Ice hockey is the 2nd most popular sport in europe with it being the most popular sport in Switzerland, Latvia, Kazakstan, Czech Republic, Sweden, Finland, Belarus and Russia and I would say its the 2nd most popular sport in Germany, Austria and Slovakia and in other countries it has become quite a popular sport like in Croatia, Slovenia, Norway and Denmark. So overall I would say that Ice Hockey by quite some distance is the 2nd most popular sport in europe
As we discussed above, I think you are wrong with this one. I agree with you regarding most of the other countries.
[QUOTE=frank16;25962094]Ice hockey is the 2nd most popular sport in europe with it being the most popular sport in Switzerland, Latvia, Kazakstan, Czech Republic, Sweden, Finland, Belarus and Russia
well, in switzerland is soccer the most popular sport 2. ice hockey.
i think, it's really realistic, that hockey is after soccer the most popular sport in europe. ice hockey is in the top 5 of the most europe countries ... which form of sport have the same ranking?
and about this pre-tournament, it's a good idea, but they have to change it after one or two years. they shouldn't have so many swedish and finish teams but rather the same number of each country, or else the tounament should take place in Scandinavia, then the most games would be sold out
Ok so in some of the countries I said it actually isnt the biggest sport but there are quite a few countries where it is actually the number 1 sport. The Nearest competetor to ice hockey for that number 2 spot is basketball which in my opininion is absolutely no where near as big as ice hockey in europe, there isn't one country in europe where it is the number 1 sport
Ok so in some of the countries I said it actually isnt the biggest sport but there are quite a few countries where it is actually the number 1 sport. The Nearest competetor to ice hockey for that number 2 spot is basketball which in my opininion is absolutely no where near as big as ice hockey in europe, there isn't one country in europe where it is the number 1 sport
Let's have a look at the number of organized players. Here you can see the IIHF numbers.
Just some of them from countries with (at least some) affinity for hockey:
Let's have a look at the number of organized players. Here you can see the IIHF numbers.
Just some of them from countries with (at least some) affinity for hockey:
total number of registered hockey players in those countries: 366,223
number of registered team handball players in Germany alone: 847,000
Case closed if you use participants numbers for your comparison.
And just to put this into perspective, that's how many members the DFB (organized soccer in Germany) has about: 6,700,000
I'm not comparing player wise because Hockey will lose everytime to ever other sport because hockey is alot harder to participate in due to a smaller amount of rinks and it being very expensive to play. Anyway I'm talking popularity as in crowds and media attention e.t.c and I dont think handball is as popular as basketball or hockey in europe
To end this conversation about which is bigger basketball or Ice Hockey i'm just simply going to go through every country in europe(I know bit sad) and say which one is bigger based on crowds and other sources of information(I dont know everyone so a couple will be guesses)
Albania= B
Austria= IH
Belarus= IH
Belgium= B
Bosnia & Herzegovina=B
Bulgaria= IH
Croatia= B
Czech Republic= IH
Denmark= IH
Estonia= Neither
Finland= IH
France= B
Georgia= B
Germany= IH
Greece= B
Hungary= IH
Iceland= Neither
Ireland= IH
Italy= B
Latvia= IH
Lithuania= B
Malta= Neither
Moldova= Neither
Montenegro= B
The Netherlands= IH
Norway= IH
Poland= Neither
Portugal= B
Romania= B
Russia= IH
Serbia= B
Slovakia= IH
Slovenia= Neither
Spain= B
Sweden= IH
Switzerland= IH
Ukraine= IH
United Kingdom= IH
Basketball= 14
Ice Hockey= 18
Neither= 6
Average attendances(top 9):
Ice Hockey:
1.Sweden -Elitserien: 6190
2.Switzerland - National League A: 6181
3.Deutschland - Deutsche Eishockey Liga : 5807
4.Russia - Kontinental Hockey League: 5474
5.Finnland - SM-liiga : 5240
6.Czech Republic - Extraliga: 4951
7.Austria - EBEL: 3301
8.Slovakia - Extraliga: 2364
9.UK - Elite Ice Hockey League: 2252
You obviously base your idea of "2nd biggest sport in Europe" on in how many countries it is 1st or 2nd. I don't think that's a good measurement. Also, the indicators aren't clear.
It's great that there is a lot of attention for hockey in Finland and Sweden, but after all, NRW alone has more inhabitants than those countries combined and Germany has more than three times as much inhabitants as the Nordic Countries.
You focus on the average numbers for the top leagues for your comperison and overlook the diversification of clubs and interest in them. For example, there are a few thousand more team handball clubs in Germany than icehockey clubs, so one could expect the crowd to be more widespread; especially since all hockey-, bball- and hball- clubs are a very regional thing. Though the top league basketball and team handball clubs don't reach DEL attendance numbers, they come closer to fill their (mosty smaller) arenas.
