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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Seattle as reloaction destination?

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Old
04-02-2010, 06:58 PM
  #26
rojac
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Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Hockey fans in Seattle already cheer for one team or another, so why go there?
And that's pretty much true for anywhere the league might go. If there are hockey fans, they cheer for one NHL team or another -- for the most part.

Usually, such fans do one of three things:
  • Switch to the new local team.
  • Support the local team as a second team, cheering for them except when their number 1 team is involved.
  • Resent the new team and give them no support whatsoever.
And I think the first two choices are the most common. Look at Ottawa. Before the Senators, it was a city full of Leafs and Canadiens fans. And while the Sens have had their problems, that has been mainly due to mismanagement and not the fact that the hockey fan base already had teams.

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04-02-2010, 07:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
It's always baffled me why seattle didn't have a NHL team while cities like Columbus and Nashville did. Seattle is a no-brainer expansion city. The arena hurdle isn't *that* hard to overcome.
The arena hurdle is a big one in Seattle. Some anti corporate zealots made sure of it by making it near impossible for any government funding of a arena after they got a referendum on a ballot right after they spent a ******** of money on stadiums for the mariners and seahawks and the public passed it.

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04-04-2010, 05:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jonas1235 View Post
I think the NHL is better in cities like Columbus, Nashville and Carolina where the sporting marketplace is oversaturated. Seattle has a MLB, NFL and MLS team right now.

Portland would be a much better market.

But Portland doesnt have the money Seattle does.

Seattle is close to Vancouver, so a rivalry could happen there, the city of Seattle is more than financially viable, and its one of the most educated metros in the US.

The only problem is really an arena. With all the money in Seattle theres no reason there cant be at least one potential owner. Corporate sponsorship should not be an issue whatsoever in Seattle.

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04-04-2010, 05:24 PM
  #29
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What about Milwaukee too? dont the Admirals do well in the AHL?

Wisconsin is huge on hockey. That state deserves a team, and Chicago could use another rival.

Nashville Predators to Milwaukee?

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04-04-2010, 06:02 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirris View Post
The arena hurdle is a big one in Seattle. Some anti corporate zealots made sure of it by making it near impossible for any government funding of a arena after they got a referendum on a ballot right after they spent a ******** of money on stadiums for the mariners and seahawks and the public passed it.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that various levels of government are still paying for the construction of Qwest and Safeco (especially the latter, which came in well over budget) and there is no public will to put more money into pro sports facilities.

I maintain though, that in the long run, Seattle is one of the best remaining markets.

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04-04-2010, 06:07 PM
  #31
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What kind of support do the WHL teams get down in washington state?

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04-04-2010, 06:17 PM
  #32
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Did Seattle not lose the Sonics b/c of the lack of an arena? Where would they play?

Also, Thompson has never stated a desire to buy a team for Winnipeg. I think he's eying S.Ontario-GTA.

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04-04-2010, 06:36 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by azrick View Post
Did Seattle not lose the Sonics b/c of the lack of an arena? Where would they play?

Also, Thompson has never stated a desire to buy a team for Winnipeg. I think he's eying S.Ontario-GTA.
What are you saying ??? David Thomson owns most of a company called True North Entertainment that in return owns MTSC in Winnipeg and the land it sits on. The NHL (Bill Daly) just confirmed that Thomson and Chipman are looking to bring a team to Winnipeg !
Not Southern Ontario. That is speculation on your part...

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04-04-2010, 06:41 PM
  #34
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King County has 7 or 8 of the richest zip codes in the country. If the Sounders can be this massive of a hit no doubt a quality team like the Yotes would bring people in. Portland makes a lot more sense with regards to the arena,but there isnt enough room there for them and the Blazers probably(would love to see teams in both cities for a true pacific division makes more sense then Miami and Atlanta)

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04-04-2010, 09:31 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuy1985 View Post
What about Milwaukee too? dont the Admirals do well in the AHL?

Wisconsin is huge on hockey. That state deserves a team, and Chicago could use another rival.

Nashville Predators to Milwaukee?
I think Milwaukee would be great. The Bradley center already hosts the Badger Hockey Challenge, has hosted 3 Frozen Fours (last in 06) and can fit 17,800 fans.

If Phoenix returns to Winnipeg, I predict that sunshine teams will start dropping like flies. I'd love to see teams in Portland and Seattle but Seattle needs an arena first.

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04-05-2010, 10:36 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NYR Hockey Fan View Post
If Phoenix returns to Winnipeg, I predict that sunshine teams will start dropping like flies.
I really doubt that half a dozen owners are going to get out of bed that morning, read the headline "Coyotes Move To Winnipeg", and suddenly decide to move or sell their franchises.

