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Looking Forward: Goaltending Situation

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Old
03-26-2010, 03:50 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
Yeah, I'd be interested in Vokoun. The problem is that he comes with a pretty sizable contract - ($5.7M cap hit for 2 more years and would likely cost quite a bit in players/picks/prospects going to Florida to get him. It sounds like he's available as I've heard FLA is simply looking to blow up the team and start over while I've also heard rumors that Vokoun has gotten frustrated with the inept management of the Panthers and wants out. Regardless, it sounds like he's available if a team out there is willing to pay. I'm not sure he would be the best cost/benefit option for the Blues (perhaps someone like Harding or Schneider can be had for both less money and less assets) but IMO he is the real deal and would instantly give the Blues top 10 goaltending in the league. I'm also hearing Chicago is VERY big on him since their biggest hole is goaltending with the adequate but nothing more tandem of Huet/Niemi in net...although I really like Niemi's future. I think he's already taken over Huet as the #1 in Chicago. If he or Huet (whoever ends up earning the bulk of the starts in the playoffs) falters, look for Chicago to go hard after Vokoun. Since they're so close to the Cap as it is, they would obviously have to trade fairly high priced players (guys like Sharp, Campbell, etc.) to Florida to make the deal work. If the price is right though, then yes, I think the Blues should at least check into Vokoun. No harm in kicking the tires and seeing what it would take to get him.
Vokoun actually IS a top 5 goaltender in the league, unlike any of the other guys we've been discussing. It'd be intersting to see what kind of impact he'd actually make when coming here. I don't think his contract is really out of line with how strong a player he is, but it'd be tough for us to improve our forwards if we pick him up without moving away salary in the form of a Brewer or Jackman. If it comes down to it I'd rather see the Blues sign Kovalchuk and re-sign Mason than make a trade for Vokoun and settle for a lesser forward, especially considering the age of Vokoun and Kovalchuk.

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03-26-2010, 09:14 PM
  #27
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I'd definitely prefer the sure thing in Vokoun (who has one year left at $6.3M - salary; $5.7M - cap hit) over an unproven #1. Goaltending wouldn't be a problem for 4 or 5 years once you extend him.

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03-26-2010, 10:05 PM
  #28
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I'd definitely prefer the sure thing in Vokoun (who has one year left at $6.3M - salary; $5.7M - cap hit) over an unproven #1. Goaltending wouldn't be a problem for 4 or 5 years once you extend him.
Man it would be so weird to have goaltending as a position of strength now and in the future for a change. There wouldn't be so much hassle over trying to get our prospects to turn the page or hungering for another franchise's up and comers. Bizzaro land type stuff right there for this organization.

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03-27-2010, 11:11 AM
  #29
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Preds fan here, obviously.. replying to several posts plus asking a question.

First, given the number of teams who appear to ned a goalie, i would be shocked if there isnt some decent market for Mason so I doubt you'd be able to get him to sign a one year deal as a fallback option if you dont get one of the young goalies. he's going to be looking to maximize his cash and years as this is likely his last big contract.

Seecond, Vokoun has a NTC, so there is no guarantee he'd waive it, and he is older, has been prone to periods of inconsistency that you dont want if you are paying almost 6 million a year. Personally I am glad the Preds arent handcuffed by his huge contract at this time

My question is, do you think Mason is happy there? if the Blues decided to stay with him would he want to stay? his comments after the thrid period meltdown to the Preds a week ago made it sound like he wasnt terribly happy there... but I know thats just one instance..

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03-27-2010, 12:05 PM
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I agree with PredsV82.

When I saw the talk about Vokoun I almost responded with a "No way dude."

He's good, for sure, but is a typical goaltender; inconsistent.

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03-27-2010, 12:56 PM
  #31
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I agree with PredsV82.

When I saw the talk about Vokoun I almost responded with a "No way dude."

He's good, for sure, but is a typical goaltender; inconsistent.
So...you don't want any goalie then...because they're inconsistent.