As for the media in Germany: There is only one icehockey periodical, while there are a few for basketball and team handball. Icehockey is only on pay-tv (which is way less popular than in other countries), while bball and hball are on free-tv.
And what about rugby and cricket in France and UK? And other non-team-sports?
My comparisons were just basketball vs Ice Hockey and not other sports because those are the only 2 sports in my mind which are competing for that 2nd spot. Rugby is very popular in France and England, cricket is popular in england but is non-existent in France. You can't really include other sports like tennis and golf in this discussion because they are international sports. Ice Hockey is the 2nd most popular sport in europe and I have proved it, if you believe that their is another sport bigger than Ice Hockey (except football) prove it to me
[...]basketball vs Ice Hockey [...] are the only 2 sports in my mind which are competing for that 2nd spot.
Then it might be time for you to broaden your mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank16
You can't really include other sports like tennis and golf in this discussion because they are international sports.
What?
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank16
Ice Hockey is the 2nd most popular sport in europe and I have proved it, if you believe that their is another sport bigger than Ice Hockey (except football) prove it to me
Where is the proof you talk of? That list you compiled of your subjective appraisal?
There are quite a few indicators one could use to compare the popularity of sports. You brought in the top level leagues average attendances and I already wrote my criticism about them.
Another point may be tv audience. I don't claim to know much about the situation in other countries, but I can give you some figures from Germany - as stated above a not so small portion of Europes population lives here.
The most watched sport broadcasts in Germany (average) in 2009.
From that list and without soccer broadcasts (total rank/sport/average viewers in million):
2 boxing 11,18
3 boxing 10,86
4 boxing 10,34
--------------------------- total population Chech Republic, Sweden
11 team handball 8,40
12 team handball 8,32
--------------------------- total population Switzerland
24 boxing 7,32
26 high jump 7,21
27 Formula One 7,16
32 running 6,92
34 running 6,83
36 team handball 6,64
38 ski jump 6,44
39 running 6,43
41 ski jump 6,38
42 Formula One 6,34
43 Formula One 6,33
46 Formula One 6,27
... (sure a few others)
...
------------------------------ total population Finland, Slovakia
This year WHC opener was watched by 1,15 mil. - a number, which was seen as extraordinary. With Germanys progress, the media created a hype which I have never seen before for icehockey around here that drew more and more non hockey fans to the tv, finalizing with 2,49 mil. in the semifinals match against Russia. So, the WHC was on free tv, there were media buzz and rarely seen before national team success and that is the number it reached.
This got pretty much OT - I guess there are already other threads to further discuss this.
The biggest T.V show in the UK and probably in the history of the UK averages 10million viewers so alot of people must watch t.v in germany. Look I cant comment about Germany because I don't live there and you do so you obviously know more about it than me, all I know is that the DEL has a lot higher average attendance than any other indoor league in Germany. I have alot of friends around europe and all I hear is about how big ice hockey is there and that is how I have made up my mind, I have also looked at the attendances and it is a fact that Ice Hockey as a whole has the best attendances on average for an indoor sport in europe. I also know people involved in sport around europe, some in football, rugby, golf, basketball and Ice Hockey and after discussing with them their sports and just general discussions it has become clear to me that Ice Hockey is the 2nd biggest sport in europe. That is my opinion and you are completely entitled to yours
Ok so in some of the countries I said it actually isnt the biggest sport but there are quite a few countries where it is actually the number 1 sport.
There are actually very few countries. In fact it's doubtful there is even one, outside Finland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank16
there isn't one country in europe where it is the number 1 sport
Lithuania.
Your reasoning is flawed anyway. Just because ice hockey is number one in three countries and basketball is not, it does not follow that ice hockey is a bigger sport, especially considering how insignificant those 3 countries are. I mean basketball might not be the number one sport in Spain but I'm pretty sure the number of bball fans in Spain dwarfs the number of hockey fans in Finland and Latvia and Belarus combined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank16
Average attendances(top 9):
Ice Hockey:
7.Austria - EBEL: 3301
8.Slovakia - Extraliga: 2364
9.UK - Elite Ice Hockey League: 2252
So ice hockey is not as popular in Slovakia as it is in Austria, and only marginally bigger than in the UK?
You obviously base your idea of "2nd biggest sport in Europe" on in how many countries it is 1st or 2nd. I don't think that's a good measurement. Also, the indicators aren't clear.
It is a terrible measurement. In most of the "IH countries", IH is only marginally bigger than BB, which still gets decent crowds and media attention.
Certainly the reverse is not true. In half of Europe there's hardly any hockey being played at all.
