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3/28 Daily Discussion Thread - Where did Risebrough go wrong?

View Poll Results: Where did Risebrough go wrong?
Not signing any big-name free agents 0 0%
Letting top players walk away for nothing 1 11.11%
Bad drafting and development 4 44.44%
Not making a trade for that extra piece 1 11.11%
Other (please explain) 4 44.44%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-28-2010, 01:55 PM
  #1
GopherState
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3/28 Daily Discussion Thread - Where did Risebrough go wrong?

At one point, Dougie Ballgame's five year plan to build a Stanley Cup contender. While the Wild were able to achieve some success and be a top expansion club with help of Risebrough and Jacques Lemaire, that five-year plan never really came to fruition and eventually the club was left in the mess which it is in now.

So the question for today is where did Risebrough go wrong in his vision and what moves could he have made (or not made) to take the Wild to the next level?

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03-28-2010, 02:11 PM
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Dr Jan Itor
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Although all of the options probably apply in some way, the only one that he had COMPLETE control over is drafting and development. You can't force FA signings or big trades, but scouting, player assessment and drafting are all within the realm of a GM's control. Granted, no GM is perfect, but this team couldn't afford the Thelens, Sheppards and lack of mid to later round picks that couldn't see an nhl shift.

Hopefully this is an area that GMCF excels in.

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03-28-2010, 02:35 PM
  #3
BigT2002
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I went other namely because of how the first option was worded. DR allowed the players to dictate their own market value and procrastinated the signings until they were basically at high end of their value.

Example(s):

Gaborik circa 2003. We already knew Marian was going to be our "go to scorer" since he was signed in the 1st round. So when the 2002-2003 season began (our miracle playoff rounds), it should have been a no brainer to try to sign Gaborik to at least a 8 year deal with it the asking price around $6.5M/yr. If the signing would have happened before the offseason (like he waited), it was almost a shoe in that Gaborik would have taken the contract. Instead, he helps pull off some of those huge playoff games and then holds out through the beginning of the 2003-2004 season because he wants more money since he is so instrumental in the team.

Backstrom last year. Need I say more with that contract??

You can't sign high profile players if you don't have the cap room to get them signed for what they want off the FA board. However, waiting till the FA period to even sign your own players is equally as damaging to your salary cap. DR did both


Last edited by BigT2002: 03-28-2010 at 02:43 PM.
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03-28-2010, 03:07 PM
  #4
GopherState
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Yeah I wasn't entirely sure how to phrase the first option given there are a few different ways to deal with free agency.

Another thing to remember about the first Gaborik deal was that it was at a point where there was no salary cap. Risebrough didn't have to fit everyone under a set amount of money (both short and long-term) and had more of an arbitrary budget.

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03-28-2010, 03:35 PM
  #5
thestonedkoala
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DR did multiple things wrong that ended up in one huge cluster**** of a screw up.

Essentially one thing led to another to another. By the time he got fired, it was fairly obvious he had to go.

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03-28-2010, 05:46 PM
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I might get flamed for this but I think that DR was a good expansion GM solely based on the fact he hired Lemaire. Lemaire made us competetive almost too fast. He is such a great coach but I would argue that he is a great coach for veteran players. I don't think he is a coach that is able to develop players. I'm not saying that he doesn't develop some good players but I don't think he is an ideal coach to have for a young team...but this isn't about Lemaire.



DR failed especially post-lockout. He did not understand that the economics changed...draft picks became such a huge asset and he traded them away for nothing, or never obtained more by letting UFAs go.

Draft picks are essentially the currency for a NHL franchise in my opinion. You use them to draft players, stockpile talent, then use that talent to obtain missing pieces via trades for proven players, prospects at different positions or more draft picks to keep the cycle going. You hardly see free agency being the tool that adds to the core of the group. In fact, free agency is really the tool that allows a franchise to add veterans and depth to a team that already has a strong core.

And, to me, DR became too close-minded that he wasn't willing to change with the times. He just "failed to manage expectations" which really came off as an excuse from an arrogant guy that couldn't admit he was no longer directing the Wild into a annually competetive team.

