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Old
03-23-2010, 09:15 PM
  #1
Gotta Catch Em Staal
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Best/Worst Carolina trades

Was just thinking about this today and decided to make a list. I think this may have been done before, but I guess it's worth revisiting. I didn't do a worst list because I didn't really want to think about those today, but maybe I'll have a shot at it later. I'd be curious to see some others weigh in on this with your lists.

My best list:

Honorable mention to Danny Richmond and a 4th for Anton Babchuk and a 4th for providing this board with a few years of heated debate, and to this year's Corvo for Pothier, Osala, and a 2nd, but we won't know for a while how that one pans out.

10) Tomas Malec and a 3rd for Martin Gerber

Had to think long and hard about this one. He was only here one season, and it was Cam who finished the job in the playoffs, but Martin Gerber went 38-14-6 leading the team to its best regular season in history, and had a critical shutout against the Sabres in the Conference Finals. Tomas Malec played 3 NHL games after we traded him (none for Anaheim), and with the pick the Ducks drafted Kyle Klubertanz who appeared in 5 AHL games before leaving for Sweden.

9) Josef Vasicek for Scott Walker

Vasicek never really found consistency in the NHL, including a couple years after this trade when we brought him back for a second stint. Walker's health begin to slide quickly, but his first season in Carolina he scored 21 goals and 51 points, and of course there's the double overtime winner against Boston that will be remembered for a long time as one of this team's most exciting moments.

8) Andrew Hutchinson and Joe Barnes for Matt Cullen (EDIT: We also gave them a 3rd that I forgot about, as pointed out in the first post below)

Ignoring the fact that Cullen was allowed to walk initially and taking this trade for what it is, it was a major win for the Canes. Hutchinson has since played in 40 NHL games, none for the Rangers, and Joe Barnes has fallen out of hockey, playing 17 ECHL games and 1 AHL game since the deal. Cullen scored 132 points in 188 games in his second stint with us before we traded him a few weeks ago.

7) Kevyn Adams for Dennis Seidenberg

The first of two Kevyn Adams appearances on the list. Adams was shown the door at the end of his career and after a locker room fallout, and in return we got a player who blossomed into a legitimate top 4 defenseman and played a major role in the run to the 09 Conference Finals. Then we let him walk...

6) Danny Markov for Justin Williams

Markov wasn't exactly a throw away player, but memories of his short Raleigh tenure were quickly erased by Williams. Two 30+ goal seasons, an All-Star appearance, and the most famous goal in the history of the franchise.

5) Niklas Nordgren, Krys Kolanos, and a 2nd for Mark Recchi.

Nordgren appeared in 15 games for Pittsburgh (0 points) before leaving for Switzerland, and Kolanos bounced around seemingly every AHL team in existance before picking up 6 points in 21 games for the Minnesota Wild last year. The draft pick (a 2007 one) eventually ended up in the hands of Philadelphia who picked Kevin Marshall, a defenseman who made his pro debut this season and has appeared in 66 games for the Phantoms. Recchi of course played in every playoff game for Carolina scoring 7 goals and 9 assists en route to the Cup.

4) Wade Brookbank, Josef Melichar, and a 4th for Jussi Jokinen

It's still relatively early in Jussi Jokinen's Carolina career, but Brookbank and Melichar were salary dumps that cleared waivers and added negative value to any trade. Tampa traded the draft pick to Toronto, where it was then forfeited for violating the CBA in Jonas Frogen's contract negotiation. Jokinen of course put up a modest 11 points in 25 regular season games before becoming a playoff legend with 7 goals and 4 assists, including a number of game winners. With 27 goals and 29 assists this season, he has become an important part of our offense.

3) Erik Cole for Joni Pitkanen

A player with rapidly decreasing value was pawned off before anyone got wise to it for one of the more promising young defensemen in the league. Pitkanen may very well be the first legitimate #1 defenseman the team has had since relocating, and his 45 points in 64 games so far this season not only gives him the highest scoring season by a defenseman since coming here, but also puts him near the top of the NHL in scoring from the back end.

2) Sandis Ozolinsh and Byron Ritchie for Bret Hedican, Tomas Malec, and Kevyn Adams

Ozolinsh scored 44 points his first season in Raleigh, providing the powerplay QB the team desperately needed, but he was very poor in his own end, and it looked like his 5 year $25 million deal could handicap the team for the future. Not only did they get Ozo off the books with over 3 years of the deal remaining, but they picked up two players in Adams and Hedican who would play a combined 669 games for the franchise, with both winning the Stanley Cup in 2006. Ritchie bounced around to a few more NHL teams as a 4th liner, while Malec was later involved in the previously mentioned Gerber trade.