Just look at the attendance figures: Finland, a hockey country if there ever was one, still ranks 10th in Europe in terms of attendance for its basketball league. Conversely, how many fans in Greece would turn up for an ice hockey game?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjinswand
And what about rugby and cricket in France and UK?
As big as they are in these countries, they're non existent anywhere else.
Look guys I think Ice Hockey is the second biggest sport in europe and so many people who I talk to agree with me, in my mind basketball is definatly not as popular as ice hockey. This is my opinion and as I said before you are all entitled to yours. If you are going to try and say that a sport is bigger than Ice Hockey in europe(except football) then prove it
This seems to be a lost cause, since you seem to value opinions higher than facts and reasoning.
Here are some more numbers for tv broadcasts.
The IIHF celebrated estimated 650 mil. worldwide viewers for this years icehockey Word Championship (beforehand! Cumulated figures of the actual numbers were not given, indicating those were lower than they expected). This is for 56 matches.
This years team handball European Championship was cumulated watched by over one billion viewers - fewer than the last one, which reached 1,2 billion. That is for 47 matches.
This seems to be a lost cause, since you seem to value opinions higher than facts and reasoning.
Here are some more numbers for tv broadcasts.
The IIHF celebrated estimated 650 mil. worldwide viewers for this years icehockey Word Championship (beforehand! Cumulated figures of the actual numbers were not given, indicating those were lower than they expected). This is for 56 matches.
This years team handball European Championship was cumulated watched by over one billion viewers - fewer than the last one, which reached 1,2 billion. That is for 47 matches.
My opinions are based on facts. These viewing figures are not relevant to this conversation because I just looked and those viewing figures for the Handball are from around the world, as it says in the article "Overall, the tournament was broadcast in 85 territories –particularly in Europe, the Middle East and Asia", so these viewing figures are completely irrelevant. I bet you also that the Ice Hockey was broadcasted in alot less countries and also Ice Hockey isnt a good t.v sport so to be honest I wouldn't pay to much attention to the viewing figures of something
assumption 1:
Germany has a population of ~82 millions lets assume 60 millions of those would qualify "luge" as their favorite sport. In all the rest of Europe only another 2 millions would rate "luge" as their no. 1 sport.
assumption 2:
Only 1 million of Germany's population names ice hockey their no. 1 sport. In a dozen of other European countries ice hockey at least the countries second biggest sport or even number one. Yet the total of all those fans naming ice hockey their favorite sport would not exceed 40 millions....
conclusion? Would that make luge a bigger sport than ice hockey in Europe only because the one country with the biggest population draws so many fans?
You could argue in absolute numbers and yes - luge would be bigger - but frankly it would still just be a German sport and for sure not Europe's number one even if it was by absolute numbers.
conclusion? Would that make luge a bigger sport than ice hockey in Europe only because the one country with the biggest population draws so many fans?
As implied in my posts, I do think that absolute numbers should have weight in this discussion. A Englishman is as much European as a Slovak.
Besides, I haven't checked it, but I don't think a Danish hockey match was followed by more than the 2 mil. Danes, that watched the handball semifinal against Germany last year. That's 10 mil. Europeans watching it in those two countries alone. It's not like handball was an Germany exclusive sport, though it's surely most popular here, while being totally insignificant in some other and less popular in the rest of European countries.
The question of popularity in this case is a quite complex one. You can't single out one sole indicator and base your measurement on it (be it attendance, tv figures, number of participants, media attention, sales of club merchandise or whatever) imo.
I would say that basketball is 2nd popular sport in Europe as it's played in the whole continent as hockey really doesnt exist in big european countries like France, Spain and Italy. It really doesnt help that hockey is played professionally at high level in only 5-10 countries. Like said before in many countries were ice hockey is big, also basketball is considered as a "major" sport, like here in Finland.
And as basketball eurochamps were expanded to 24 teams, we now stand a great chance to qualify which surely would make bball even more popular here.
I would say that basketball is 2nd popular sport in Europe as it's played in the whole continent as hockey really doesnt exist in big european countries like France, Spain and Italy. It really doesnt help that hockey is played professionally at high level in only 5-10 countries. Like said before in many countries were ice hockey is big, also basketball is considered as a "major" sport, like here in Finland.
And as basketball eurochamps were expanded to 24 teams, we now stand a great chance to qualify which surely would make bball even more popular here.
How can you say hockey doesn't exist in france and Italy. Italy has 2 good standard leagues and the average attendance in their league is probably better than the average attendance for the basketball league in Finland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5F9K...eature=related
Look in my opinion Ice Hockey is the 2nd biggest sport in europe. The only countries where Ice Hockey really isn't played is the Iberian Peninsula, Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia, Albania and Greece and thats it. That is only 6 countries
The only countries where Ice Hockey really isn't played is the Iberian Peninsula, Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia, Albania and Greece and thats it. That is only 6 countries
That's 6 more than basketball then. Funny most of them are basketball hotbeds.