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03-28-2010, 05:59 PM
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He was a very good expansion GM. You can't argue with the success that they achieved early on. Eventually they stopped being an expansion team and had real expectations. Their progression stalled, some by his doing, some not, and most of his mistakes (drafting, cap mgmt, getting no value for lost players) all came to a head around the same time.

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03-28-2010, 09:31 PM
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A combo of the following would be my picks:

I think he failed for poor management of assets. Swapping away picks to move up a spot here or there flew in the face of what he was claiming to do. Letting premium guys walk for nothing is another example.

I think impatience would be another flaw. The Wild had some unexpected success making it to the conference Finals, and DR lost track at that point. Making a deal like he did for Demitra, top prospect in O'Sullivan and a first, was way to early in the franchise's history. The system didn't have the depth necessary to recover, especially with the unfruitful drafts to follow.

Blame Lemaire. With the rosters he was given, this team was way better than it should have been too soon, costing us the better draft picks that would have laid a better foundation.

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03-28-2010, 10:49 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocksta18 View Post
I might get flamed for this but I think that DR was a good expansion GM solely based on the fact he hired Lemaire. Lemaire made us competetive almost too fast. He is such a great coach but I would argue that he is a great coach for veteran players. I don't think he is a coach that is able to develop players. I'm not saying that he doesn't develop some good players but I don't think he is an ideal coach to have for a young team...but this isn't about Lemaire.



DR failed especially post-lockout. He did not understand that the economics changed...draft picks became such a huge asset and he traded them away for nothing, or never obtained more by letting UFAs go.

Draft picks are essentially the currency for a NHL franchise in my opinion. You use them to draft players, stockpile talent, then use that talent to obtain missing pieces via trades for proven players, prospects at different positions or more draft picks to keep the cycle going. You hardly see free agency being the tool that adds to the core of the group. In fact, free agency is really the tool that allows a franchise to add veterans and depth to a team that already has a strong core.

And, to me, DR became too close-minded that he wasn't willing to change with the times. He just "failed to manage expectations" which really came off as an excuse from an arrogant guy that couldn't admit he was no longer directing the Wild into a annually competetive team.
No, I agree 100%. He set up the groundwork well right before the lockout however failed to do much of anything right after. He made some moves after the lockout to show he was serious about contending (the Demitra trade to complement Gaborik and Johnsson signing in free agency) but did everything half-ass where the asset management was just shot. Between poor drafts, bad use of cap space, not making the best use of free agency (i.e. Mark Parrish) and never making that last move during the trade deadline or selling when needed (every deadline made Wild fans feel like a Jewish kid on Christmas), the team was just left to be mediocre and hoping to overachieve. It felt like Risebrough just didn't understand the new NHL and never was able to build a team which was either building for the future or contending now. At least now with Fletcher I feel like he is building a vision for the future and sifting through the remnants of the previous era.

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03-29-2010, 01:03 AM
  #10
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I wish i could have voted for all of the above.

He never choose a path is my biggest concern. We are future oriented. Good. Then why trade a first, O'Sullivan, Jones, picks to move up. All those say the time is now. Great. get Demo and Zidliski, sign Johnsson, Parrish, and add who at the trade dead line again? Before all that. Let Brunno go because its time for the youth to step up. Not keep a good player at a great price.

He never totally committed to youth or to putting everythig into a few great years.

Drafting a select player to fill a role. Sheppard, Burns, Gillies all big two way guys with ability. Only Burns panned out. But you knew who he was going to pick. Every team has its poor drafts. Clutterbuck was a great find and so was...?

He stuck to old ways. he offered what he thought was fair market value and did not over pay. when the market is to over pay. That is now market value. The year we won the conference. The going rate was a first and a top prospect for a trade dead line help. We parted with neither and lost in the first round.

Signing Backstrom. Great. We now have a multi million dollar garage and nothing to put into it. Trade him and let Harding take over and re-build. Instead we just got our seleves stuck in the middle again.

In the end. we do not have an abundance of youth, or superstars. Not tons of cap room. No extra picks for the future. The youth we do have have not been in the play offs.