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04-05-2010, 10:56 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I really doubt that half a dozen owners are going to get out of bed that morning, read the headline "Coyotes Move To Winnipeg", and suddenly decide to move or sell their franchises.
Agreed. Where would they go?

The arenas in Winnipeg and Hamilton might accomodate a team in the short term but both would require upgrades to current NHL standards.

QC's arena is probabaly evn less suitable with a capacity of 14,600, and there really is no other destination, is there?

Even if there were such alternatives, I still couldn't see that happening.

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04-05-2010, 12:32 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I really doubt that half a dozen owners are going to get out of bed that morning, read the headline "Coyotes Move To Winnipeg", and suddenly decide to move or sell their franchises.
Well, I wasn't saying immediately but you may see one team go the following year and maybe another 2 years later. Just look at the 90's. Once that first domino falls ...

1993 - Minnesota to Dallas
1995 - Quebec to Colorado
1996 - Winnipeg to Phoenix
1997 - Hartford to Carolina


Last edited by NYR Hockey Fan: 04-05-2010 at 01:59 PM.
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04-05-2010, 12:50 PM
  #39
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That's a good point.

Sure it's a different time and a dfferent economic situation now, but there's still an "economic situation" at work here nonetheless.

On second thoght, it's not as inconceivable as I had first thought.


Last edited by Hamilton Tigers: 04-06-2010 at 12:15 AM.
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04-05-2010, 04:59 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Hockey Fan View Post
I think Milwaukee would be great. The Bradley center already hosts the Badger Hockey Challenge, has hosted 3 Frozen Fours (last in 06) and can fit 17,800 fans.

If Phoenix returns to Winnipeg, I predict that sunshine teams will start dropping like flies. I'd love to see teams in Portland and Seattle but Seattle needs an arena first.
THE OTHER ISSUE, is where do you move the Milwaukee Admirals to, if an existing franchise moves into a market, and Milwaukee, is like Houston, already has its identity w/ the current pro team, not to mention, Milwaukee is cross-promoted w/ the Brewers & have a stake in both franchises

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04-05-2010, 06:36 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
THE OTHER ISSUE, is where do you move the Milwaukee Admirals to, if an existing franchise moves into a market, and Milwaukee, is like Houston, already has its identity w/ the current pro team, not to mention, Milwaukee is cross-promoted w/ the Brewers & have a stake in both franchises
Chris, I'll try to explain this to you again, as has been explained to you many times.

The AHL team's existence is a non-factor when it comes to the location of an NHL team in ANY arena. Even if the arena managers were to own the AHL team in question, an NHL team would unquestionably bring in more lease revenue for the facility owners/managers than an AHL lease ever could. Either the AHL team's lease with the existing arena already has a clause sweeping the AHL team aside if an NHL team comes, or the arena management would fall over themselves in the rush to pay off the remaining years on the lease... or they would simply give the priority dates to the NHL team, leaving the AHL team with a substandard schedule and no real choice in the matter but to find a place themselves to move.

Kindly stop trying to say that ANY market can't have an NHL team move into it just because of the existence of an AHL team. AHL teams are gnats to brush aside, as far as all parties are concerned, if an NHL team tenancy is a possibility.

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04-06-2010, 11:13 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NYR Hockey Fan View Post
Well, I wasn't saying immediately but you may see one team go the following year and maybe another 2 years later. Just look at the 90's. Once that first domino falls ...

1993 - Minnesota to Dallas
1995 - Quebec to Colorado
1996 - Winnipeg to Phoenix
1997 - Hartford to Carolina
Except it's not really a domino effect. The situations above were not connected, and I've never seen any evidence that their situations were mutually influential. Like other relocations, they were each due to a unique set of circumstances that involved various arena disputes, referendums, failed deals and so forth.

To some extent there might have been a tipping-point in regard to the legacy of tiny WHA markets still persisting in an un-capped league with spiraling operating costs. In the broader scheme of the pro sports industry as a whole, that writing had been on the wall for a long time. But I don't think that the current situation -- a hard-capped league which has made some poor ownership decisions in very large, potentially-profitable expansion markets -- is one which implies a tipping-point situation. As we see over in the Dallas thread, just because one franchise has trouble finding local ownership doesn't mean that they all will.

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04-06-2010, 04:14 PM
  #43
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Would love to see a suitable arena built and the Seattle Mets come back with the Hartford/Thunderbird color scheme.

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04-06-2010, 05:03 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NJrocket24 View Post
Would love to see a suitable arena built and the Seattle Mets come back with the Hartford/Thunderbird color scheme.
The Metropolitans were a PCHA team, not NHA/L ... still, they were the first American team to hoist Lord Stanley's cup.