Vokoun is 2nd in save percentage, 2nd in shutouts, and 2nd in shots against. The last word I'd use to describe him is inconsistent. He's no doubt one of the league's 5 best, and is the only one in that group that is available.

I don't think the Blues have the intestinal fortitude to make the trade to acquire him...but you're lying to yourself if you think he's not worth his contract.

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03-27-2010, 01:06 PM
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Would you trade St. Louis' 1st in 2010 for Montreal's RFA Price?

This to me, is a complete win-win trade. St. Louis is plenty stacked with good, young talent and forward and defense and a huge hole in goal. Price was a top-5ish goalie 2 seasons ago. He was a high pick and shown flashes of being outstanding. He's not Andrew Raycroft v2.0.

IMO, The Blues don't need more picks/prospects. They need a talented young goalie and I think Price is worth a 1st and a smarter move then something like Harding for a 2nd.

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03-27-2010, 01:08 PM
  #33
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Would you trade St. Louis' 1st in 2010 for Montreal's RFA Price?

This to me, is a complete win-win trade. St. Louis is plenty stacked with good, young talent and forward and defense and a huge hole in goal. Price was a top-5ish goalie 2 seasons ago. He was a high pick and shown flashes of being outstanding. He's not Andrew Raycroft v2.0.

IMO, The Blues don't need more picks/prospects. They need a talented young goalie and I think Price is worth a 1st and a smarter move then something like Harding for a 2nd.
I could see it becoming an option on Draft Day if the Blues see all their top choices off the board when we get near our pick.

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03-27-2010, 01:51 PM
  #34
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I'd definitley do it. Price is a proven number one and could be our guy for 10 years. A first round prospect between 10-15th overall isn't even a guarentee to make the NHL.

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03-27-2010, 02:01 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Preds fan here, obviously.. replying to several posts plus asking a question.

First, given the number of teams who appear to ned a goalie, i would be shocked if there isnt some decent market for Mason so I doubt you'd be able to get him to sign a one year deal as a fallback option if you dont get one of the young goalies. he's going to be looking to maximize his cash and years as this is likely his last big contract.

Seecond, Vokoun has a NTC, so there is no guarantee he'd waive it, and he is older, has been prone to periods of inconsistency that you dont want if you are paying almost 6 million a year. Personally I am glad the Preds arent handcuffed by his huge contract at this time

My question is, do you think Mason is happy there? if the Blues decided to stay with him would he want to stay? his comments after the thrid period meltdown to the Preds a week ago made it sound like he wasnt terribly happy there... but I know thats just one instance..
I think Mason is plenty happy. He seems to like it just fine here. He made those comments the other day but IMO, he was spot on. He's an average goalie IMO but he at least gives it his all which can't be said for some of his teammates. He showed frustration but I wouldn't read too much into it.

Overall, I would like to see the Blues pursue other goaltending options (no harm in kicking tires) but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they end up re-signing Mason...and PredsV82 is right, it'll take more than a one year deal to get him signed.

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03-27-2010, 02:02 PM
  #36
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Would you trade St. Louis' 1st in 2010 for Montreal's RFA Price?

This to me, is a complete win-win trade. St. Louis is plenty stacked with good, young talent and forward and defense and a huge hole in goal. Price was a top-5ish goalie 2 seasons ago. He was a high pick and shown flashes of being outstanding. He's not Andrew Raycroft v2.0.

IMO, The Blues don't need more picks/prospects. They need a talented young goalie and I think Price is worth a 1st and a smarter move then something like Harding for a 2nd.
I'd definitely make that trade. I don't see any way MTL would though. Price's trade value has likely gone down a little bit but he's still likely worth more than a mid 1st round pick.

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03-27-2010, 02:16 PM
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1st Rounder and Junland for Price

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03-27-2010, 02:45 PM
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So...you don't want any goalie then...because they're inconsistent.

