored 2 goals in the last 2 games and the second line not being anywhere near dangerous has been one reason.

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03-23-2010, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by A Zen Master View Post
During those 8 games we were 7-1-1 so obviously we're doing something right.
So because we're 7-1-1 we dont need to make ajustments and fix problems specialy obvious ones such as Pleks line and ****ing Gorges on the PP?
so if Ferrari wins a race it doesnt fix the brakes on it's car for the next race?

I still dont understand why not use 4 forwards on the pp specialy when trailing 2-0 in the third. **** JM.

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Old
03-23-2010, 08:38 AM
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it's easy to put the blame on pyatt and andrei.. but what about pleks?? everyone seems to close on eye on him because he's our leading scorer. he's back to perimeter pleks since the olympics.

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03-23-2010, 08:41 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by HabFan1975 View Post
So because we're 7-1-1 we dont need to make ajustments and fix problems specialy obvious ones such as Pleks line and ****ing Gorges on the PP?
so if Ferrari wins a race it doesnt fix the brakes on it's car for the next race?
I think a better example is if Ferrari is winning races they won't install a new brake upgrade. I'm not sure I'd compare Pyatt to brakes that need fixing.

that said, the PP sucks and the Plekanec line isn't producing, but Pyatt is playing good hockey and the 7-1-1 record shows that. I know it'd be better if plekanec's line got 3 goals a night, and Pyatt isn't going to bring that, but it's kind of a weird time to post about how terrible he is when he's playing well and the team has gone 7-1-1.

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03-23-2010, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by A Zen Master View Post
I think a better example is if Ferrari is winning races they won't install a new brake upgrade. I'm not sure I'd compare Pyatt to brakes that need fixing.

that said, the PP sucks and the Plekanec line isn't producing, but Pyatt is playing good hockey and the 7-1-1 record shows that. I know it'd be better if plekanec's line got 3 goals a night, and Pyatt isn't going to bring that, but it's kind of a weird time to post about how terrible he is when he's playing well and the team has gone 7-1-1.

Wasnt just comparing Pyatt, I like the kid. It's a bunch of problems that needed to be addressed and we wait for 2 ****** performances before we do anything about it.
And stop talkin about the 7-1-1 (7-2-1 by the way) record in those 7 wins we beat a flat Boston and NY 3 times and we struggled to beat 2 even ****tier teams in Anaheim and Edmonton both in Ot. Do u guys realise that we won consecutive games in regulation only 1 time this year and that is a big 2 game streak. We're just lucky the eastern conference is struglling, in the West we are 6 pts out of the PO and we played more games.

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Old
03-23-2010, 09:41 AM
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Kjell Dahlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Zen Master View Post
During those 8 games we were 7-1-1 so obviously we're doing something right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
The only acceptable result is a perfect record.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Zen Master View Post
I think a better example is if Ferrari is winning races they won't install a new brake upgrade. I'm not sure I'd compare Pyatt to brakes that need fixing.

that said, the PP sucks and the Plekanec line isn't producing, but Pyatt is playing good hockey and the 7-1-1 record shows that. I know it'd be better if plekanec's line got 3 goals a night, and Pyatt isn't going to bring that, but it's kind of a weird time to post about how terrible he is when he's playing well and the team has gone 7-1-1.

"... but it's kind of a weird time to post about how terrible he is when he's playing well and the team has gone 7-1-1."

I understand your point of view (Habs’ record is great in the last 10-12 games, people like to pout all the times...) but imo the line of Pyatt – Plekanec – A. Kostitsyn has been our worst line during the last 8 games. I will go as far as labelling their input as "a crappy NHL second line"! Imo, in terms of "NHL second line", it was possible to do better... even with Cammalleri out.

We are still in the midst of a tight playoff race btw and we need a second line (as underlined by the last game against the Sens: we can’t always rely on our lines 3 and 4 to palliate the lack of offensive input from our second line) and a PP that is firing on all its cylinders.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
yeah I'm not sure why he was so reluctant to roll with a S.kost/Pleks/A.kost line for a few games...

pyatt works hard, but clearly doesn't have the tools to be an effective top 6 player.

I'm guessing the hesitation has to do with wanting to make the 3rd line more offensively dangerous, spread out the scoring... that and Cammelleri is just about back, so Martin probably wanted to let S.Kost gel with the guys he'll end up playing with down the stretch/into the playoffs.

probably a smart move in the long run (for this season), just hope S.Kost is mature enough to keep playing hard and understands his role with the team.
You are probably right and I agree with most of your post; especially "... I'm guessing the hesitation has to do with wanting to make the 3rd line more offensively dangerous, spread out the scoring... that and Cammelleri is just about back, so Martin probably wanted to let S.Kost gel with the guys he'll end up playing with down the stretch/into the playoffs...".

However, I still think that (Pacioretty/Desharnais/Trotter) – Plekanec – A. Kostitsyn was/is a better option than Pyatt - Plekanec – A. Kostitsyn. I understand that Pyatt limits his mistakes and provides a solid forechecking effort but he is not a second liner.


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 03-23-2010 at 09:47 AM.
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Old
03-23-2010, 09:45 AM
  #24
ScopeHockey
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Pyatt is definitely not a second-liner, but as another poster mentioned, he's there because Martin likes the chemistry in his bottom six and Pyatt is a low-risk plug-in on the Plekanec line.

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