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04-06-2010, 07:51 PM
  #45
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There are at least a dozen places, I think, that can work when it comes to an NHL franchise. Places like Seattle, Portland, Houston, Sacramento, Kansas City, Las Vegas, a place in Wisconsin, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Toronto, and Quebec City all can make arguments to their viability.

The reality is that something has to happen to an existing franchise to get a real opportunity. The Coyotes franchise is a possibility but it is currently running through the process. I think in that specific case, Winnipeg will get first crack and likely come through if it gets that far.

Past that, I just don't see circumstances dictating that a team will be moving anytime soon. Might see expansion and I think two of those cities will see teams but I think the way it is now will continue for at least another ten years.

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04-06-2010, 08:00 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
There are at least a dozen places, I think, that can work when it comes to an NHL franchise. Places like Seattle, Portland, Houston, Sacramento, Kansas City, Las Vegas, a place in Wisconsin, Hamilton, Winnipeg, Toronto, and Quebec City all can make arguments to their viability.

The reality is that something has to happen to an existing franchise to get a real opportunity. The Coyotes franchise is a possibility but it is currently running through the process. I think in that specific case, Winnipeg will get first crack and likely come through if it gets that far.

Past that, I just don't see circumstances dictating that a team will be moving anytime soon. Might see expansion and I think two of those cities will see teams but I think the way it is now will continue for at least another ten years.

A little OT, but I just wanted to add that I would be very curious as to how successful an NHL team would do in houston. I have colleagues in that area, and hockey is pretty popular actually. I feel it may do ok. Huge population base too. Does houston have an appropriate arena?

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04-06-2010, 08:11 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Doug Smail View Post
A little OT, but I just wanted to add that I would be very curious as to how successful an NHL team would do in houston. I have colleagues in that area, and hockey is pretty popular actually. I feel it may do ok. Huge population base too. Does houston have an appropriate arena?
Yes they do. The Toyota Center is hockey ready and the Houston Aeros play and succeed there. If Les Alexander still has interest in the NHL, the Houston area has everything you'd want from a market.

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04-06-2010, 08:11 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Doug Smail View Post
A little OT, but I just wanted to add that I would be very curious as to how successful an NHL team would do in houston. I have colleagues in that area, and hockey is pretty popular actually. I feel it may do ok. Huge population base too. Does houston have an appropriate arena?
Yup - the Toyota Center (opened 2003), currently home of the NBA Houston Rockets & AHL Houston Aeros - and conveniently controlled by the owner of the Rockets (Les Alexander) who came within hours of buying the Oilers in '98.

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04-06-2010, 08:43 PM
  #49
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Yup - the Toyota Center (opened 2003), currently home of the NBA Houston Rockets & AHL Houston Aeros - and conveniently controlled by the owner of the Rockets (Les Alexander) who came within hours of buying the Oilers in '98.

Very interesting. I like the fact that texans appreciate hockey. I frequent Houston, and would go to games if this were to ever happen. Thanks for the info. Sorry to be OT.

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04-06-2010, 08:51 PM
  #50
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How close did Houston come to owning the Oilers?

Hours, literally.

There was a midnight deadline that barely got made.

The Puck Stops Here

Quote:
This gift of public funds came with a catch: for the next 10 years, if the entrepreneur wanted to sell the club, and if a local group could commit to a purchase price of US$70 million within 30 days, the team would be sold locally regardless of whether a better bid was available from someone who wished to move it. If no local money came forward, Pocklington was free to sell to the highest bidder.

The Texan had triggered the 30-day clock. Local investors now had one month to put up a US$5-million nonrefundable deposit after which they would have less than two months to pay the remaining US$65 million. As Nichols admits, "That really pushed us to get moving." Pennock's due diligence indicated that Baum's projections were indeed correct: EIG members now knew that, should they purchase the team, they had a good shot to at least break even for the 1998/99 season - their first year behind the bench.
...
On the 29th day of the 30-day clock, Butler ushered the investors into his firm's boardroom at Bryan & Co. in downtown's ManuLife Place. The group - which now numbered between 25 and 30 members - had to decide whether to go ahead with the nonrefundable US$5-million deposit. Suddenly, the lights went out throughout the building. About a minute later they came back on. Jim Hole, EIG chairman and former president of the CFL's Edmonton Eskimos, still savours what happened next. "I took my time opening my eyes," he recalls. "But everybody was still there."

"We kind of laughed and looked at each other," says Woods. But there was a deal to assemble and a few wrinkles that needed ironing out. "We had to have it done by midnight," he continues, "but there were a bunch of things that had to be done between ATB and Pocklington that went a couple of hours over. Fortunately, it didn't affect the deal between ourselves and the team." (By this time, ATB had effectively taken over the financial running of the team as a way to protect its asset.)


Last edited by LadyStanley: 04-06-2010 at 09:22 PM. Reason: edit for dp
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