1) Keith Primeau and a 5th for Rod Brind'Amour, Jean-Marc Pelletier, and a 2nd

After two very productive seasons in Greensboro, Primeau held out for nearly the entire 99-00 season, prompting this trade. In 00-01 he had the best year of his career, scoring 73 points for the Flyers. Those numbers dropped off the next two seasons, and in 2005 he had a career ending concussion. Philadelphia traded their pick to the Islanders, and Carolina traded theirs to Colorado, while Jean-Marc Pelletier never made in the NHL. The key to the trade of course was Rod Brind'Amour, who has appeared in 686 regular season and 72 playoff games for Carolina, scoring 470 and 38 points respectively. He captained the team for over 4 seasons, won the Selke twice, and obviously most importantly, raised the Stanley Cup.

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Last edited by Gotta Catch Em Staal: 03-23-2010 at 09:30 PM.
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Old
03-23-2010, 09:26 PM
  #2
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The Rangers also got a third round pick in the Cullen trade, which they used to pick Grachev. For that reason I think the trade for elite #1 defenseman Babchuk should be on the list instead.

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03-23-2010, 09:29 PM
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Damn I thought that trade looked too good to be true looking back on it.

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03-23-2010, 10:13 PM
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DaveG
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Worst:

3: Marek Malik and Darren Langdon for Harold Druken and Jan Hlavac

The Hurricanes, lacking secondary scoring in the 2002-03 season, moved two guys that on paper might not seem like huge losses. But it proved to be a poorly thought out move in the end. Hlavac's lone highlight as a Cane is his hat trick against Detroit, and Druken was one "n" in the middle of his name short of why he never made the league. In the meantime Malik would prove to be a solid defenseman for Vancouver and lead the league in +/-, and Langdon's locker room presence was sorely missed in Carolina as the team started to spiral towards mediocrity and would finish the season with the #2 overall pick.

2: Patrick Eaves, 4th round pick 2010 for Aaron Ward

A case of a player that was past his "best by" date still bringing in a decent return. Ward led the defense in +/- this season... in the minus end of the ledger. His play alone cost the Canes more then a couple games and in the end he played a big factor in the team missing the playoffs. Oddly enough Eaves, who was on the outs in Carolina the prior season, would prove to be the most valuable piece in this deal... for the Red Wings. He was released almost immediately by the Bruins making this one of the few trades that could be classified as "lose/lose" to me. But the biggest knock on this trade to me was that it prettymuch spelled the end for Seidenberg in a Canes uniform as there was still a significant chance he could have been brought back in as a UFA.

1: Sami Kapanen and Ryan Bast for Pavel Brendl and Bruno St. Jacques

In a trade that spelled the end of the era that was the Hurricanes team that made it to the Stanley Cup Finals in 2002, Kapanen was sent packing to Philly for highly touted prospect Brendl. Instead of a player that would be a part of their core for a long time, the Canes received a prospect that was more interested in a local donut chain and thinking he was automatically worthy of a roster spot via his draft position then he was at working to make the team. The end result was a guy that never really got or earned much of a shot with the team and was outskated by WHL pylon Matej Trojovsky in training camp, while Kapanen would go on to play a leadership role with the Flyers in a few playoff runs.


Last edited by DaveG: 03-23-2010 at 10:23 PM.
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Old
03-23-2010, 10:40 PM
  #5
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Honorable mention to what amounted to be Niclas Wallin for Blake Robson, Mark McRae and Eric Bowen. Rutherford traded for the rights to a piece of the 02' and 06' defense. Plus, Wallin scored a couple of memorable OT goals along the way. None of the three draft pics acquired by Atlanta made the NHL.

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03-23-2010, 10:56 PM
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No mention of Anson Carter? Granted, we only gave up a 3rd or something, but that didn't end too well.

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03-23-2010, 11:09 PM
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DaveG
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No mention of Anson Carter? Granted, we only gave up a 3rd or something, but that didn't end too well.
That one would definitely go into my "dishonorable mention" category. And had I expanded this to top 5 it would have been right in there at #4. Worst use of a 5th round pick ever.

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03-23-2010, 11:33 PM
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Good list, I'd probably have the same in a different order (Pitkanen lower, Gerber higher). I'll add a few honorable mentions:

Bob Boughner to Colorado for a 04 2nd
Glen Wesley to Toronto for a 04 2nd
Weight for spare parts + a 1st (Corrente?)

