Proposal: Kolzig for Aebischer and Boychuck

[bleedgreen]

Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN

Real bright >>>> 1) If you enjoy seeing you team constantly failing ( IE LOSING ) and the ownership and management fail to fix the problem why do you watch ?? If they do not care enough about the people that pay the freight why should the fans care or support them ???


2) It makes no difference what team I am a fan of ( but my team is the caps followed by the flyers ) I can look at something and make judgements based on what happens >>> You to are so biased that the truth could hit you between the running lights ( your eyes if you do not no the expression ) and still not see or understand it >>>>

3)You can believe it if you want , but Olie's contract was not the issue why neither team made the trade but what was expected in return by washington was >> To say he cost to much is an easy out to placate the fans for not steping up to the plate and getting a player the could win them the cup >>> From what I have read is that Muckler and Martin were blasted by the owner for not getting Olie and martin paid the biggest price by being fired >>

So in review if you are staisfied with the goalies each team has then be prepared for the same results as their window of oppertunity run out >>>> For me I would be just as happy if Olie stayed in washington and trained the younger goalies but wish that he could win the cuo just once before he retires >>

1) i watch because i love hockey and support my teams no matter what. why do you still watch the capitals after they completely disassembled the team? because you like the team - and understand what they are going through. how can you stand by the caps-but disrespect the avs? pl might not have made the best moves, but there is no doubt he does everything he can do to get the team the cup every year - to a fault in my opinion. how can you say he doesnt care about the fans or the product. thats ignorance. the fans in colorado have nothing to complain about after 8 years or so of a dominant team - cup or no cup these last 2 years.
2) your choice of teams DOES matter because you are obviously biased FOR the caps and AGAINST the avs. your opinions almost smack of hatred against the avs.

3) if you think the 12 million owed ollie wasnt a factor in him getting moved at the dealine.....wow. if kolzigs contract was the same as salo's - they would have done it in a heartbeat....even just to have him back up abby (which would have been the case). that said, i wouldnt have agreed with it because it would have sent the signal to abby that they didnt have faith in him - which would have been the wrong thing to do. the spin the caps put on about being picky about kolzig is a hoax, a cover up in attempt to save face in the situation of keeping the guy you desparately wanted to move. im glad he stayed there - because it is where he is wanted the most. he will be good in the role of developing the young guys. i dont think he is the no1 goalie of a cup winner anymore - if you think that you are in a very small minority.

[BIGTRAIN*]

Originally Posted by bleedgreen

1) i watch because i love hockey and support my teams no matter what. why do you still watch the capitals after they completely disassembled the team? because you like the team - and understand what they are going through. how can you stand by the caps-but disrespect the avs? pl might not have made the best moves, but there is no doubt he does everything he can do to get the team the cup every year - to a fault in my opinion. how can you say he doesnt care about the fans or the product. thats ignorance. the fans in colorado have nothing to complain about after 8 years or so of a dominant team - cup or no cup these last 2 years.
2) your choice of teams DOES matter because you are obviously biased FOR the caps and AGAINST the avs. your opinions almost smack of hatred against the avs.

3) if you think the 12 million owed ollie wasnt a factor in him getting moved at the dealine.....wow. if kolzigs contract was the same as salo's - they would have done it in a heartbeat....even just to have him back up abby (which would have been the case). that said, i wouldnt have agreed with it because it would have sent the signal to abby that they didnt have faith in him - which would have been the wrong thing to do. the spin the caps put on about being picky about kolzig is a hoax, a cover up in attempt to save face in the situation of keeping the guy you desparately wanted to move. im glad he stayed there - because it is where he is wanted the most. he will be good in the role of developing the young guys. i dont think he is the no1 goalie of a cup winner anymore - if you think that you are in a very small minority.