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03-29-2010, 03:46 AM
  #11
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Riser's problem was he was afraid to gamble.

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03-29-2010, 10:23 AM
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The biggest problem is obviously the drafting and development, trading away too many picks and trading up to get picks. He had very good success at the beginning, but he began to just keep going on trading picks away like crazy, making it impossible to be super competitive with the salary cap.

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03-29-2010, 10:31 AM
  #13
BigT2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
The biggest problem is obviously the drafting and development, trading away too many picks and trading up to get picks. He had very good success at the beginning, but he began to just keep going on trading picks away like crazy, making it impossible to be super competitive with the salary cap.
And where did that issue come into play? By paying above market value for players who either were coming off of low end type years and he made the push to get them on the team hoping they would do better on the "scoring line instead of the checking line" type mentality. Demitra and even Rolston were worth that much??

Lets also not forget his lame duck approach at the trade deadline. His "big push" for the 2006 playoffs was to get Chris Simon??

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03-29-2010, 11:12 AM
  #14
Surly Furious
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
He never totally committed to youth or to putting everythig into a few great years.
This kind of sums it up; he didn't have the patience to do it right, and tried to cut corners and accelerate the process, and ended up doing neither thing well.

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03-29-2010, 11:29 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
I wish i could have voted for all of the above.

He never choose a path is my biggest concern. We are future oriented. Good. Then why trade a first, O'Sullivan, Jones, picks to move up. All those say the time is now. Great. get Demo and Zidliski, sign Johnsson, Parrish, and add who at the trade dead line again? Before all that. Let Brunno go because its time for the youth to step up. Not keep a good player at a great price.

He never totally committed to youth or to putting everythig into a few great years.

Drafting a select player to fill a role. Sheppard, Burns, Gillies all big two way guys with ability. Only Burns panned out. But you knew who he was going to pick. Every team has its poor drafts. Clutterbuck was a great find and so was...?

He stuck to old ways. he offered what he thought was fair market value and did not over pay. when the market is to over pay. That is now market value. The year we won the conference. The going rate was a first and a top prospect for a trade dead line help. We parted with neither and lost in the first round.

Signing Backstrom. Great. We now have a multi million dollar garage and nothing to put into it. Trade him and let Harding take over and re-build. Instead we just got our seleves stuck in the middle again.

In the end. we do not have an abundance of youth, or superstars. Not tons of cap room. No extra picks for the future. The youth we do have have not been in the play offs.
It was a multiple-choice poll. Still agree with you on Risebrough though outside of the complete rebuild, but that's a matter of philosophy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
And where did that issue come into play? By paying above market value for players who either were coming off of low end type years and he made the push to get them on the team hoping they would do better on the "scoring line instead of the checking line" type mentality. Demitra and even Rolston were worth that much??

Lets also not forget his lame duck approach at the trade deadline. His "big push" for the 2006 playoffs was to get Chris Simon??
I thought Rolston was a fair market deal given Risebrough paid $2.5 million for a guy who averaged fifty-five points the previous three seasons.

Also, Simon was the jewel of the 2008 postseason run, but that's just picking at typos.

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03-30-2010, 07:54 AM
  #16
BigT2002
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
I thought Rolston was a fair market deal given Risebrough paid $2.5 million for a guy who averaged fifty-five points the previous three seasons.

Also, Simon was the jewel of the 2008 postseason run, but that's just picking at typos.
Touche good sir.

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03-30-2010, 12:48 PM
  #17
North Metro Peewees
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I remember watching the '06 draft on TV and minutes before the trade was made to acquire Demitra he was interviewed by TSN and stated he was looking to acquire a scorer for the 17th overall pick because he didn't need any more young players. That statement alone should tell you what was wrong with DR.

Honestly how much better would this team be with O'Sullivan and another prospect from that draft. What compounded this screw up was he could have had Demitra the previous summer as a UFA and chose to sit on the sidelines and do nothing!

I will say it would be pretty cool if DR becomes the next GM of the Rangers then he and Gabby will be stuck with each other finishing between 6th and 10th in the East for years to come.

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