Vokoun is 2nd in save percentage, 2nd in shutouts, and 2nd in shots against. The last word I'd use to describe him is inconsistent. He's no doubt one of the league's 5 best, and is the only one in that group that is available.

I don't think the Blues have the intestinal fortitude to make the trade to acquire him...but you're lying to yourself if you think he's not worth his contract.
Oh my God!! I am lying to myself about ice hockey. Because this matters so much in the scheme of things I promise to not lie to myself about ice hockey ever again.

Really Stealth JD, aren't you being a little dramatic. Aren't the same person who wants The Blues to tank for a higher pick? It's hard to take you seriously.

Vokoun is good and if he comes and does well, then so be it. Don't care dude because after all this is just ice hockey.

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03-27-2010, 05:59 PM
  #39
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Oh my God!! I am lying to myself about ice hockey. Because this matters so much in the scheme of things I promise to not lie to myself about ice hockey ever again.

Really Stealth JD, aren't you being a little dramatic. Aren't the same person who wants The Blues to tank for a higher pick? It's hard to take you seriously.

Vokoun is good and if he comes and does well, then so be it. Don't care dude because after all this is just ice hockey.
The fact that this thread even exists shows what an improvement Vokoun would be. We need better players...and the Blues aren't exactly luring premiere talent here via free agency (Kariya, McKee, Sydor, Conklin - colour me unimpressed) nor are they trading for them. If you've got the chance to land one of the 3 or 4 best goalies...why wouldn't you? Because he's too expensive? Too inconsistent?

And regarding the "tanking" idea...Yeah, how silly is it of me to think that the Blues would have been better off with Duchene instead of Rundblad? ...or Stamkos instead of Pietrangelo? ...afterall, making the playoffs last year really led to this young squad maturing by leaps and bounds. Who doesn't love the philosophy of drafting mid-round talent and hoping for the best? Maybe in 3 to 4 years these guys will mature and lead us somewhere other than to the golf courses. And maybe that 21 year old up and coming goalie that half of this board longs for will not self-distruct. Let's hope that management sits back and hopes for the best, right? Screw being proactive and upgrading the roster; let's cross our fingers and hope for the best.

Frankly, it's a little absurd if you think Vokoun is too inconsistent...but apparently it's hard to break the mindset of settling for mediocrity, and assuming that simply making the playoffs is a success. The goal should be winning the Cup. Staying down for a couple of years (ala Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago) would have helped much more in the long-run. And acquiring a proven top-5 goalie would help that cause more than trading for the "goalie-of-the-future" who may or may not do his best Hannu Toivonen impersonation.

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03-27-2010, 06:14 PM
  #40
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It'd be nice to have a proven guy like Vokoun, goaltending has been our number one issue since Turek.

We'd need to give up a lot I'd assume though..

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03-27-2010, 06:21 PM
  #41
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The fact that [url=http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=755598]

And regarding the "tanking" idea...Yeah, how silly is it of me to think that the Blues would have been better off with Duchene instead of Rundblad? ...or Stamkos instead of Pietrangelo? ...afterall, making the playoffs last year really led to this young squad maturing by leaps and bounds. Who doesn't love the philosophy of drafting mid-round talent and hoping for the best? Maybe in 3 to 4 years these guys will mature and lead us somewhere other than to the golf courses. And maybe that 21 year old up and coming goalie that half of this board longs for will not self-distruct. Let's hope that management sits back and hopes for the best, right? Screw being proactive and upgrading the roster; let's cross our fingers and hope for the best.
Well stated, the only reason I haven't expressed wanting this team to tank the last 15 games of the season is because I want to see Davis Payne back. Other than that, I'm hoping the Blues lose more than they win down the stretch and allow Minnesota, Dallas, and Anaheim to pass them. Winning these last games will do nothing in the long run if Payne is already going to be back. Moving up the draft board is much more important for the future of this team now.

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03-27-2010, 06:37 PM
  #42
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So...you don't want any goalie then...because they're inconsistent.