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03-24-2010, 04:52 AM
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The Aaron Ward to Carolina from Detroit deal will always be remembered fondly by me. Love him or more recently, hate him, he scored the first goal in Game 7 that sent the Caniacs into a frenzy from which the Oilers never recovered. He was a fantastic shut down guy in his prime.

Mike Commodore from Calgary is a glaring omission. Despite not getting a lot of "length" out of him in terms of games played, he was critical while he was here.

If we're going historical, the worst trade of all time has to be the Francis trade. Giving up Giguere and Cassels for an injured Roberts and Trevor Kidd.... if I may be so bold as to claim his time here was massively overrated..... was also a low point.

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03-24-2010, 06:47 AM
  #10
Joe McGrath
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The Aaron Ward to Carolina from Detroit deal will always be remembered fondly by me. Love him or more recently, hate him, he scored the first goal in Game 7 that sent the Caniacs into a frenzy from which the Oilers never recovered. He was a fantastic shut down guy in his prime.

Mike Commodore from Calgary is a glaring omission. Despite not getting a lot of "length" out of him in terms of games played, he was critical while he was here.

If we're going historical, the worst trade of all time has to be the Francis trade. Giving up Giguere and Cassels for an injured Roberts and Trevor Kidd.... if I may be so bold as to claim his time here was massively overrated..... was also a low point.
I don't think there is any real debate about that, however there were a couple of other good ones. For examle trading Mark Howe and a 3rd for Ken Linseman(flipped to Edmonton immediately for Risto Stiltanen), Greg Adams, a 1st and a 3rd (who played a combined 13 games for the Whalers). Brendan Shanahan for Chris Pronger also worked out pretty poorly since the Blues got a future Hart Trophy winner and the Whalers got a guy who demanded to be traded the next season.

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03-24-2010, 07:06 AM
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Vagrant
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Yeah, the reason that I didn't put the Pronger deal is because it works out asset for asset to the Brind'Amour deal. We just shuffled a few guys.

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03-24-2010, 08:19 AM
  #12
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Are we sticking to the Raleigh years here? That's what the "Carolina" in the subject had me thinking, anyway...

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03-24-2010, 09:11 AM
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I would add this to the best trades for Carolina.

Jan 2003, 1998-Martin Gelinas acquired from the Vancouver Canucks with Kirk McLean for Sean Burke, Enrico Ciccone and Geoff Sanderson.

Martin Gelinas had a nice stint with the Canes (348 regular season games/165 points, 35 playoff games/11 points) and was a consummate professional. He used to come into the store I worked at back then and was such a nice and funny guy. I was already a hockey fan, but I had a coworker there who is now a diehard Canes fan (along with her husband) mainly because of him and how approachable he was.
Kirk McLean provided a reasonable backup for a brief period. Sean Burke had worn out his welcome in Carolina after allegations of domestic abuse. Geoff Sanderson went on to have a so-so career elsewhere, but certainly didn't have the kind of hardworking impact that Gelinas did. Finally, though I used to love to watch Ciccone throw fists when he played for Tampa back in the mid 90's, his stay with the Canes was short and uneventful.

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03-24-2010, 12:20 PM
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geoff sanderson is still the best lw this team ever had. he was only here for a few months, and was never used the way he had been here again.

that was hands down the worst trade imo. that was our no 1 goalie and our all star lw for two spare parts, one of which scored one big goal after missing the most open net in team history. i get no one follows prior to then but sanderson and burke were the heart and soul of this team, and they were in their primes still. they obviously had trouble adjusting, but i think they wouldve came around.

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03-24-2010, 12:44 PM
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I agree actually. I'm not sure that I would put that one on my worst list or not, but there was no way I was putting it on the best. When the team moved to Raleigh, the player I was most excited about was Sanderson. I was pretty upset when that trade went down after only such a short time, but I do admit I was a Gelinas fan.

I did have the Commodore and Ward from Detroit deals on my top 15 list, but they didn't make the cut when I went down to 10.

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03-24-2010, 12:50 PM
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As far as the Scott Walker deal goes, my main criteria for evaluation of a deal like that would be how much that player contributed towards winning. When I compare Aaron Ward and what he did for Carolina in '02 and '06, it shines much brighter than Scott Walker's contributions. I appreciate everything Scott did here, but in terms of actually winning anything notable it never happened here for him.