FYI, Serbia and Montenegro does not exist as a country any more. Also Serbia is better than Belgium, Bulgaria, Ireland (not to mention Turkey, which you have conveniently left out above) and only a couple of points adrift of Romania in the IIHF rankings.
That's 6 more than basketball then. Funny most of them are basketball hotbeds.
FYI, Serbia and Montenegro does not exist as a country any more. Also Serbia is better than Belgium, Bulgaria, Ireland (not to mention Turkey, which you have conveniently left out above) and only a couple of points adrift of Romania in the IIHF rankings.
Yeah sorry I left out Turkey as I didn't want to start off a debate. Anyway I bet ice hockey in Serbia and Turkey is no smaller than basketball in the UK
Turkey is not really a european country, but then again, I disagree with jekoh on other spheres too.
To make the statistics more accurate, why are you considering useless countries, in a useless argument on this number 2 spot of europe sport.
The pan european league will obviously involve clubs in established hockey cities or ones with realistic potential. There are certain places where people adore hockey where hockey is not popular for example Nottingham. The clubs participating will already be solid clubs from good hockey places, and hockey is therefore going to get more popular. Overall I think having a larger league with better and more high level competition/budget is a positive thing and will increase hockey in europe.
Imo there is no point to these crappy low level domestic leagues like Austria or France. Even leagues like DEL are not at all impressive. Germany has no real interest in hockey or talent because half of all the rosters including germay-2 are North Americans.
I think the best way to do things is like the champions league football. Where there are solid international franchises going head to head. Right now maybe clubs from Italy and DEL are boring to watch but over time it could be like Bayern-Inter, and would cause great interest.
This idea is btw a rip off from the Russians, and thats what Medvedev has been trying to implement with the KHL
Guys, Frank16 just clearly has no idea. It's one thing to discuss with a couple of friends what's popular in Europe, its another thing to actually know what is popular and what isn't through first hand experience.
There is almost no question that basketball is far more popular in Europe in general than ice hockey. There really isn't a comparison to be made. That's not to say that ice hockey doesn't have a following, but to make such an assertion is just plain wrong.
Frank16 can stay deluded if he wants though.
yunost - Thing, the reason why Bayern-Inter is so prestigious is because domestic leagues are strong in soccer. If Serie A and Bundesliga didn't have a history, the CL would be nothing. The reason soccer is so popular is because its a fabric of European culture. You can't just mix teams from different countries together and expect it to be a success.
Guys, Frank16 just clearly has no idea. It's one thing to discuss with a couple of friends what's popular in Europe, its another thing to actually know what is popular and what isn't through first hand experience.
There is almost no question that basketball is far more popular in Europe in general than ice hockey. There really isn't a comparison to be made. That's not to say that ice hockey doesn't have a following, but to make such an assertion is just plain wrong.
Frank16 can stay deluded if he wants though.
yunost - Thing, the reason why Bayern-Inter is so prestigious is because domestic leagues are strong in soccer. If Serie A and Bundesliga didn't have a history, the CL would be nothing. The reason soccer is so popular is because its a fabric of European culture. You can't just mix teams from different countries together and expect it to be a success.
Look guys I used to think basketball was bigger in Europe than Ice Hockey until a couple of years ago when I was told it wasn't by my dad. For the past 2-3 years my dad has been on the london 2012 olympic committee for GB handball. For those of you who don't know handball isn't played at all in Britain and about 90% of people don't actually know what handball is, anyway we(GB) have been trying to build a team by training people and sending them to camps in europe and other places. We are still very poor but seeing as we started from scratch I think we are doing well. Anyway my dad is involved in other sports in the UK so that is why they asked him to be involved in the Handball. When my Dad accepted he had no idea what the popularity was of handball so he asked, what the committee did was supply him with document that showed the popularity of all sports in every country, continent and the world, They also sent him to the European championships in 2008 ( I think it was in Norway?). Anyway on the document my dad recieved, in europe the team sports were ranked by popularity, these are the top 5 in order. Football, Ice Hockey, Basketball, Handball, Rugby. Do not ask me how they rank these because I have absolutely no idea but I guess they probably have some type of points system based on media coverage, attendance e.t.c. Call me deluded of whatever you want but I get my opinion on this subject from a source that actually knowsthe facts, you might think I'm lying about this but I swear to God I am not. If anyone on here knows anyone from anything to do with the olympics ask them about this and I am sure you willl get the same answer I got, Ice Hockey is the 2nd most popular sport in Europe
2. ice hockey.