Vokoun is 2nd in save percentage, 2nd in shutouts, and 2nd in shots against. The last word I'd use to describe him is inconsistent. He's no doubt one of the league's 5 best, and is the only one in that group that is available.

I don't think the Blues have the intestinal fortitude to make the trade to acquire him...but you're lying to yourself if you think he's not worth his contract.
sorry, I was a big Vokoun fan when he was with the Preds but I think in the cap era he isnt enough of a sure thing to use up over 10% of your cap room. The problem is there really arent ANY tenders out there who can take a crappy team and make them a playoff contender. Vokoun hasnt got the Panthers in, just like Luongo couldnt.

The flipside of that is if you have a good team you dont need a 6 million dollar goalie. the Preds are gonna make it with Rinne, the Wings with Howard, the Avs with Anderson and the Yotes with Bryzgalov. So if I was your GM I'd get a good goalie for 3-4 mil(Harding, Mason, or even Dan Ellis, who would probably only cost 2 mil or so) and spend the extra 2-3 mil firming up soft spots in the skaters...

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03-27-2010, 06:44 PM
  #43
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sorry, I was a big Vokoun fan when he was with the Preds but I think in the cap era he isnt enough of a sure thing to use up over 10% of your cap room. The problem is there really arent ANY tenders out there who can take a crappy team and make them a playoff contender. Vokoun hasnt got the Panthers in, just like Luongo couldnt.

The flipside of that is if you have a good team you dont need a 6 million dollar goalie. the Preds are gonna make it with Rinne, the Wings with Howard, the Avs with Anderson and the Yotes with Bryzgalov. So if I was your GM I'd get a good goalie for 3-4 mil(Harding, Mason, or even Dan Ellis, who would probably only cost 2 mil or so) and spend the extra 2-3 mil firming up soft spots in the skaters...
You're right...crappy teams with great goaltending don't get very far.
But average teams with great goaltending (see '99 Sabres, '05 Hurricanes) can go pretty far. Great teams don't need great goaltending (see Detroit during the Osgood era) but it sure doesn't hurt (see Colorado w/Roy or New Jersey w/Brodeur).

So what am I getting at? As long as you don't have a garbage team, goaltending can be the wild-card and take you places. Unless you're saying the Blues are a garbage team, how could Vokoun not help? At the very worst an average team with a great goalie is a contender. At the very best, if they become an above-average to good team, they're a favorite.

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03-27-2010, 06:58 PM
  #44
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I feel like Vokoun shouldn't be our first choice. He would only be a temporary solution, if we could get Price, that'd be much more permenant.

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03-27-2010, 07:40 PM
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You're right...crappy teams with great goaltending don't get very far.
But average teams with great goaltending (see '99 Sabres, '05 Hurricanes) can go pretty far. Great teams don't need great goaltending (see Detroit during the Osgood era) but it sure doesn't hurt (see Colorado w/Roy or New Jersey w/Brodeur).

So what am I getting at? As long as you don't have a garbage team, goaltending can be the wild-card and take you places. Unless you're saying the Blues are a garbage team, how could Vokoun not help? At the very worst an average team with a great goalie is a contender. At the very best, if they become an above-average to good team, they're a favorite.
not being a blues fan I dont know what your biggest weaknesses are or how close you are to being solid everywhere else but goal.

Looking from outside, you missed the playoffs, and not just by a point or two, with Mason, who is average to good. Just replacing him with Vokoun would probably make you competitive for 8th, but not a lock, and certainly not a big threat to go deep. What I dont know is would his contract force you to leave holes in the lineup that need patching. And could you instead use the extra money from signing a cheaper goalie to fill some serious deficiencies in the lineup elsewhere. answer those questions and you'll know whether vokie is the answer or not..