To me, Walker falls under the umbrella of the "beloved plug", rather than an actual big time contributor. I think removed from sentimentality, it's pretty reasonable to say that Ward contributed more to our team success than Walker.

Additionally, I would have the Kevin Weekes for Shane Willis trade somewhere around the periphery of the list if not on it.

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03-24-2010, 12:56 PM
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its a shame you guys werent around for sanderson/burke in their primes. sanderson was the fastest winger in hockey, with one of the hardest shots - he was as exciting a player as we've ever had. he is still the best home grown winger we've had since then, and aside from francis and staal he is the best forward in our modern era.

no offense to cam, but sean was our best goalie ever. ive never had the confidence level in cam that i had in sean. from day one he was the daddy mac. we were a better team the first day he played, ive never seen a bigger difference in a team from one player. its like the difference in the hawks when they got kane and toews.

thats no slight on cam, its just he hasnt had the the consistent body of work yet. when he is on he one of the best in the league, when he isnt he is average. he seems to be getting there, but if it was one game at their best id take sean.

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03-24-2010, 12:57 PM
  #18
karparules
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geoff sanderson is still the best lw this team ever had. he was only here for a few months, and was never used the way he had been here again.

that was hands down the worst trade imo. that was our no 1 goalie and our all star lw for two spare parts, one of which scored one big goal after missing the most open net in team history. i get no one follows prior to then but sanderson and burke were the heart and soul of this team, and they were in their primes still. they obviously had trouble adjusting, but i think they wouldve came around.
I'm just basing this on the Carolina Hurricanes era, not going back to the Whalers. Sure, Sean Burke was a star with the Whalers, but once they moved to NC, he was less than stellar. The reports of his off-ice troubles were damaging to the team's efforts with the new fanbase and I believe he was coming up for free agency the following summer. So, I don't think you can regard this in any way as a bad trade. With Sanderson, while he still had a few good seasons left in him, was hardly a model of consistency.
Finally, to call Martin Gelinas a spare part is ridiculous. This guy was classy and hardworking and a big part of creating the hardworking identity for this team.

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03-24-2010, 01:09 PM
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gelinas had been picked up off of waivers just a year or two before this. thats a spare part by any name. this team was a collection of spare parts, and has been much of jr's era - so its not really meant as an insult to the player. how you can judge any player like burke when they played less than half a season for you seems ridiculous. 5 years of amazing work dismissed so easily? if it had been TO, there would be posters bringing up this trade every day even now. much like the roy trade never going down if the nords dont leave quebec, this trade could never have happened in hartford. jr was cutting off the head of the old team just for the sake of doing it, and banishing the players as geographically far away from him as possible. the nhl reaction to this trade was a collective facepalm, harsher than the jj trade imo.

i dont buy domestic charges at all, as it is law that the guy goes to jail in any domestic incident regardless of what really happened or who called - without proof of the real story it holds no ground. any character assassination to tear down burke is embarrassing as the guy was a staple to local charities in hartford. all the players had their play suffer from the move, it was an ungly move. i went to a greensboro game two months before this trade and it was a joke. empty arena, announcing icing and off sides, people looking at me like i had lobsters crawling out of my ears when i cheered for dineen drawing a call. all this on a halloween night against the sabres! of course the players had issues with all this, they were friggin adored in hartford - especially those two. sandy had lost his center in cassells as well, they were perfect compliments and knew no success without the other.

i know youre basing this off the canes days, but it happened in the canes days. you never had any idea what you had in these two - they were your best two players. the only equivalents to these two would be ward and staal - though sandy played wing so compare him to ruutu if ruutu could score 40 and never get hurt - and you had no better forward.


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03-24-2010, 01:25 PM
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i dont buy domestic charges at all, as it is law that the guy goes to jail in any domestic incident regardless of what really happened or who called - without proof of the real story it holds no ground. any character assassination to tear down burke is embarrassing as the guy was a staple to local charities in hartford.
It took me literally 90 seconds to find this:

"As you probably know, Burke was arrested for the assault that left his wife with bruises on her neck and face."

But yeah, I guess it's possible that JR asked his wife to punch herself in the face just so he could have a reason to trade him. But then there's that pesky issue of him pleading guilty to the charge...

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03-24-2010, 01:47 PM
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still doesnt mean we had any idea what happened between him and his wife. we have no idea if he had any injuries at all, what caused the fight - basically none of the details aside from she had a bruises. if you take that as your only data to what happened your likely missing much of the story. judging the guy from this incident when we dont know any of the details is a ridiculous reason to hang the guys character out. is that quote from jr? it wasnt mentioned during the trade was it?

looked up some info, after his conviction all he had was a $200 fine and probation with a class. there are a lot of questions about what really happened there. that isnt a stiff penalty. i stand by my assertion you cant throw this guy under the bus for this.