If I were biased and hated the avs never would want them to win >> Now there is a team I hate and it is the bruins hope the lose every game always >> But as for the avs and the senators like borh teams amd put money on them >>>> If you want a top flight goalie just like some of the avs forwards you must pay the accordingly >> 10 million for blake sakic and forsburg and that is not cheap >> In your hearts of hearts you know that abby is not the avs answer in goal and if you want your team to advance a change at that position is a must >> Go back througout the season ( if you tape game as I do ) and review his perforances and if you do not find him wasnting then you do not see the truth >> He is good enough to be a backup but not a # 1 goalie >> If you look what Olie did the last half of the year with a porius defense and getting 45-50 shots a game then you like others underestamate his ability >> Look for you self at his stats and they speek volumes and he is a # 1 goalie every team needs to get to that next level >>

I have invested over 30 years into the caps and like my redskins waited over 30 years for them to win >> How long would you be a fan of any team that never had a winning season for most of your time supporting them >> Not long like most fans >>> You want to know what loyalty : My base ball team the washington senators had one winning season since 1933 and for 1951 to 1972 I supported them even went to 40 home games a year >> And what did I get for my support my team was taken twice >> So do not talk to about loyality please you do not know the meaning of that word >>>

And why do I say that management does not have the fans at heart? Simple they chose to go with a goalie that has problem instead of trading for one thats been there and won >> MONEY IS NOT THE REASON AND IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT STORY OK BUT I PITY YOU BECAUSE THE PLAYED YOU LIKE A FIDDLE >>

See the difference between me and a lot of fans I can look at my team and admit they are bad and what the need to do to improve >> The management and the ownership of the caps have miss run that team from the very begining and never put together a team with a true chance to win >> I know that and I hate that but hope sprine eternal and I keep hopeing they get a mangement team in there that knows how to run a team >>

[Mizral]

Originally Posted by txpd

I think that is a ridiculous comment. I see far more benefits to the growth of the team by keeping an established, quality goaltender and locker room leader than by letting him go and go with the all rookie or bust blue print.

He provides a stable platform for the young defensemen to play in front of.
He is no more of risk of a bad attitude than would be Aebischer who know he was not the future goalie of the team and was just a stop gap on a terrible hockey team.

The Capitals can easily afford Kolzig and while $6m is a big number in the future salary cap reality, top goalies will continue to get their money. Ottawa is wishing they had spent the money.

Keeping Kolzig is not going to stunt the growth of Ouellet. Max is 22 years old. Kolzig was not the Caps #1 til he was 27. Turco not #1 til he was 25. What's the rush?

By keeping Kolzig, the Caps have a familiar face to sell tickets with and to run the locker room. With a free agent defenseman or two, a dominant Kolzig, like the one that played the second half of the season gives the Caps a chance to win night in and night out.

I just don't by into your premise that before the franchise can move forward they MUST first move Kolzig.

All this is valid, but not at $6.5 million dollars a year.

Better to toe-punt Kolzig and sign a guy like Sean Burke who is a fan favorite and a leader wherever he goes for $2.5 or so.

[bleedgreen]

Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN

I have invested over 30 years into the caps and like my redskins waited over 30 years for them to win >> How long would you be a fan of any team that never had a winning season for most of your time supporting them >> Not long like most fans >>> You want to know what loyalty : My base ball team the washington senators had one winning season since 1933 and for 1951 to 1972 I supported them even went to 40 home games a year >> And what did I get for my support my team was taken twice >> So do not talk to about loyality please you do not know the meaning of that word >>>

And why do I say that management does not have the fans at heart? Simple they chose to go with a goalie that has problem instead of trading for one thats been there and won >> MONEY IS NOT THE REASON AND IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT STORY OK BUT I PITY YOU BECAUSE THE PLAYED YOU LIKE A FIDDLE >>

See the difference between me and a lot of fans I can look at my team and admit they are bad and what the need to do to improve >> The management and the ownership of the caps have miss run that team from the very begining and never put together a team with a true chance to win >> I know that and I hate that but hope sprine eternal and I keep hopeing they get a mangement team in there that knows how to run a team >>

first of all, i just live in denver so im putting my 2 cents in on the avs. i am from hartford ct. the whalers. you dont know from loyalty to losers. i know the meaning of the word "loyalty" thank you very much. i loved my team so much i still watch them on satellite in carolina. i spent every extra penny i had going to the whalers games - and was there till the end. disagree with my opinions....fine - dont ever question my loyalty to the sport or my team.
i look at the canes and admit the management hasnt done its job - and hope every year they either improve or fire rutherford....fat chance. i dont blindly look at every thing lacroix has done and say he is a genuis, ive been here since 97 and i am positive the guy has done everything he could for that team. he didnt screw the fans by not getting a goalie who has won - when did kolzig win a cup? sure he came close, but that was a long time ago.....i watch plenty of caps games and while he still can play well - he isnt dominent anymore. do i think abby is the next superstar and will lead the avs to glory.....im not sure, but i dont think kolzig wouldve done any better. i also dont think there was a better goalie available through atrade anyways - from any team.