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03-27-2010, 09:14 PM
  #46
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I'd say that paying $6 million per year for Vokoun (and giving up more player assets) wouldn't be as good as paying $4 million per year for Schneider or Harding, and helping to shore up the offence or defence, or paying $5 million for Halak or Price (and giving up a little less in player assets and having $1 million more in cap space)-especially if a high-priced forward like Kovalchuk or Marleau is sought. I'd be happy if any of those goalies are picked up. If Mason can be kept for $4 million for 2 years (which I doubt), and the extra room is used to sign Kovalchuk or Marleau, that would be okay with me.

Personally, I'd like to see a veteran 2-way defenceman picked up, Brewer jettisoned, an NHL-proven scoring forward picked up, AND an upgrade in goal acquired. That's a tall order,-but necessary.

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03-27-2010, 09:59 PM
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The fact that this thread even exists shows what an improvement Vokoun would be. We need better players...and the Blues aren't exactly luring premiere talent here via free agency (Kariya, McKee, Sydor, Conklin - colour me unimpressed) nor are they trading for them. If you've got the chance to land one of the 3 or 4 best goalies...why wouldn't you? Because he's too expensive? Too inconsistent?

And regarding the "tanking" idea...Yeah, how silly is it of me to think that the Blues would have been better off with Duchene instead of Rundblad? ...or Stamkos instead of Pietrangelo? ...afterall, making the playoffs last year really led to this young squad maturing by leaps and bounds. Who doesn't love the philosophy of drafting mid-round talent and hoping for the best? Maybe in 3 to 4 years these guys will mature and lead us somewhere other than to the golf courses. And maybe that 21 year old up and coming goalie that half of this board longs for will not self-distruct. Let's hope that management sits back and hopes for the best, right? Screw being proactive and upgrading the roster; let's cross our fingers and hope for the best.
**snipped**
That's cool man! I just felt like being a smarmy ass and you were the victim. ooops!!

Lalime just won his 200th NHL game. That's impressive, but I wouldn't want him on The Blues. However, it took him over 430 games to reach that plateau, so it makes it less impressive.

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03-28-2010, 12:19 AM
  #48
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I feel like Vokoun shouldn't be our first choice. He would only be a temporary solution, if we could get Price, that'd be much more permenant.
...if Price pans out that is. He likely will but the simple fact of the matter is that he, and guys like Schneider and even Harding aren't nearly as proven as Vokoun. I'm not saying the Blues should definitely try to trade for Vokoun but they should at least kick the tires and see what it would take. At the same time, they should continue to kick the tires with Schneider, Harding, Halak, Price, etc. If a deal can be made for one, great. It's all about finding a good trade and that incorporates a multitude of factors - how good the player is, how good he might be down the road, how likely it is he reaches that potential down the road, what it would take to get him in terms of assets (players/picks/prospects), how much he does or will cost in terms of salary, etc. and weigh those things against the same pros & cons for any other player that might be available. It's all about cost-benefit analysis. The bottom line is that the Blues need to be looking into all of these guys. If they're even available, what it would take to get them, etc. are things we can really only guess on unless anyone here actually has access to discussions between NHL GMs. No need to eliminate options.

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03-28-2010, 12:07 PM
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Jackman and a 2011 3rd rounder for Schneider and a 2011 6th rounder.

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03-28-2010, 12:50 PM
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Is goal tending our biggest issue or is it goal scoring?

****, we can't win at home. And we are blaming the goaltender? I mean really.... it is the goalies falt he is facing 20 shots in the 3rd period and that we are getting out played in a big way.

I think that is just plain stupid. Everyone wants Harding or Schneider.... But they are likely no better then Mason. He is a 2nd tier goalie - but they haven't even proven they are yet. ****, Schneider isn't even a proven NHL backup. Sorry, I would rather have the bird in hand then the two in the bush.

Price, Halak,.... Atleast there we are talking about guys who have proven more and at this time on the same tier as Mason.

But, maybe if we had a solid number 1 dman or kept pressure on the oposition in the 3rd period, we wouldn't even be talking about this.

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