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03-24-2010, 01:52 PM
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Best deal: Hartford Whalers ---> Carolina

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03-24-2010, 01:53 PM
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http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jan/21/sports/sp-10549

looks like there was charges against her as well, but they were dropped. still want to make some generalized comments? only took 30 seconds to find.


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03-24-2010, 02:02 PM
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karparules
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gelinas had been picked up off of waivers just a year or two before this. thats a spare part by any name. this team was a collection of spare parts, and has been much of jr's era - so its not really meant as an insult to the player. how you can judge any player like burke when they played less than half a season for you seems ridiculous. 5 years of amazing work dismissed so easily? if it had been TO, there would be posters bringing up this trade every day even now. much like the roy trade never going down if the nords dont leave quebec, this trade could never have happened in hartford. jr was cutting off the head of the old team just for the sake of doing it, and banishing the players as geographically far away from him as possible. the nhl reaction to this trade was a collective facepalm, harsher than the jj trade imo.

i dont buy domestic charges at all, as it is law that the guy goes to jail in any domestic incident regardless of what really happened or who called - without proof of the real story it holds no ground. any character assassination to tear down burke is embarrassing as the guy was a staple to local charities in hartford. all the players had their play suffer from the move, it was an ugly move. i went to a greensboro game two months before this trade and it was a joke. empty arena, announcing icing and off sides, people looking at me like i had lobsters crawling out of my ears when i cheered for dineen drawing a call. all this on a halloween night against the sabres! of course the players had issues with all this, they were friggin adored in hartford - especially those two. sandy had lost his center in cassells as well, they were perfect compliments and knew no success without the other.

i know youre basing this off the canes days, but it happened in the canes days. you never had any idea what you had in these two - they were your best two players. the only equivalents to these two would be ward and staal - though sandy played wing so compare him to ruutu if ruutu could score 40 and never get hurt - and you had no better forward.
Not sure why this became a big argument. I never said anything disparaging about either Goeff or Sean's time in Hartford. I actually knew all about them and had seen them play with the Whalers. Both had great NHL careers. So, by your definition, any player that has been on waivers is a spare part? I guess Jussi Jokinen is a spare part. If I'm not mistaken, after leaving Carolina, Sanderson was left unprotected and claimed in the expansion draft by Columbus. That's just as much a dark point in a player's career as being placed on waivers. And I'm not saying that this makes him a bad player.
I was one of those fans in Greensboro and though I don't have a link to back it up, I remember hearing/reading that Geoff was really unhappy with the move. I'm not saying I blame him, as I know that the 2 years in Greensboro were difficult for everyone. It isn't ridiculous for management to want to move guys who aren't happy with their new team.
As far as Sean Burke is concerned, I have no problem with moving him at all, regardless of his on-ice performance. Nobody's perfect, but I don't have any respect for men that hit their wives and I don't put sports stars on enough of a pedestal to overlook this.
Finally, as always, I have to take issue with your description of the Greensboro days. We all know that they were far from ideal. I fail to see why it is a "joke" that icing/offsides were announced. Breaking news!!!-many people from the area were unfamiliar with hockey!!! By announcing these calls, they allow interested fans to ask the question, "hey, what is icing?"
Of course, attendance was low at the Canes games in Greensboro, so that makes the people there stupid. However, if you bothered to dig a little deeper, you might find out that many native Greensboronians were determined to not support the Hurricanes. As with many other parts of the country, there is somewhat of a rivalry between Greensboro and Raleigh (not to mention Raleigh and Charlotte). Greensboro had a long-standing tradition of minor league hockey that was well supported. The Canes stop in Greensboro drove the Monarchs from their arena and they folded. So, the locals saw that their team was replaced by a team that wasn't really theirs and would just be moving to Raleigh as soon as their real home was built. I hardly find it that unreasonable that many from Greensboro decided to stay away and not get emotionally invested. Of course, there are some fantastic diehard fans from the Greensboro area, but you can't really pretend that everything happens in a vacuum.

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03-24-2010, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/jan/21/sports/sp-10549

looks like there was charges against her as well, but they were dropped. still want to make some generalized comments? only took 30 seconds to find.
Give me a break. I'm sure she really whipped his butt.

karparules is offline   Reply With Quote
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