[andora]

Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN

Real bright >>>> The point of any game where a score is kept is winning or they would not keep score >> I enjoy hockey as well as football, the others are boring, but losing like Lombardi said is losers >> If you enjoy seeing you team constantly failing ( IE LOSING ) and the ownership and management fail to fix the problem why do you watch ?? If they do not care enough about the people that pay the freight why should the fans care or support them ???

because we are all but simpletons WATCHING.. we aren't playing the game for the loser team. sure, if you are a PLAYER why stay in a losing city if you're focussed on winning only... but we are FANS...every year is a new chapter yet to be written, that's why we WATCH, and they PLAY...

Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN

The issue ( and several of you continue not to see it ) is what gives you team the best chance of winning not just getting there >> Whether you want to believe it or not Olie was and is a great upgrade over what each team had and because of that both teams are no longer in the hunt >> Looh at all three gaolies careers and tell me that Olie with not as good a team did not do the better job >>>>

so what will you be saying if the finals ends up calgary/philly... kiprusoff vs esche, by your standards neither have a *career to look back upon... really, i mean esche beat brodeur? that's not right.. kipper beat joseph.. !! what ??? nabokov stoned a former two time cup holder in osgood.. what??.. esche beat belfour too..

Originally Posted by BIGTRAIN

You can believe it if you want , but Olie's contract was not the issue why neither team made the trade but what was expected in return by washington was >> To say he cost to much is an easy out to placate the fans for not steping up to the plate and getting a player the could win them the cup >>> From what I have read is that Muckler and Martin were blasted by the owner for not getting Olie and martin paid the biggest price by being fired >>

another question, if the contract ollie has was NOT A FACTOR, or issue.. then washington was simply asking too much for what other teams in the hunt for the cup felt he was worth. is washington's point of view the only one that matters when it comes to his value? or do the teams (who don't care about the contract) have a say in his value. really, if his contract meant nothing, why didn't ottawa or vancouver or whomever throw together a leetch type package and overpay ???.. why.. OH why...

[ErnestoGuevara]

Originally Posted by Tinordi24

AHAHAHAH! DUDE your obviously in more dire need of help than BigTrain. Figures that youre a pinko liberal communist. If you want to talk about stupidity just look in the mirror and you'll get a great look at what it is!



That just happens to be when players show their true colors and the dude totally choked!!

Kolzig is better player by far than any of those three goalies right at this point without cost involved. But when you factor in his age and salary hes not feasible on a lot of teams. But dont make yourself look like a donkey and suggest he'd be a backup to Lalime or Cloutier!!

Go to China and Cuba where big brother can take care of you...you obviously need it.
:lol

Ok you're the one who looks stupid..... All I was saying is that Ottawa ahd confidence in Lalime as their #1, same with Colorado with Aebishcer and Vancouver with Detroit. It doesn't matter who is better between Lalime and Kolzig, that's not the point, the point is that Jacques Martin thought Lalime could do the job and Kolzig only would've been there as insurrance. With Lalime playing well in the first 6 games, that means Kolzig would only have played 2 periods in the whole series. When you acquire a goaltender at the deadline it's never to make him your #1 (unless you #1 goalie at the moment goes the other way or in another trade ie the Tugnutt/Barasso trade), it's only for insurrance. Acquiring a goalie at the deadline and making him #1 is never good for the team chemistry and that's why Kolzig would only have been a backup in Ottawa, Vancouver or Coloardo. I'm not saying it would be the same thing if Kolzig was with the team at the start of the year, because IMO Kolzig is better, although not by much, than those 3 goalies. The coaches and the players ahd confidence in Lalime and I don't think a Kolzig trade would've been welcomed by anyone unless it was an insurrance trade.